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GOP Budget Proposal: Massive Tax Cut For Wealthy

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posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


Its not fair because you are taxing labor. If there is to be any taxes in my eyes it should be a consumption tax. It promotes savings, brings all the underground money out, and it doesnt penalize you for working hard.




posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


I didn't say anything about "liberals" I said the left.

You mean the early 1950's recession or the late 1950's recession.

Tax rates were extremely high up until Reagan.

I want a small government because of the tyranny of men to govern and tax us into oblivion and spend our great grandchildren into a lifetime of debt.

The reason wealth is so concentrated now is because the government allowed it to happen. In fact they are funneling our tax dollars and borrowing against our great grandchildren now, and giving it to the very people you despise.

Rich people can't tax and spend everybody into oblivion they can only spend themselves to being poor. Their wealth does not affect me in anyway unless they are signing my paycheck.

We have big government now, but you don't like it. Instead you want to replace this big government with a different big government.



[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by mental modulator
 


I didn't say anything about "liberals" I said the left.

You mean the early 1950's recession or the late 1950's recession.

Tax rates were extremely high up until Reagan.


And you notice its when Regan cut taxes like he did the deficits skyrocketed. This is why we need to change the way we think. We need to get rid of the world empire, police state, nanny state, and welfare state. Until we get rid of all this we arent paying enough in taxes we need to pay more. If we do then we can repeal the 16th amendment and really have some stimulus. Enjoy this click on the image for the full image....





posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


That is because Reagan spent our way out of a recession and significantly grew government.

Bush 1 had a war. Clinton didn't have a war, Bush 2 had 2 wars. (Side thought, Bush 1, 1 war, Bush 2, 2 wars? possible conspiracy
)

Also it all really started after Nixon removed all traces of our money related to gold. We have always run a national debt everybody except for one president and that was Andrew Jackson who balanced the budget, he did it by selling some land and eliminating the Central Bank.

You also have to take into account inflation. It was said earlier in the thread it might have been you, that we will never ever be able to pay back the national debt.

We have to take drastic measures to get out of this mess we are in. And it isn't a republican or democrat thing it is a crooked politician and justice system thing.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by mybigunit
 


That is because Reagan spent our way out of a recession and significantly grew government.

Bush 1 had a war. Clinton didn't have a war, Bush 2 had 2 wars. (Side thought, Bush 1, 1 war, Bush 2, 2 wars? possible conspiracy
)

Also it all really started after Nixon removed all traces of our money related to gold. We have always run a national debt everybody except for one president and that was Andrew Jackson who balanced the budget, he did it by selling some land and eliminating the Central Bank.

You also have to take into account inflation. It was said earlier in the thread it might have been you, that we will never ever be able to pay back the national debt.

We have to take drastic measures to get out of this mess we are in. And it isn't a republican or democrat thing it is a crooked politician and justice system thing.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]


Yeah I pointed out Nixon a couple posts ago and no that chart is not being used to prove a dem or repub thing its just to show the mad debt. As I stated to sos47 above its quite simple if you want to police the world &, run the nanny/police/welfare state here at home then we need to pay major taxes. If we dont police the world and we get rid of the welfare/police/nanny state here at home then we dont need to pay big taxes. Its a mindset and it makes me sick when the Republicans come out for big tax cuts then come out with big spending to boot. Im sorry you cant have both and people need to realize this......



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Agreed, I like my freedom and if we do that at the expense of paying higher import taxes on goods not produced in the country then that is a sacrifice I'm will to make.

Your point about tax cuts and big spending is correct all the way around. I'm in the no welfare/nanny/police state category, low low taxes and say out of my business.

I don't want it both ways. I want it one way. That is the freedom way. Other people don't seem to be able to comprehend that big government means less freedom no matter which way you slice it.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


Not fair because it taxes labor? One gent makes $5000/hour. Gent 2 makes $5/hour. Its all labor



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by mybigunit
 


Not fair because it taxes labor? One gent makes $5000/hour. Gent 2 makes $5/hour. Its all labor



If you have a flat 10% tax on someones wages you are taxing labor period. Lets say someone works three jobs to make more money he still gets the 10% tax even though he chooses to work three jobs to make all his money. A fair tax aka a consumption tax lets you make all the money you want. You only get taxed when you spend it. This is good because it promotes savings, digs up all the underground money, and does not penalize you for working three jobs to make ends meet.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by mental modulator
 


I didn't say anything about "liberals" I said the left.

You mean the early 1950's recession or the late 1950's recession.

Tax rates were extremely high up until Reagan.

I want a small government because of the tyranny of men to govern and tax us into oblivion and spend our great grandchildren into a lifetime of debt.

The reason wealth is so concentrated now is because the government allowed it to happen. In fact they are funneling our tax dollars and borrowing against our great grandchildren now, and giving it to the very people you despise.

Rich people can't tax and spend everybody into oblivion they can only spend themselves to being poor. Their wealth does not affect me in anyway unless they are signing my paycheck.

We have big government now, but you don't like it. Instead you want to replace this big government with a different big government.



[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]


You mean the paying off of WWII war debt - and the 20% drop of National debt per GDP.

Were home ownership grow - until it fell flat in the 80's

you mean RR the presidency that started the modern role of Gross national debt

to the tune of 189% - the highest in history?



2/31/1977 CARTER $ 718,943,000,000 10% $2,030,900,000,000 35.4%
12/31/1978 CARTER $ 789,207,000,000 10% $2,294,700,000,000 34.4%
12/31/1979 CARTER $ 845,116,000,000 7% $2,563,300,000,000 33.0%
12/31/1980 CARTER $ 930,210,000,000 10% 42% 10.6% $2,789,500,000,000 33.3%
12/31/1981 REAGAN $ 1,028,729,000,000 11% $3,128,400,000,000 32.9%
12/31/1982 REAGAN $ 1,197,073,000,000 16% $3,255,000,000,000 36.8%
12/31/1983 REAGAN $ 1,410,702,000,000 18% $3,536,700,000,000 39.9%
12/31/1984 REAGAN $ 1,662,966,000,000 18% $3,933,200,000,000 42.3%
12/31/1985 REAGAN $ 1,945,912,000,000 17% $4,220,300,000,000 46.1%
12/31/1986 REAGAN $ 2,214,835,000,000 14% $4,462,800,000,000 49.6%
12/31/1987 REAGAN $ 2,431,715,000,000 10% $4,739,500,000,000 51.3%
12/31/1988 REAGAN $ 2,684,392,000,000 10% 189% 23.6% $5,103,800,000,000 52.6%


www.skymachines.com...

You use the Reagan model and it is the WORST model to cite HTBMTL.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Oh yea, the roaring 80's where Reagan was combating record high inflation, record high interest rates a recession, and then had the Savings and Loan crisis in 1987. Most of which was caused by Carter. Reagan was also dealing with the energy crisis when he took office also, Which was also caused by Carter.

Don't make this into a democrat republican thing because neither of them have a good track record of implementing conservative principles or sticking up for the people.

The 50's recession had nothing to do with paying off war debt, it was false highs brought on from the Korean War. It also had to do with the Fed Reserve tightening monetary supply to combat inflation because of Korean War spending.

Read this link

The fact is we are all about to get taxed into a oblivion to pay for Obama's all the money Obama wants to spend. If the republican tax plan got implemented it would work out for everybody.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife

The fact is we are all about to get taxed into a oblivion to pay for Obama's all the money Obama wants to spend. If the republican tax plan got implemented it would work out for everybody.


It wouldnt work out for everybody because they are not willing to cut spending. This is what Ive been parroting this whole time. Its not better because they give tax breaks but dont cut spending to pay for those tax breaks. Its just going to add more and more on to the national debt. Will it add as much as Obama? Probably not but its not the point. The Republicans are supposed to stand for balanced budgets and small government and until they actually come through with it I dont want anything to do with them. Ill vote Ron Paul or 3rd party and Ill keep costing the Republicans elections till they get their Shiite together and bring what they promise.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


It will work out for everybody because everybody will have more money in their pockets.

Obama is going to spend spend spend spend, just like Bush did. I particularly do not support paying higher taxes. It is time for the government to make spending cuts. The only way that is going to happen is if they are forced to do it.

Until that day I don't see why the citizens shouldn't keep more of their money in there pockets. I don't support raising taxes just for the government to squander it away. Neither side has shown they can pay debt off, instead they just keep spending on whatever they feel like.

So why not cut taxes they aren't going to pay down debt, they are just going to enact more entitlement programs.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife


It will work out for everybody because everybody will have more money in their pockets.


hahaha and this sir is the very mindset I am railing against while you keep saying you agree with me. No this is not money in the pockets no more than it is taking a cash advance from a credit card and putting the cash in your pocket but having not only the debt but the interest attached. You cant keep giving tax cuts while running big deficits because it is doing literally what I said its taking money from a credit card and calling it wealth. Spending cuts MUST come to pay for those tax cuts and until I see Republicans do this I dont want to see them win another election. If they lose enough elections they will change trust me but as long as we keep voting for them while they do this same crap over and over and over they have no reason to change do they? Im sorry the Republicans are tools and they are no better than the Democrats they claim to be against when I see real change in the Republicans Ill let you know but this budget is just the same as the Democrats.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


I agree with you on a lot of stuff and the tax cuts with out cutting spending doesn't work.

But tax increases while spending outrageously doesn't work either. So why should we have to pay more money to the government who is just going to blow it themselves.

It is akin to taking the money on the debt card and giving it to the government to spend. The only difference is that it isn't the persons pocket who earned the money.

We are still getting charged for the money for it, the only difference is who is spending it.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by mybigunit
 


I agree with you on a lot of stuff and the tax cuts with out cutting spending doesn't work.

But tax increases while spending outrageously doesn't work either. So why should we have to pay more money to the government who is just going to blow it themselves.

It is akin to taking the money on the debt card and giving it to the government to spend. The only difference is that it isn't the persons pocket who earned the money.

We are still getting charged for the money for it, the only difference is who is spending it.


Government is going to spend money regardless until the people force change. Here is my point to you. We the people need to use the same strategies on the government as they use on us peons. That strategy is called divide and conquer. If everyone who really believes what we believe in quit voting for Republicans it would force them to change because they would want to be elected. But as long as people keep voting for them even though they throw out crap like they did today then they have no reason to change. Im sorry Ill live with Democrats in control for a while until the Republicans decide they want small government because when they do decide they want to play ball they can always overturn any damage done by the Dems. I wont vote for the dems Ill vote 3rd party But the Republicans think they can still push crap like this tax cuts while still pushing big spending its disgusting. With the Democrats I know what Im getting Im getting big government and big spending and big taxes but with Republicans you get the same big government and big spending just no taxes to pay for it and that is just wrong man.

So Ill sit back and wait like the fat girl on prom night. Ill wait for the Republicans to wake up but until then I for one will not buy into this fallacy that you can tell everyone your for small government because you can cut taxes but at the same time spending way more than you tax. I wont be part of this fraud anymore.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


THe GOP plan will complete the job of making us a nation of wealthy and serfs. No doubt about it....not every hoi polloi can hit the lottery, which is used to keep most of us in line....just like ancient Rome and Greece. Wake up.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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I am in the below $100,000 dollar bracket if the Republicans really got this tax plan through, I would save about 50% on my taxes. I aspire to be in the above $100,000 tax bracket.

The bottome line is in reality, we can't have tax cuts until the government stops squandering our money on useless wars, entitlement programs, forced volunteerism
, Military Industrial Complex, Giant Bank Bailouts, etc...

I believe that the Federal Governemnt should be small. It should provide a national DEFENSE. Not build the largest, most expensive military the world has even seen.

The government should build roads and pay for, or subsidize schools. The government should give us cheaper, if not free healthcare.



As of 2009, the United States government is spending about $1 trillion annually on defense-related purposes.
www.independent.org...

Cut that spending by a third and you can easily give every man, woman and child inexpensive, if not free health care.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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When you over tax the rich, the rich take their toys away. When the rich take their toys away, the entire country suffers. Nobody should be punished for being productive and doing so only causes more problems than it solves. Instead of raising taxes on the rich, why not cut government spending and stop giving bailouts? My 2 cents.

TheAssociate



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by mental modulator
 


Oh yea, the roaring 80's where Reagan was combating record high inflation, record high interest rates a recession, and then had the Savings and Loan crisis in 1987.


Reagan had 8years to clean the mess but instead he tripled the debt that Carter left. Obama has been in office for just over two months, not close a year inheriting something much bigger than what Reagan inherited and already you folks usher his term a faliure.

Is this hypocrisy, or watching ones partisan line? I dont know you are the only one that can answer that.


Reagan was also dealing with the energy crisis when he took office also, Which was also caused by Carter.


You mean the 1979 energy crises? The one that could be traced back to the price controls on domestic oil implemented by the Nixon(R) administration? The 1979 crises that was influenced greatly by the Iranian revution? What because Carter didnt "liberate" Iran like good ol' Bushy boy its all on him? How about the fact towards the end of Carters administration the energy crises began to decrease and continued so. Reagan didnt to squat but play the president nicely. He was an actor.

I just love the way you folks try to sweep the dirt under the rug left by previous conservative administrations... mind you there is always something left over.


Don't make this into a democrat republican thing because neither of them have a good track record of implementing conservative principles or sticking up for the people.


BS. 99% of the threads from conservative ATSers revolve around those darn "elite liberals" and those pesky dems. The only we hear of any criticism of republicans here is when your trying to sound impartial while bashing liberals. Seriously Id like to see a thread about republicans only by you folks, and you know who you are.

This has alot to do with dem, republican or ideology in general. Its a daily troll with you folks.


The 50's recession had nothing to do with paying off war debt, it was false highs brought on from the Korean War.


Which was there on started by Truman. Mind you I do admire truman, one of the only true moderate conservatives, but he got the US into the war against the sub-neutrality foreign policies of the conservative platform.

Give me a break.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


It aint surprise... the only solution conservatives can come up with if anything is tax cuts... that most benefit the rich. The Bush tax cuts went swell eh? $1 trillion down the goob over a 6year period from 2001 and yet things slowly got worse. The next thing you know we have fringers crying foul from the "elites" and those wealthy "wall street folk" and yet they again change their tone making excuses for these folks.

Are fringers confused or do they just like to move the lines every so often to suit their arguments.



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