Who else already truly believes there is life elsewhere other than earth?

Originally posted by TheAssociate
I for one do believe. The Drake Equation more or less proves that the odds of there NOT being life elsewhere are far less than the odds that there is life. And besides, it's just more fun and less egocentric to believe.

The Drake Equation does not prove anything nor was it ever intended to be an accurate estimate of how many civilizations are out there. It is at best a thought experiment.

reply to post by King neptune117


I believe there is life out there. I've been reading about anceint times and what the first civilization has accomplished, or somebody else before them, that we can't duplicate today. I was always taught from my religion, that we were special, that we were the center of everything. I'm convinced beyond a doubt that it just isn't true.

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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Certainly not any of the terms you ascribe it. Their position, even if we do not agree with it, is no less reasonable than our position and thus far support by just as much evidence.

In the technical sense you are right... and i suppose it is similar to my stance on religion/god.

So it would be hypocritical for me to argue your point.

I'll just leave it there.... i know you also believe there is life out there somewhere and are just doing the decent thing in saying that the positions (our/theirs) are similar.

So fair-play


Blup

There is no "God" and he did not create the universe. I think anyone that believes in such a being is foolish. I do not mean to antagonize, I just don't understand how anyone can think some all knowing being decided to create the universe.

That being said however, I do not know how the universe came to be, but I am OK with that.

I do believe there are other lifeforms out there in the universe, somewhere.

Some good, some evil. One day, we will meet some of them, and it will be great. Until that time comes, I can only dream about it.

I have 99.99% belief -- one can't know with 100% certainty -- because the vast numbers and probability simply don't allow any other option. However, I'm not 99.99% sure that it's technologically intelligent life. I do sincerely hope so, and have a fairly high belief in this, it's just not a probable in my estimation as simple life forms.

There is also a possibility that there was once technologically advanced life and they wiped themselves out, as we seem to be trying to do to ourselves (and I don't consider humans a very technologically advanced species -- we've only scratched the surface I believe). We might still pick up ancient signals from them.

As I noted in the other thread, there is a widespread belief in the scientific community of some form of life. The SETI project and the Kepler Telescope speak to that. They do hope so and are looking for them. It's just a matter of where and can we pick up their signs [edit - "we" meaning "they", as I'm not a scientist, oh no, far from it].

[edit on 28-3-2009 by bitch is the new black]

i believe that God works in many mysterious ways and that we should understand that the extraterrestrials are here for a reason, They aree here waiting like us for the day in which the lord appears from the sky in all his glory. There are many species of aliens living in the universe some of them are peacefull whilst other are evil and dangerous.The bible tells us that God created the heavens and the earth in Genesis chapter 2 verse 1.
The bible states, "So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed". This also includes other life forms in other places in the universe. Some may argue with me about the fact that the bible doesnt state anything about aliens and so on, but this is not true as it is stated in Ephesians chapter 6 verse 12. the bible states, "for we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those might powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wickedly spirits in the heavinly realms". The bible also somewhere which i cant remember tells of how people encounter these strange frog looking men who can fly.
The bible also describes on two accounts in Ezekial what i believe to be a ufo. the bible descibes in great detail these shinning wheels which are occupied by angels of the lord. They are also said to have many faces and so on. But the point that i am trying to make is that there are the good aliens which are the helpers or angels of the lord which look human and the bad aliens or the fallen angels who look like greys. These greys also made a pact with the government to exchange technology for abductions.
and so the bqad aliens are here waiting for their master the best or false profet and the good ones are waiting for the return of the lords son jesus.
in which when these two things happen there will be a war over humanity and this planet, which at the end all of us will be saved exept those who do not repent against their evil doings.
some other cultures for example the mayans believe that this day will occur in the decembr of 2012.

This discussion has been around for ages, fact is that although the universe and its posibilities might seem endless there is no proof whatsoever of intelligent life elsewhere.
Fermi paradox

It might be a scary idea, to be alone on a tiny prison planet, but its just the more reason to not screw it up. There is no help out there.

reply to post by Grid_Fire

Fermi's Paradox simply states the conflict between environment and the lack of evidence where one would assume evidence would be plentiful. It is one cog in an argument, not an argument in and of itself. To present it as such leads to the argumentum ad ignorantiam, or Argument from Ignorance Fallacy (You can read more about that in my post here). In other words, you can't conclude that there is no extraterrestrial life on the basis that there is no evidence, or ought to be some but there is no evidence of some.

reply to post by King neptune117


THERE MUST BE..............................
Such a vast expanse must be home to other intelligent life forms...........
we can't possibly be the only ones.....................can we.......?????????

I have always believed in life on other planets. Just because they may not look like us doesnt mean another species cant survive on other planets. Their whole make up is more than likely different than ours and more compatible with their own planets. I think each species adopts to their home planets atmosphere and surface. Just cause we cant live on say Venus that doesnt mean something else cant. I think the idea of other beings out there is exciting and scary at the same time.

Hell I'm still trying to find intelligent life here on earth.

Rumor is there is but the dolphins aren't talking.

Stephen Hawking thinks there is.

Famed astrophysicist Stephen Hawking has been thinking a lot about the cosmic question, "Are we alone?" The answer is probably not, he says...Primitive life is very common and intelligent life is fairly rare, he then quickly added: "Some would say it has yet to occur on earth."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by Grid_Fire
...its possibilities might seem endless there is no proof whatsoever of intelligent life elsewhere.
Fermi paradox

At the same time, there is no proof there isn't.

There are many answers to the Fermi Paradox that do allow for us sharing the galaxy with other civilizations.

Originally posted by Grid_Fire
It might be a scary idea, to be alone on a tiny prison planet, but its just the more reason to not screw it up. There is no help out there.

I do agree with this sentiment in a way. We may be effectively alone.

And there are quite a few UFO believers, in particular the Disclosurists, who look at aliens as messianic figures, that if we could only contact aliens (or if the government would admit the truth) all of humanities problems would be solved. We would be saved from ourselves.

Your thread is way off the mark... we've already begun the era of 'preparation'...

1) The VATICAN acknowledges the possible existence of intelligent alien life. This flies in the face of all modern-day (institutionalised) religion and is a world changin event just by their admission -- there was little to no coverage in MSM at the time (last year).

2) Various countries (other than US) have said publicly that we have been visited by aliens

3) UK, France, canada and Mexico have begun to release/declassify documents pertaining to previous investigations by their respective secret services

4) Hollywood - Independance Day, Contact, War of the Worlds, Deep Impact, The Knowing et al -- all awaken a small piece of collective consciousness as to the possibilities of "outside threats"

...need I go on??

5) Look up Dr Stephen Greer, Disclosure Project .org and his 400+ strong press conference of ex military/provate sector whistleblowers who were willing to go before congress and TESTIFY as to Us gov't disinformation and secrecy on ET disclosure.

6) Look up Buzz Captain-bloody America-Aldrin who has stated on NUMEROUS occasions encounters of UFOS and being 'followed' y ET spacecraft.

I won't go on but you get the point. We're being drip-fed and we don't need to be.

The US PTB just needs to figure out how to put a tap (and meter!!) on zero point energy, since when they DO finally say "ETs have been here" they MUST, by proxy, disclose the physics that got them here.

Then, power (geopolitical and real energy) wll be de-centralised and thus do away, ultimately with our $200trillion dollar (PETRO DOLLAR MAINTAINED) oil & gas industry and the economy that has empowered Americas Military might....

Someone stands to lose out with disclosure and it isn't these noddy countries who have already acknowledged ETs.

[edit on 28/3/2009 by TailoredVagabond]

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Glad to see someone else recognizes this. The Drake Equation is pure speculation and groundless assumption. It was never really meant to have any substantial merit to science aside from a conversation piece. And that's exactly how it was treated, put on America's living-room tables and explained by Carl Sagan. The last true public superstar of academia. It helped secure funding, promoted public approval of space research, and generated discussion between scientist and non-scientist alike.

I REALLY wish science would do more to improve it's public image and promote these positive figureheads to act as the rest of humanities "window in" on the scientific world. The best we have now are Bill Nye and Richard Dawkins. Bill produces a hell of a children's show, and Dickie-D has all the charisma and credentials to take Sagan's place... except he's too busy on his own personal crusade against religion, and the polarizing venom he emits (whether justified or not) really would defeat that particular purpose.

Crichton would have been another great one if he had stayed in academia and built up his reputation rather than going the Sci-Fi thriller novelist and pseudo-scientists. At least his books kicked ass... and regardless of right or wrong in his explanations of technology... he did open a lot of people's eyes to Quantum Theory, Chaos Theory, Genetics, Medicine, Cyberization... and... sexual harassment.

reply to post by naossoan

There is no "God" and he did not create the universe. I think anyone that believes in such a being is foolish. I do not mean to antagonize, I just don't understand how anyone can think some all knowing being decided to create the universe.

You can't really say that... because you don't know for a fact. If we could say that definitively, then there must be some sort of a testing process by which you can test for either the presence or absence of god. If you can test god, or test for god, then he is not metaphysical - because he interacts with perceivable reality and is therefore, within it. If he is not metaphysical, then he is not god. He would be merely some new unidentified force in the universe for us to study and understand.

It's not foolish to believe, but it is foolish to hold a belief without verifiable evidence - then use that as a justification for denying that which does have verifiable evidence.

Also... though most religious folks like to imbue their gods with impressive powers like Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence, etc - I find that these attributes are likely not held by such a being if it exists. It would make a LOT more logical sense that way, you know? I think that would clear up about 80% of the logical fallacies right off the bat, not including further implications thereof.

Why is it reasonable to believe in a god? Because we've already built a microcosm of the (fictional/non-fictional) relationship god has to us. We can build simulations, populate them with AI, endow them with laws of physics, chemistry, quantum mechanics, etc. Would an AI in a simulated environment intrinsically know it was merely an AI in a simulation? Ours are still rather primitive, but consider even the technology we estimate the (supposed) aliens we're discussing on this site have. Compare our two technological levels, and then project Moore's Law, or Kurzweil's law of accelerating returns, or likewise on it. (neither of which are scientific laws, mind you)

That's why I don't consider the concept of god/s as intrinsically wrong, or inherently irrational. Improbable, sure, but not impossible and it is with practical example. Why should one believe something which may be possible, but for which there is no evidence? I suppose that would be irrational. Still, some people find comfort and solace from it. Which I think is enough... provided, you know, it doesn't turn into a problem for the individual or society.

As a Muslim, I do believe in God and all His creation, plus, God said in the Quran that He created many beings that we absolutely know nothing about and in my personal opinion I think that our galaxy alone could well be home to hundreds if not thousands of inhabited celestial bodies.

I absolutely do, and its not a belief, it a knowing, an understanding, and an acceptance.

Life is everywhere, all around us, below us, in front of us hiding in plain sight, and above us. Everywhere, its absolutely breathtaking!

The more we evolve, and CHOOSE to evolve, the more we will become aware of this. That's why so many people are becoming increasingly aware, not just believing, that there is all this other life in our universe.

But, to go in line with this thread, seeing is not believing, believing is seeing. Understanding brings knowing. Add it all together and one can truly begin to realize just how amazing it all is, and just how much life there really is that continually goes unacknowledged and debated, even scorned, by our primitive belief systems and sciences.

Be In Peace.

Originally posted by grover
Hell I'm still trying to find intelligent life here on earth.

Rumor is there is but the dolphins aren't talking.

That's a very unfortunate and damning thing to say. This world is filled to the brim with beauty and intelligence, why not at least start acknowledging that?

You reflect outwards what you feel inwards. We could surely use more assistance in these increasingly strange and uncertain times, not condemnation without reflection.

This is by no means an attack, only an observation on which I will speak honestly about in order to examine my own behaviors and personal growth.

Be In Peace.