I hate the idea that the United States is the most free nation on the planet. It's a farce. While it oppresses its citizens in a manner that generally provides revenue for it's counties through a reckless proficiency in handing out sentences for the most non-violent of crimes. To pay an exhorbitant amount of money for nothing is the American Dream. Yet it's obvious to anyone with a brain that the American dream is flawed beyond belief. To pride oneself on the ability to destroy competition and turn ones life into parts signified by assets. This is how America is flawed.

In a world proud that it is built upon lies. No! Men are not created equal. You must work to crush your opponenets. To display hubris above all others. To become recognised and treated with respect while thousands die. Its, flawed, all flawed. The American Dream is a lie. Yet we treat it as fact hanging on to hope like a false religion.

I could go on and on. And NEVER, I mean NEVER have I agreed with a TC conservative statement. Today is the first time ever. The American Dream is reliant upon ones personal responsibility for themselves. If we could finally all agree that whoever is the most ruthless wins, I would be a much happier camper. America is made up of lies told to maintain a democratic peace within the ranks. I hate America because it is built on lies. Yet, if America told the truth I would love it with all my heart.

Oh yeah, and American Mad Man. Two more years and you will never have to hear from my dissident voice again. I will be hating "America" from the outside. "America, love it or leave it" is an opinion I recognize fully. But having been here for 6 years (once I'm done with college) I will be able to criticise with the conscience of a voting American. I hold my own opinion dear, not yours. Once I take your excellent university system for all its worth, I'm gone. Call me an idealistic teen, for that is what I am, but I cannot stand the two faced propaganda I am faced with from day to day.

Originally posted by insite You must work to crush your opponenets. To display hubris above all others. To become recognised and treated with respect while thousands die. Its, flawed, all flawed. The American Dream is a lie. Yet we treat it as fact hanging on to hope like a false religion.

that isnt the american dream, to crush others for your own gain, its to be happy, free and live without fear.

what you describe is how the world is and always has been, the american dream is to escape from all of that, its every person in power across the globe that is the problem, not america.

Originally posted by Joseph Knecht
- I hate that America is so gluttonous and wasteful when it comes to food, being that there are starving people all over the world, and in America itself.

- I hate the fact that America dropped two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

i have to agree with u on the first one. when ever i'm at a restaurant, i also notice that americans almost never finish what they have on their plates. even if its a buffett.

for the second one, i'd have to disagree. if the bombs weren't dropped, a ground invasion would've had to occur. the invasion would've led to the deaths of not only millions of japanese soldiers and civilians but also american soldiers as well. their economy would be ruined and we wouldn't have great stuff like cool little cell phones and electronics.

Originally posted by namehere
that isnt the american dream, to crush others for your own gain, its to be happy, free and live without fear.

what you describe is how the world is and always has been, the american dream is to escape from all of that, its every person in power across the globe that is the problem, not america.

You may be right. But would you agree with me that the American Dream is to make something out of nothing and that anyone could achieve it? If you believe that everyone can become whatever they wish you are falling into the lie. I don't mean to personally attack you, but this falsification is perpetuated to the point that it becomes fact within American idealist culture.

The American people celebrate materialism at all costs there are no ifs, ands or buts. Failure financially is frowned upon while success at great cost is celebrated. If you dont' see this you hold American ideals I protest against.

[Edited on 4-20-2004 by insite]

Here comes fun!!!

Heres what i hate about the USA!

-Your population is kept in ignorance about the world and issues (thus they cant complain)
-your 'world sports' include NASCAR, NFL, NHL, Baseball, and basket Ball... all sports that maybe one or two other countries other than the USA play (with the Exception of ice hockey which is played across nortern europe)
-Your rich stuff themselves with food and luxuries while your poor siffer and poor all over the world suffer.
-Your government acts all highand mighty, they say they do things for the interest of the world and other countries when in reality its only for themselves.
-you overthrow some dictators but leave other who are worse in place, you overthrow democratically elected governments to install tyrants (Iran, Indonesia... etc)
-You are the only nation to ever drop a nuke (2 in fact) and yet to seem to think your the only nation allowed to have them
-You support Israel when clearly they are a terrorist state.
-You supprted the IRA who were clearly a terrorist organisation (but britain didnt go and invade you did they???)
-you only go after islamic terrorist but not the IRA and ETA (also other groups who's names elude me)
-you invaded iraq illegally and on lies.
-you violate human rights, then go off and acuse others of the same thing.
-you pollute the environment more than any other nation
-you manipulate countries into 'free trade' which only benefits you and the other rich countries.
-you claim to be the 'land of the free'... what a joke!


well the list continues but i'm getting worked up and i'm at work and thats not a good thing...
so to conclude:

2>AMERICA SUX

Originally posted by specialasianX
2>AMERICA SUX

And you are complaining about America?? Australia is virtually the mirror relfection of the United States. I laughed when I read your post it was that outlandish. Your neighbors to the east have an identity. Australia sold theirs to Hollywood. Good luck flaming America from Australia, you are in the same boat and I laugh at your ignorance of that fact. Ha ha ha.

o well...... guess that's the price u pay for not having as much power as us. jesus f*ckin christ. everybody hates us! nobody wants to be our friend! GOD DAMMIT! THEY DON'T HAVE A CRYING SMILEY!

X, you have gone too far. I am not an American but I will not stand by and let you put down the NFL. The Superbowl is second only to the World Cup and the Olympics, and you know how often those happen. So X, this is for you....

You are wrong when you say that America is the most violent country in the world, internally or externally. There are far worse countries, and if you had the chance to travel and live in other countries then you would have seen this.

What i hate about America is that there are so many people running around saying we are not free, and take for granted the same freedoms that give them the right to speak their minds and these same Americans have no idea that people in other countries really have "no freedom at all."

I hate the fact that there are many people in the US who are mistaking freedom with "anarchy" and they just want to be able to do whatever they want, even outside of the law and nomatter the consequences of their actions towards others.

For example, I am not saying everyone thinks like this, but I have read some people in forums complain about not being free because they can't grow a farm of pot behind their house....or sell this pot....among other things.

I hate the fact that the same freedoms that make our country so great is making it possible for groups of people who hate America and our way of life to come here and thrive by spreading hate towards the US and want to totally change the US to fit their own agendas and their own views of an oppressing government.

I also hate it that is true that many corporations in the US are thriving while not caring about what happens to the environment or to future generations. Well, this happens all over the world, not only in the US.

I hate the fact that many Americans are willing to bitch and moan about what they see wrong with the government, they want to resort to violence but they are not willing to work with the government and see how we can all improve our nation by being really involved.

Humm...i think that pretty much sums it all.
Other than that the US is a great country to live in. I love the United States of America.




[Edited on 20-4-2004 by Muaddib]

[]Originally posted by Muaddib
You are wrong when you say that America is the most violent country in the world, internally or externally. There are far worse countries, and if you had the chance to travel and live in other countries then you would have seen this.

29 countries my friend, 29 I remember visiting. I'm 19 years old.

What i hate about America is that there are so many people running around saying we are not free, and take for granted the same freedoms that give them the right to speak their minds and these same Americans have no idea that people in other countries really have "no freedom at all."

America is not, by any means, the only country in the world that provides it's citizens with the basic rights to make criticisms.

I am not saying everyone thinks like this, but I have read some people in forums complain about not being free because they can't grow a farm of pot behind their house....or sell this pot....among other things.

If America stands for freedom, you should be allowed to grow a farm of cannabis behind your house. If you don't agree, then we must stop calling ourselves the purveyors of freedom.

I hate the fact that there are many people in the US who are mistaking freedom with "anarchy" and they just want to be able to do whatever they want, even outside of the law and nomatter the consequences of their actions towards others.

Anarchy is not only about personal freedom, but personal responsibility. You cannot have rights without responsibilities. It's impossible for everyone to enjoy absolute freedom. Freedom = anarchy. If you want to make a connection between destruction of rights through freedom and its consequences on others, find another ideology besides anarchy. Thomas Jefferson (the same guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence) was an anarchist. Enlighten yourself. If America was as half as free as the Constitution administered on it's own, the U.S. would be an anarchy.

I hate the fact that the same freedoms that make our country so great is making it possible for groups of people who hate America and our way of life to come here and thrive by spreading hate towards the US and want to totally change the US to fit their own agendas and their own views of an oppressing government.

Thus is the freedom of speech, to hate the ability for others to hate is destruction fo rights and a direct contradiction of what you apparently hold dear.

I also hate it that is true that many corporations in the US are thriving while not caring about what happens to the environment or to future generations. Well, this happens all over the world, not only in the US.

Bravo. An insightful observation! Not only in America but in every free nation. Want to know why? Because freedom allows lessaiz faire corporate ideology to thrive. Come up with a reason why a corporate agenda negatively affects freedom and I would be happy to debate it with you.

I hate the fact that many Americans are willing to bitch and moan about what they see wrong with the government, they want to resort to violence but they are not willing to work with the government and see how we can all improve our nation by being really involved.

In order for anarchy to occur, the world (or nation) must undergo a massive revolution. If anarchy is what the forefathers envisioned, then you are contradicting the geniuses who drafted the Constitution.


America is not the greatest country to live in. It is perverted and distorted and I think that if you really had a taste of the freedom the forefathers planned upon, you woul be disgusted by the current state of events.

[Edited on 4-20-2004 by insite]

There is an awful lot on this thread that I agree with, but when I saw the subject title I decided that since I had my rant about the States in the "what do you love about America?" thread, that it was only fair to post the things that I can tolerate about this country...

So....I lay down my objections and hostilities for the moment and give you the things I do appreciate:

I love the sheer space. I love not bumping into people everytime I turn around (When I stayed with Pisky in Wolverhampton it was like a never ending sea of humanity constantly bumping into you. I'm not sure if the British understand the concept of personal space lol..but then to be fair, I realize that there isn't as much personal space for people and Brits are used to being in such close quarters with other people. But we're talking about America now so I'll try not to digress.

I love that we have so many choices and businesses are open 24 hours. I don't understand how anybody lives without 7-11 or 20 different choices of coffees at Starbucks.

I love the bits of Americana that are strictly ours and unique to us. Like Drive-ins (even though these have been disappearing like mad the last two decades) and 50s style diners.

Las Vegas - nuff said. (I went into a casino in England and was told I couldn't play because I wasn't a member..kind of posh, too. Here, my money is as good as anybody elses when it comes to casino play).

My reasonably uncrowded west coast shoreline. The pure unspoiled natural beauty (I'm talking about Oregon, not Southern California lol).

Southern California - Disneyland, Magic Mountain, Knotts Berry farm...FUN FUN FUN !!!!!

Yellowstone National Park - Truly beautiful. I could stare into those bottomless pools all day. The only place like it in the world.

The basic friendlieness and outgoingness of Americans in general. We don't keep things close to the vest, we cry when we feel like it and we yell when we feel like it. In other words....we let it all hang out. That's just us and I won't apologize for it to other countries who complain we are too "loud". We aren't loud. We're extroverted.

There. I thought that was a pretty good list. Just so you guys who saw my rant will know I see the positives too. It's all about balance, right ?

I hate that everyone is jealous of us. Where would they be without the U.S.A.?

One thing I do not understand about America,
(I'm from New Zealand, it's a pretty small country)
WHY must everything in America be so big?

Your cars are huge, your 4WDs are bigger, your MacDonalds drinks are huge, your burgers are huge.
A new Cadillac car has 10 cupholders. Thats 2 per person! Why would each person in a car have 2 drinks at the same time?
There is no need for all these things to be so big. It is just impractical. There seems to be this mentality that mothers need a 4WD vehicle that can traverse arctic tundra to drop the kids off a football because if you drive a small car you are a small person.

Plus, cars are large and cheap over there, as is petrol, which means many people drive everywhere which in conjunction with cheap fast food seems to make many people fat and lazy.

Originally posted by John Gobies
One thing I do not understand about America,
(I'm from New Zealand, it's a pretty small country)
WHY must everything in America be so big?

Your cars are huge, your 4WDs are bigger, your MacDonalds drinks are huge, your burgers are huge.
A new Cadillac car has 10 cupholders. Thats 2 per person! Why would each person in a car have 2 drinks at the same time?
There is no need for all these things to be so big. It is just impractical. There seems to be this mentality that mothers need a 4WD vehicle that can traverse arctic tundra to drop the kids off a football because if you drive a small car you are a small person.

Plus, cars are large and cheap over there, as is petrol, which means many people drive everywhere which in conjunction with cheap fast food seems to make many people fat and lazy.

Right on many points, John, but I think the main reason things in America seem so big to you is that stuff in your country is so small. lol

I laugh here, but I'm serious. I've spent a good deal of time in England, which is roughly the size of the state I live in. And I was amazed at how small things are until I realized that it was because there simply isn't enough space in England to make things so big.

That's all it is. We have the space, so we take advantage of it.

Originally posted by insite
Oh yeah, and American Mad Man. Two more years and you will never have to hear from my dissident voice again. I will be hating "America" from the outside. "America, love it or leave it" is an opinion I recognize fully. But having been here for 6 years (once I'm done with college) I will be able to criticise with the conscience of a voting American. I hold my own opinion dear, not yours. Once I take your excellent university system for all its worth, I'm gone. Call me an idealistic teen, for that is what I am, but I cannot stand the two faced propaganda I am faced with from day to day.

Oh man!
You come here and use our money to go to our schools to get the best education in the world,and then slam us.You my friend are the problem.All the crap you spew is a front to cover the guilt you must feel for #ing us middle class Americans right up the ass.We as a Nation give you and all the other selfish "give me everything because I deserve it people" the opportunity to come hear and learn to improve yourselves,then you run off and bad mouth us and some even support terror against us.I'm afraid to tell you that we the working class Americans are getting to the breaking point.And when we do all hell will be unleashed.
Her's an idea,leave now!Then see what kind of help and education you get.

[Edited on 20-4-2004 by Daz3d-n-Confus3d]

[Edited on 20-4-2004 by Daz3d-n-Confus3d]

Originally posted by KayEm

Originally posted by John Gobies
One thing I do not understand about America,
(I'm from New Zealand, it's a pretty small country)
WHY must everything in America be so big?

Your cars are huge, your 4WDs are bigger, your MacDonalds drinks are huge, your burgers are huge.
A new Cadillac car has 10 cupholders. Thats 2 per person! Why would each person in a car have 2 drinks at the same time?
There is no need for all these things to be so big. It is just impractical. There seems to be this mentality that mothers need a 4WD vehicle that can traverse arctic tundra to drop the kids off a football because if you drive a small car you are a small person.

Plus, cars are large and cheap over there, as is petrol, which means many people drive everywhere which in conjunction with cheap fast food seems to make many people fat and lazy.

Right on many points, John, but I think the main reason things in America seem so big to you is that stuff in your country is so small. lol

I laugh here, but I'm serious. I've spent a good deal of time in England, which is roughly the size of the state I live in. And I was amazed at how small things are until I realized that it was because there simply isn't enough space in England to make things so big.

That's all it is. We have the space, so we take advantage of it.

I know, but some of those things you have in America are just wasteful. Like the Hummer. It is so big it is insane (I saw one here today, and it took up TWO lanes on the road, then when it parked at the shopping mall it took up FOUR car spaces. And it's fuel consumption is insane!!! )

One thing that puzzles me is that things aren't that big in Australia. Australia is almost the same size as the US, but things there are about the same scale as NZ.
I guess it could be because America has many natural resources close by.

Insite, you really are something you know... You twist the meaning of words as if everyone, or most members, in here didn't know their meaning....

Let me address some of the points you talked about...

29 countries huh?, yep is a lot, but have you trully lived in all those countries to see what it is "living" in them?

I was born in Cuba, i lived there for 7 years, and i have visited my family in there in 2001 for a month, that is trully a country under a dictator, an oppressed country.

I lived 10 years in Spain, visited and lived in many parts of Spain and in Lisboa, Portugal for a bit.

Spain back in the 80s was a mix between democracy and socialism, yes there were many good things about it, but there was a lot of bad. In Spain, althou the education system is free up to what in here is high school, after that unless your family has a lot of money and you are an A student, is really difficult to get an education past high school.

Crime in Spain is a lot higher than that of the US, the thing is that in Spain the media doesn't announce crime as much as it is done in the US.

Now, about our forefathers.....
Unless I am totally wrong, the forefathers of the USA made not only a bill of rights but also provided a means to have a balance on "law" in the "government" when they wrote the Constitution.

Anarchy in itself is the "absence" of law, anarchy is "lawlessness", a conditon of no government in a nation...

I think i am pretty enlightened about what anarchy and freedom is. Yes, with freedom you should also have responsibilities and "laws" to make sure other people's freedoms and rights are taken in consideration also, otherwise it becomes "anarchy", and anarchy was not the intention of our forefathers. This is why they wrote the Constitution. They did not write the Constitution for the US to be an anarchy...

Your opinion about hating the right of others to hate the US being against freedom falls once again in the category of what is within the "law." It is not only that these people and groups hate the US, but they are "actively" seeking to bring down the government and "the way of life" of the US to "further their own agendas.

As for adding new laws as our country has grown and progressed, it is only natural. Very few countries keep the original form of their government intact, but they keep adding new laws as their countries progress and grow.

About your view of freedom meaning being able to grow pot, or whatever else and do whatever you want, even if it is against the law....in here you have to get back to the "laws" of the country, you have to follow these "laws" otherwise what you want once again is "anarchy" and our forefathers wrote about a form of government where there is a check and balance, still it is a form of "government" with "laws."

Once again...read the Constitution of the United States, because i think you have read something else, and see that our forefathers devised a "form of government" and not an "anarchy."

Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Oh man!
You come here and use our money to go to our schools to get the best education in the world,and then slam us.You my friend are the problem.All the crap you spew is a front to cover the guilt you must feel for #ing us middle class Americans right up the ass.We as a Nation give you and all the other selfish "give me everything because I deserve it people" the opportunity to come hear and learn to improve yourselves,then you run off and bad mouth us and some even support terror against us.I'm afraid to tell you that we the working class Americans are getting to the breaking point.And when we do all hell will be unleashed.
Her's an idea,leave now!Then see what kind of help and education you get.

I don't need to run away and slam you, I can do it from the confines of my luxurious apartment (yeah right) right here in Pennsylvania. How 'bout you realize that the minute you decide to revolt I will be there right on the front lines with you? I come from South Carolina, having visited since '84. I know what it's like to see people vote for the wrong representatives based on ignorant ideology. I'll exploit your education system as long as you allow me to, though your High School system almost #ed me in the ass. You do not pay one cent towards my education as a working class citizen. I pay four times the amount of an in state student to be educated here. You know what this means? you shouldn't be mad at me because I'll be fighting on the frontlines for reform right alongside you. But I know it won't change.

I hate many of the things America does. But I do not # any working class citizen. Maybe I support terrorism because I believe in Karma. You don't know anything about my situation. Nothing at all, so relax.