What happened to our medical system?

I think our doctors have turned into drug pushers. That's always their solution another drug that doesn't cure anything but you have to take it, perhaps even for life and it treats only the symptoms. In essence they create another drug client for big pharma. What happened? This is the 21st century the age of computers, information systems and technologies that should have created something more than what we have. Advanced research must have been suppressed. I can't even imagine a health system that really worked by making people healthy, instead ours has invested interest in keeping people sick. And to make it worst they keep expanding and hardening the medical field to its present condition. It doesn't make sense.


Now I don't presume to have any answers or any real knowledge in the medical field but I wanted to create this thread to list some thoughts and ideas floating around in the ether.

What happened to:

ALKALINTY AND ACIDIC treatment: It is known most pathogens need an acidic environment in your body to survive. So why don't we have information on how to create and maintain an internal balance that is beneficial to us(alkaline) and not pathogens? Where is the information on food and drugs and how they effect the PH levels and why is it never considered or even talked about when someone is ill?

OXIDATION treatment: It is known that various molecules of oxygen(not the beneficial form our bodies need) can bind to pathogens and various cells. So where is the research and implementation of this? Designer oxygen molecules to disable pathogens perhaps. Or oxygen molecule injections right into cancer. And why don't they inject cancer directly with drugs or bacteria or viruses that kill it? They have no problem putting Botox in someones face.

HEALING and REJUVENATION treatment: Our bodies have a natural healing capacity so why don't we hear or have information on how to promote and speed it? We take drugs to stop negative symptoms but shouldn't we be taking drugs to heal the problem? This should be a huge field of study, but we continue to focus on the symptoms. And what of rejuvenation, Some animals can rejuvenate, well how do they do it? Where's the research and information on this? Many people need this research. For example if someone has diabetes they take insulin for the rest of their life. Do they ever undergo treatment to regain function of their pancreas?, No. Why not? They say every cell in your body is replaced throughout seven years, so theoretically rejuvenation shouldn't take more then that.

VIBRATION treatment: Scientists have no problem in visualizing everything in the universe as being waves and forms of vibrations, but were is their research on how these vibrations affect and interact with our bodies? This is an area that is shunned by the medical field. Doesn't make sense. It is science in its purest form. Another vast area of study, but what happened? We could have external devices that promote healing or inhibit tumor growth. Would understand the internal vibrational complexities.

EVOLUTION treatment: Well if evolution is true shouldn't we be able to create an artificial environment that promotes various attributes?

DIVINE treatment: Its been said that 'all healing comes from the divine.' You may say that it sounds religious but it does not have to be with scientific research.


Some of this may sound weird, but I mean well.

Please add your thoughts and ideas.


[edit on 27-3-2009 by WintersHere]

Im not going to comment at length on the alternative approaches. Many work, but others have alot of hidden dangers. That being said, if a patient beleives in them, and they cause no harm, its important to thier spiritual well being which can help.

What happened to medicine IMHO:

1) The lawyers have run amuk. The amount of paperwork required is onerous. Now MD run all sorts of tests and procedures out of fear they will be sued if they do not rule out something or miss something. The aards some juries give out are outrageous. Im not say bad MD's should be protected, but many good ones get sued for no reason.

2) Lack of insurance: ER have become the clinics for the poor and the uninsured. Thus overloading the system. Give them insurance and get them regular well appointments. An ounce of prevention

3) Direct marketing to patients. By all means you need to be informed, but drug companies are bypassing the traditional gatekeepsers: MD's and going directly to the patients. We have all seen the comercials for medications. many hospitals have basically kicked drug companies off the premisies. The 3 week vacations for MD's with a 30 minute lecture for some new drug are the thing of the past at many cneters. Now drugs have to be approved by a group not individual MD's.

4) Personal responsability and unrealistic expectations: You go into the OR and things do not always go textbook. Medicine is an art as much as a science. Stuff happens and its not always the MD's fault.

reply to post by WintersHere


The History of Medicine:

"Doctor, I have an earache."

2000 B.C. - "Here, eat this root."
1000 B.C. - "That root is heathen, say this prayer."
1850 A.D. - "That prayer is superstition, drink this potion."
1940 A.D. - "That potion is snake oil, swallow this pill."
1985 A.D. - "That pill is ineffective, take this antibiotic."
2000 A.D. - "That antibiotic is artificial and ineffectual. Here, eat this root!"

What happened to our medical system?

It was monetized for profit by Nixon and Kaiser Soze I mean Henry Kaiser.
Yes, all the people who have died, not being able to afford medical treatment.
Murdered, by Nixon and Kaiser Soze.

What largely happened is that the pharmeceutical industry is now in control of the medical industry. Largely they are the ones who write the text books the doctors learn from in school. Doctors stopped being taught nutritional health and cures in the 50's and now ALL they are trained to do is to prescribe drugs and perform surgeries. Doctors are not taught any plant or vitamin treatments, even though off the top of my head i could list you common cheap and effective treatments for most of our standard illnesses and im not a doctor. This is largely what happens in unfettered monopolism with no regulations, the bottom line is the dollar, and everything is sacrificed for the shareholders profits. Allopathic medicine (western med) has not cured anything since small pox, and

ALL their aims are, as you said, at controlling symptoms. Naturopathy, on the other hand, is a vibrant and growing field, containing ALL modalities, from acupuncture and herbs to yes, even pharmacology, and their focus is always on treating and curing the CAUSE, NOT masking symptoms. The problem with treating symptoms, as regular docs do....is that in diseases like say...diabetes for example. When the symptoms are controlled, people go on to continue eating things containing sugar, thinking all they have to do is take insulin. This, however, causes the sugar to continue destroying their system...they just dont feel the effects until its is catastrophic. Sure makes a lot of money for the industry, though!

I have to say that in my opinion, what happened was that the medical arts became institutionalized. Along with that came the hierarchical classist crap, the elite mentality, and the utter abandonment of of the paradigm of 'healing'.

Now it's about such abstract concepts as sustainability, efficiency and liability.

The turning point was heralded by the decision to 'stop' doctors from visiting their patients. They claim liability as the reason. The real reason was to force the patients to line up at industrialized practices, because it's more profitable.

The medical higher education system failed. That's what went wrong. For every 10,000 doctors in the country, a dozen or so actually 'feel' for their patients. And those are the "unsuccessful" ones.

What has happened to Western Medicine is the same thing that has happened to Big Government...there is a push for Power, and in Medicines case the POWER is MONEY.

Western Medicine is a BUSINESS plain and simple. They would be cutting their own throats if they CURED anything. Keep the masses sick, so they keep coming back...period.

Overloading the system? I think not. Most of us that are un-insured, will hold out seeking medical help if we can, until it DOES become an emergency...only to go to an ER and not even see a doctor, but a PA who won't even examine us past shining a light down our throats or in our ears or eyes, order a few labs (blood tests) and then dismiss us with a diagnosis of something we already knew we had, never even listening to what the original purpose of our visit was.

Their parting words..."Follow up with your Primary Physician"...Great, if you can get Insurance in the first place (some conditions pre existing will make you uninsurable unless you can afford the highest of premiums)

You get no help at the ER, but you will pay...again the power of MONEY, and nothing really was done.

The ideas of body Alkaline/Acid balance is one that does work...but again, only a doctor trained in naturopathy and homeopathy can use the methods effectively. Eastern Medicine can work as well, but again these approaches will not guarantee the BIG BUCKS because a patient will get better.

Its all about the MONEY.


~Holly

Simple. It is for profit. This is what happens when you leave something critical like the population's health to companies that want to make money.

I agree with all of you. Another victim to the worship of the almighty dollar.
Now what can we do? Its right to let this go on forever.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Simple. It is for profit. This is what happens when you leave something critical like the population's health to companies that want to make money.

I agree that money and profit is the most important thing to pharm companies and a lot of people in health industry in general. And it creates a lot of problems,ethical and functional. But the problem is that no alternative ever worked better or even just as effective as current dysfunctional one.
i live in a country where government-controlled medical insurance exists and it is run by non-profit (by definition) insurance companies. And there are a lot of problems too, corruption and inadequate treatment due to costs is very very common. Rule of the thumb actually. Of course it has a lot of benefits for individual and society but overall it is not much more effective.
And if you speak about total government control, then it is always worse. USSR, Cuba,N.Korea and few others had (have) such a system and it failed to provide expensive treatments and even less-expensive but technologically complicated approaches were not possible.
You have to understand that in planned economy person who does not produce anything (and one that lives on pension especially) is a total liability. no profit,only loss. So long life span is not the objective. Usually quality of life is also ignored for financial reasons. As long as individual is productive there is n reason to invest in his health. So generally such a systems provide cheap but only partially effective solutions.

But as far as pharma companies stand, senior citizen is money bag so if he lives longer he will pay them more. Quality of life is also important to people who will spend money on this. So this approach gives very efficient health system but very expensive one too. With cheap but effective drugs less available. So there is no answer what is better. but later at least gives you freedom to choose your treatments.

zeroknowledge, that is not entirely true. In fact, in our american system, most people have no freedom to choose their treatments, as treatments are largely dictated by their insurance companies, and most insurance companies cover very little alternative health therapies if any. Further, freedom is limited by education, and the majority of americans are spoon fed misinformation daily about health treatment through vitamins or herbs, with constant flawed studies being aired on the news of how this herb causes cancer, or that vitamin is ineffective for disease. Indeed, we have a massive push right now through lobbyists and the AMA to take away americans freedoms to buy and use herbs vitamins, and supplements unless given prescription by an MD, and as MD's are uneducated in the use of such, that will massively damage any education or therapeutic use of said medicines and treatments.

further, i dont see how you can say no alternative has worked better, or as well, as existing ones, as the US is ranked 47th in healthcare, though we pay twice as much per capita as the rest.....meanwhile, all 46 of the countries ranked above us (by standards such as infant mortality, life expectancy, rates of disease, etc) ALL have free and social healthcare. What that means is that almost EVERY industrialized nation has an alternative form of health care that works better than our "for profit" system.

reply to post by pexx421

Insurance companies limit the choices - true. Government limit them even more since there is no competition.
US is 45th at life expectancy and it says a lot about its health care. So might be wrong about most effective. Still, profit search and competition raises quality. Of course lowers availability. Once again, balance in between two is the answer.
Take into account that money for this program will come from people's pockets. Military expenditures will not be cut due to lobbies and such. Taxes in countries with social health care are usually higher too.
Saying all that, i decided that i am a hypocrite since i rather live with my system and yet advocate another. So consider for yourself.

Your FDA requires hundreds of millions of dollars of testing on new drugs before they are patented and brought to the market place. Yes I understand we want the drugs to be safe for the public's useage.

Medical conglomerates have bought up hospitals and are charging more money for the services. Illegal immigrants using emergency room services that they do not pay for have stretched the medical community to the limits and you and I have to pay for their useage of the hospitals one way or the other by higher prices for our medical coverage and use.

When Nationalized medicine takes place I look for the U.S. doctors to leave their practices by the droves. One reason would be they will make less money and secondly if they make over $250,000 per year they will be in a much higher tax bracket. Look for doctors to cut back their hours to 3 days a week to stay under the $250,000 threshhold of heavier taxation by obama.

Look for doctors and foreign nurses to locate to the U.S. especially from India and Pakistan to fill the void by nurses and doctors quiting their jobs due to government controlled medical care and lower wages. Can you say long lines to recieve medical care with your socialist government in charge. Could it get to where your socialistic government chooses whether you live or die when it comes to your medical condition and the cost of your medical care? How about those who have no medical coverage today? I do not see the hopitals ever turning them away.



[edit on 27-3-2009 by amari]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


A portion of that can actually be offset because the amount of paperwork that the private sector generates would be eliminated in a national system. And of course there are a lot of other middlement that can be cut out as well.

Well the thread didn't turn out how I wanted it too. My fault. I was hoping it would be a little more idealistic. Like rant a little about what happened to the medical system, then list what we are missing out on, or what we need. Thanks for responding though, I should of been more clear.

reply to post by WintersHere


Perhaps but it spawned an interesting discussion nonetheless

Many Hospital systems are not for profit ventures, but there are no pharma companies that are not for profit. Is that a feasable option?

Originally posted by WintersHere





OXIDATION treatment: It is known that various molecules of oxygen(not the beneficial form our bodies need) can bind to pathogens and various cells. So where is the research and implementation of this? Designer oxygen molecules to disable pathogens perhaps. Or oxygen molecule injections right into cancer. And why don't they inject cancer directly with drugs or bacteria or viruses that kill it? They have no problem putting Botox in someones face.

I worked for the inventor of the ozone machine. He had a tumor in his arm and he injected ozone directly into the tumor. The tumor was the size of a gold ball. The tumor shrank and disapeared, and left a hole in his arm where the tumor was, but the cancer was gone. I saw it with my own eyes and I k now it works.