God & The Occult question

Enlightenup is setting the record as far as I can see on making RELEVANT points rather than a paragraph of ignorance.


It kind of makes sense now because I have read about Moses receiving The Kabbalah and that Jesus and his disciples mainly Mary Madgalane, did in fact have teachings that weren't publicized I guess you would say.

Mary Madgalane's identity was smeared, and I always found it strange even before I had knowledge of her about how rarely women were given any credibility, yet before Constantine and the other pagans merged it with Christianity it's pretty obvious in all Civilizations there were Goddesses especially in Roman Greek You Had Athena And Aphrodite to name a few, but isn't it strange how they hold no type of Glory in the Religions taught now?

Surely the woman is meant to represent more than the counter-part being of Adam after the Garden of Eden a woman having any kind of 'main' or 'co-supporting' role if you may kind of dissipates, please don't add in the confusion of the variations of different Mary's I really don't consider that what I'm aiming at...

But what this does tell me is that the true path unlike the one that's been setup with Sunday worship instead of the True Sabbath(Saturday) Worship in a majority of Churches, it tells me there is more to it, because those who did possess the kind of knowledge Enlightenup has learned of and the kind that I seek were all defiled thru their characteristics and what they represented.

Take the first Babylon story with Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel and the account of forced worship to the image Nebuchadnezzar had a dream of.

this image's head was of fine gold, it's chest and arms of silver, it's belly and thighs of brass, it's legs of iron, it's feet partly of iron, and partly of clay.

This symbolized the kingdoms that would later come into power Nebuchadnezzar represented the top, the head made of gold, now after Daniel gave the right interpretation and told what it stood for to Nebuchadnezzar according to

Daniel 2:47-49

" The king answered unto Daniel and said, of a truth it is, that "your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of Kings, and a reveler of SECRETS, seeing thou couldst reveal this secret. Then the king made Daniel a great man and gave him many great gifts and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon. Then DANIEL Requested of the king, and he set Shad-rach,Me-shach, And Abed-Nego over the affairs of province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king."


now this is where it gets strange to me considering following right after this in Daniel 3 Nebuchadnezzar's image is erected and although after understanding that the head of gold was to only represent Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom he felt he could be master of his own fate by making it ALL of gold to represent he would reign forever.

Now considering he just basically praised Daniel's God Daniel 3 interprets in a WHOLE 'nother perspective this time just focusing on his 3 friends Shad-rach,Me-shach, & Abed-Nego not worshiping the erected statue that Nebuchadnezzar set forth made entirely of gold, therefore he tries to question them why and when they say in

Daniel 3:16-18:

Sha-drach, Me'-shach, and Abed-Nego, answered and said tto the king, O Nebuchadnezzar we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine had, O King.

But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.


Well they were indeed cast in this furnace and 4 figures were seen and the fourth was called "the Son of Man" but in the end it repeats the same story of what Daniel was previously awarded where he requested the 3 be promoted in the province of Babylon only this time Nebuchadnezzar does it personally...

And Nebuchadnezzar has another vision and in Daniel 4:8

Where Daniel is considered and called Belteshazzar it really throws me off making me wonder who in fact are they agreeing to worshiping to in the END of the story when Nebuchadnezzar loses everything and finally converts.

And I'm left with the assumption of this, I really stand by the ten commandments and everything but aside from these same stories being re-written by the same supposed scribe or author basically in different perspectives what is it really Teaching besides peoples personal story accounts of converting but in the end we are left wondering to who as for the name God is used to represent everything and everyone in religion stretching from Zeus, Horus, Athena, Buddha, to Jesus and the one and only we call GOD himself...I would assume there is a counter-part being to what he's really referenced to besides the term "GOD" in general which brings me to the Yeshua, YHWH, Elohim, Enlil and Enki names..in the end i'm like WTF?!?!

What am I literally suppose to be learning where are the actual teachings and not stories? It seems like the important stuff has been labeled into being 'occult' or 'satanic' but my common sense tells me whatever those teachings were are the same ones that got Jesus crucified and the ones that has led to several cultures,tribes ,and groups of people led to be killed or segregated from and in the end we have to remember the people who accused Jesus were the same ones saying what he was teaching was witchcraft or heresy it's the same reason the witch trials came about.

What if what we are shunning away is really what Jesus of Nazareth was following?


Enlightenup help me to embark on the path that has lead you to the understanding you are now at terms with.

also enlightenup you say that you also study what i guess they consider the "Dark side" but have no ambitions of enforcing or following it I guess so that leads me to wonder where is your allegiance?

You say you don't get involved in Religious services so i'm left wondering what exactly are your beliefs? You did agree that there is a head honcho in charge that the darkside of which you studied is working to defy so I'm left wondering are you learning on behalf to be closer with the creator or just for your personal use? Because although you are enlightened I don't want to be misguided yanno?

Cause I do go to church and all but me being a virgo we have what you would call a tendency to be analytical...so it's not like i question there is a creator that much I know but I just question what I'm being taught for my own enlightenment for the bible says itself for many will come in his name but work to deceive.


And back on the Church aspect most practice Sun Worship or what is known today as Sunday Worship, but myself on the other hand I'm a 7 day adventist but lately I've come to question that too because I know we are in the last days and it's during the last days those mentioned by the most high will be working to deceive.

And I'm looking for the scripture but it says in Revelation I know for sure that the remnant of her seed, God's true church will emerge from the Wilderness which to me is interpreting that his true teachings aren't down the road at your local church basically it's scattered amongst the earth but only those who seek to 'hunt' for it if you will, will of course find it.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by hezekiah]

After reading some posts on here, it seems to me "only" that the evil / good question is a based on flaw, and that is the lack of understanding of history in its basic way..

If we look at every bible or holy book it shows what? a god "or something" that is telling us lot to work as a team..

the main problem we seem to face is that the question itself is the problem ? the question itself about who or what created us is the killer here because of its own affects, in that it devides man himself to question it and "us" thus creating the very debate we are having

is the question itself the problem? or is it we shall keep asking and never be one with each other in our spitrit because we cant agree on the question we ask?

a question can not answer the question.. only the understanding of the question, will one get to the answer they seek,. and the answer we ask as humans will keep us asking into infinity.. or maybe its one of the same? to keep asking a pointless question to get us to a question that atleast has an asnwer

the answer to me is "dont bother asking the question"

like a riddle..

just my 2cents

Actually I'm just trying to figure out what are the teachings of Elohim considering all the different variations on the mystery schools and The Kabbalah and what not.

reply to post by hezekiah


I think understanding ones self is more important than following any bible.

you are your own best teacher and student.

reply to post by hezekiah


I think we need to examine the question you originally asked in more detail. Lets make some distinctions as to what I think you are having problems with: The Occult (I like the capitals you give) is the same thing as the esoteric, which literally means "pertaining to move inward" and in the historical sense this is mysticism or hidden knowledge. Magick, sorcery, alchemy, conjuration and the like are sometimes part of the esoteric (the occult) but are not the whole... is the following the question you really wanted to ask?

Is witchcraft and it's associated practices evil?

If that is what you are seeking answers to I will be happy to elaborate.

Originally posted by hezekiah
also enlightenup you say that you also study what i guess they consider the "Dark side" but have no ambitions of enforcing or following it I guess so that leads me to wonder where is your allegiance?

Definitely with God.

You say you don't get involved in Religious services so i'm left wondering what exactly are your beliefs? You did agree that there is a head honcho in charge that the darkside of which you studied is working to defy so I'm left wondering are you learning on behalf to be closer with the creator or just for your personal use?

I would say my concepts of what constitutes "God" are rather abstract and arcane almost to the point of being ineffible. What I do work towards is closeness with the creator, not "personal use". The eternal is of far greater import. If it were just personal use I wouldn't even talk about it but try to gain an advantage over others, which I do not crave. Nobody should lack.

Because although you are enlightened I don't want to be misguided yanno?

For one, I wouldn't consider myself "enlightened". All is a work in progress. Secondly, I am simply sharing my views which may or may not ring true for you. I do not wish to misguide anyone nor do I wish to be responsible for doing so. If your path works for you and it is good, you should continue with that. I suppose we're given what we're supposed to have when our hearts are in the right place. The more you know, the greater the burden and the responsibility.

Cause I do go to church and all but me being a virgo we have what you would call a tendency to be analytical...so it's not like i question there is a creator that much I know but I just question what I'm being taught for my own enlightenment for the bible says itself for many will come in his name but work to deceive.

And back on the Church aspect most practice Sun Worship or what is known today as Sunday Worship, but myself on the other hand I'm a 7 day adventist but lately I've come to question that too because I know we are in the last days and it's during the last days those mentioned by the most high will be working to deceive.

It is good to question so that you don't get led astray. I do it constantly.

(Funny, Stargate is on in the background as I typed and the line from Carter was "If you stray off the path you could wind up trapped in the distortion field". :lol

And I'm looking for the scripture but it says in Revelation I know for sure that the remnant of her seed, God's true church will emerge from the Wilderness which to me is interpreting that his true teachings aren't down the road at your local church basically it's scattered amongst the earth but only those who seek to 'hunt' for it if you will, will of course find it.

The way I understand what you're saying is that this "wilderness" represents that things will emerge from the unlikeliest of places, relative to people's preconceived notions of "who" or "what" in any case-- out of the wild and not the carefully groomed and bred, so to speak.

I have done plenty of seeking and I do find indeed. Each must do their own.

Finally, there is a plot of deception brewing in the world, a greater test if you will where those that were the victims will be tempted to persecute the aggressors. It differs from self-defense in that it is a new act of offense. One must keep "unity" and "oneness" in mind at all times and not be led to despicable acts perpetrated falsely in His name. I think its coming will be obvious to those with their heads on straight.

Don't accuse me of trying to be a "false prophet" of the end times on account of that! I don't even claim to be a prophet or any such thing but a normal person in seeking.

In fact, instead of being vague, I'll just point straight to what's tipping me off and you may decide for yourself: www.abovetopsecret.com...'

[edit on 3/27/2009 by EnlightenUp]

i didn't mean to make any of you guys confused but i'm asking what were the teachings that Jesus practiced that made people think he was a witch or something because its known he could heal people and i'm wondering if maybe we were told to stay away from magic,soothsaying, and sorcery by man because could it have been what jesus taught his disciples?

I mean theres magick thats good and magick thats bad I want to know of the magick or I guess 'occult' things that are in favor of the Most High and not the kind that supports the antagonist.

I feel like I'm missing something here, cause' there has to be more to it than just praying, going to church and reading peoples stories in the bible and spreading the word.

'Cause think of it in this way, what if Jesus was walking right now today there hasn't been a crucifixtion yet but in our society today this man is amongst us performing miracles and what do you think they would call that man today in this day and age?

A witch or an occultist..and therefore he would not be given a fair trial and be crucified most likely.


So who are we to judge those who are involved in the occult????

It's From my understanding in debates about this that they don't even like being compared to satanists!!!! So I'm really feeling kinda clueless here...

[edit on 28-3-2009 by hezekiah]

[edit on 28-3-2009 by hezekiah]

The Testament of King Solomon

for those seeking to help enlighten me please go to that link to get a better idea of why i started this thread..the whole Jesus/King solomon thing got me wondering about what people consider occult today and how it basically ties with how Jesus was accused of heresy during his time has lead me to want to discover this knowledge not for power or any selfish-needs but to bring me closer to the creator himself and I would urge that anyone that does think they have the answers and knowledge I seek please be someone serving the creator and not the antagonist I don't have time for the con game of deceptions...

Originally posted by hezekiah
I mean theres magick thats good and magick thats bad I want to know of the magick or I guess 'occult' things that are in favor of the Most High and not the kind that supports the antagonist.

Anything can be twisted around to support the antagonist no matter how good it seems on the surface. You may come to see the possibilites more clearly if you embark upon learning.

I feel like I'm missing something here, cause' there has to be more to it than just praying, going to church and reading peoples stories in the bible and spreading the word.

Indeed there is. It's about developing and perfecting one's soul. I believe that is what it's all really supposed to be about.

It's From my understanding in debates about this that they don't even like being compared to satanists!!!! So I'm really feeling kinda clueless here...

Make no mistake; some are indeed Satanists-- even some that don't like being compared with them. Discernment is key.

Personally, I feel you could compare me with one if you like but I'll just have a chuckle at the absurdity.

well you managed to throw me off again enlightenup! lol i don't understand why i would slander you and categorize you as a 'satan' obeying occultist when you've clearly pointed out to me you are supporting the protagonist (YHWH)

So that being the case, why did you state such a thing?

Originally posted by hezekiah
So that being the case, why did you state such a thing?

Just my usual snarkiness, that is all.

Originally posted by hezekiah


So basically what are the spiritual doctrines such as The Kabbalah that work on the behalf of doing the GREATER Good I guess in Yeshua or Elohim's name and NOT that the one that supports evil?

I have one single book to recommend to you, and it's under 20 bucks. It's called "Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons In The High Magickal Arts" by Donald Michael Kraig.

I only wish a book like this had been available when I was a beginner to occultism. It assumes that the reader is a first-time beginner, and takes you step by step in the doctrines and theories of the Qabalah, and through the practice of Qabalistic Magick from the first-time beginner stage all the way through moderate work.

I don't agree with every single thing Kraig says there, but it's nevertheless a treasure trove of information in a step-by-step program of lessons and practical work. You can read the first few pages of it here.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp



Indeed there is. It's about developing and perfecting one's soul. I believe that is what it's all really supposed to be about.

You don’t perfect the soul…souls are perfect…you bring about the connection between soul and mind. So then the mind can be perfected and the end of the cacophony though is finally reached.
Kacou.

Originally posted by kacou
You don’t perfect the soul…souls are perfect…you bring about the connection between soul and mind. So then the mind can be perfected and the end of the cacophony though is finally reached.
Kacou.

That's a way to look at it. I am tending to think that when the knowledge of good and evil was received, doubt, fear and shame entered consciousness due to this increased awareness and those qualities carried through many lives. Thus, by a decrease in ignorance we may now sin and we deny ourselves the abundance and closeness with the creator as a form of self-punishment that in a purer state we would not.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


BUMP!

Been out of the mix on here for awhile, now before I do get that book by Donald Kraig; is this creator both of you speak of both the one known as the Elohim and what the hebrews spoke to be YHWH or Yahweh correct?

I won't be hearing about these Enki and Enlil characters which you two speak to be the thought of evil and doubt entered into the conciousness?


And Because that book is a step by step teaching of the Kabbalah which was written by Hebrews and those who practiced Judaism in ancient times are these also the teachings that King Solomon practiced?

Which if so is making me believe the creator is YHWH still correct? Because I notice you guys stray away from saying his name but I've also came across a dispute concerning the YHWH(Yah-weh/Yashua) name that it actually is

Ehyeh asher Ehyeh and the Yeh's were confused either purposesly or intentionally for Yah-WEH where we can basically see it's an anagram with an added A,

and ASHER is only pronounced during the middle of his name where I guess they decided to take the "A" syllable name from and form an anagram name out of the actual TRUE name.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by hezekiah]

reply to post by Masonic Light


hey i made a new reply at the bottom of this thread i'd like u and enlightenup to check out

i been absent for awhile lol

Umm are you sure you guys aren't trying to mislead me because honestly I didn't read the other guys name until now your a full-fledged Mason..ehh I should've known this place wasn't a good place to seek enlightenment because from what's posted on this website and other alternative media websites it's the Masons and Bohemian Grove rituals that strive thru Satan and are the ones who are bringing about this New World Order, I'm asking for knowledge to oppose such things and you try and basically do me like Snow white and the Witch give me something that seems harmless (the apple) but brings nothing but death and damnation.


I thought you guys were actually Practitioners of Light.

Not Dark & Deceit.

:-/

And having a Mason recommend the Jewish Kabballah's book for dummies to me (Donald Kraig) makes it all seem stranger.

I dunno and really I've gotten to where I don't even care lol chances are I won't see the world when it ends anyways so # it lol.

reply to post by hezekiah


Why not just read whatever teachings you can and decide for yourself? At least then you have an educated perspective as free from the prejudices of others as possible. If you conclude that it is objectionable to you, then just ignore it and continue as you were before coming to ATS. My personal life will in no way be diminished by your personal decision in this matter.

I know I'm a good person overall and noone is going to end up convincing me otherwise. I have my faults like anyone but if you think I am dark and/or evil, well, you are entitled to that view even though it is false.