It is not true that China invented the printing, and Johann Gutenberg made it useful. Johann Gutenberg invented the printing.

I believe my colleague Ms. Tinkleflower has responded to that.

quote: Originally posted by Off_The_Street
The most important language of today -- the world language -- is a Germanic language, English, which is the world language beause it is spoken and promulgated by the United States.

That is because of Great Britain, not the United States.

No. Although we in the United States got our language from Great Britian, and the British Commonwealth countries got their language from Victoria's Empire, English is the second language of Russia, China, Japan, South America, and many other places because the (presently) richest and most powerful nation in the world speaks it.

quote: Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Greece, although it could be said to have saved Western Civilization ....

No. They lost against the Persians in the end.

Hardly. Although Greek influence waned after the 4th Century BC, Leonidas at Marathon and Themistocles at Salamis kept the Persians and their Satrapies away long enough for Greece to pass its cultural heritage on to a tribe of somewhat more redneck engineers a hundred miles or so to the west, whose empire passed those cultural ideals on down to us.

And by the way, after the collapse of the Delian League and as a result of the Peloponnesian Wars, a weakened Greece was conquered by the Macedonians under Philip, whose son Alexander in turn actually conquered the Persians.

Indeed, the resulting post-Alexandrian period ("Hellenistic" Greece) ws in many ways, as important as the Classical era a century or so earlier, and although there were certainly persian influences in things like dress, etc. Greece never "lost", per se. Gruen's excellent "The Hellenistic World and the Coming of Rome" does a great job of chronicling this long, gentle Indian Summer of Greece.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by Off_The_Street]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Hardly. Although Greek influence waned after the 4th Century BC, Leonidas at Marathon and Themistocles at Salamis kept the Persians and their Satrapies away long enough for Greece to pass its cultural heritage on to a tribe of somewhat more redneck engineers a hundred miles or so to the west, whose empire passed those cultural ideals on down to us.

And by the way, after the collapse of the Delian League and as a result of the Peloponnesian Wars, a weakened Greece was conquered by the Macedonians under Philip, whose son Alexander in turn actually conquered the Persians.

Indeed, the resulting post-Alexandrian period ("Hellenistic" Greece) ws in many ways, as important as the Classical era a century or so earlier, and although there were certainly persian influences in things like dress, etc. Greece never "lost", per se. Gruen's excellent "The Hellenistic World and the Coming of Rome" does a great job of chronicling this long, gentle Indian Summer of Greece.

You are wrong.
They defended themselves from the Persians in the 5th century BC, but in the end they were conquered by the Persians - in the 4th century BC. Persia took advantage of Greece's weakness and conquered Greece. Later they were conquered by Macedonians in the 4th century BC. The Macedonian empire collapsed immediately after Alexander's death.
Greece was later conquered by Rome.

And to make it clear: Macedonians were not Greeks.

The defenders of the western civilization were: Charles Martel, John of Austria, and the Crusaders.

whose empire passed those cultural ideals on down to us.

Our culture doesn't come from ancient Greece. Our culture comes from the Middle Ages and the later eras.

[edit on 9-8-2005 by AtheiX]

Well, I dont really hate America for any real reason, however there are a few things that I strongly dislike about America.
Before I say them, I will say this, I do live in America, I have all my life.

Anyhow, the things I dislike about America are,

The level of corruption in the government.
How the government keeps so much a secret.
The level of unacceptance for peoples who are not by societal standards normal.
Peoples lack of intelligence. (Yes there are alot of smart people in America, but alot of people dont know stuff that should be common knowledge.)

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
I did not say that the Romans gave us their language. Please re-read the postings, I said that many of our words used today have thier origions in Latin which is the language of the Romans

Not many. Some, but not many.

Greece gave us fratricidal miniwars among the city-states.

Rome also gave us fratricidal wars.



[edit on 9-8-2005 by AtheiX]

Atheis, denying ignorance is one thing, but I have family and work responsibilities which preclude my instructing a person who chooses not to learn. If it makes you feel better about yourself to say that the Persians conquered the Greeks, feel free to do so.

Perhaps you might care to give us some details about this conquest; the names of the victorious and defeated generals, the dates and places of the battle(s), etc.

Or you might choose not to. Common courtesy and basic scholarship usually involves presenting citations to back up your assertions, but there's no law saying you must follow either of those two hallmarks of a researcher.

The defenders of the western civilization were: Charles Martel, John of Austria, and the Crusaders.

Since it was I who mentioned the first two individuals (in more detail) on the previous page of this very thread, I certainly wouldn't disagree with you. However, the Crusaders did not fight defensive wars to push back they Muslims like Martel and John did -- they advanced into Saracen territory to reclaim Jerusalem.

By doing this, they did manage to open up medieval Europe to new ideas, but that could hardly be considered "defending western civilization".

Our culture doesn't come from ancient Greece. Our culture comes from the Middle Ages and the later eras.

Thank you for sharing, Atheix. Have a great day.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Atheis, denying ignorance is one thing, but I have family and work responsibilities which preclude my instructing a person who chooses not to learn. If it makes you feel better about yourself to say that the Persians conquered the Greeks, feel free to do so.

I'm not ignorant, I'm pointing out facts. It is a fact that the Persians in the end won with the Greeks.
That's how it was:
In 490 the Persians started the war and lost the battle of Marathon.
In 480 the Persians came back. They won the battle of Thermopiles but lost the battle of Salamina and had to retreat. They lost the war.
But later, the Peloponese war started, and after it, Greece was weaker. The Persians took advantage of this and took over Greece.
But shortly after that, Greece and Persia were conquered by Macedonia.

Originally posted by rogue1
So what exactly have Germnay, France and GB done which surpasses the US in the last 200 years ? Apart from of course getting themselves into fights which dad across the Atlantic had to sort out

French inventions:
Parachute
Photography
Baloon
Aqualung

British inventions:
The train
The bicycle

German inventions:
Printing
Helicopter
Unfortunately we Germans also invented the world’s least useful/most stupid invention – the car.



[edit on 25-8-2005 by AtheiX]

I hate America's self destruction and loss of liberties
I hate America's promotion of obesity
I hate Montel Williams

Originally posted by paranoia
I hate America's self destruction and loss of liberties

I couldn't have put it better myself.

I hate the slow loss of freedom that we are experiencing as time goes by, and how the general populace is blissfully ignorant of the fact.

I am a chinese who don't hate America and who think that most of the chinese people are friendly to American people.

anything and everything having to do with cars

I hate whatever stays hidden, i hate lies and corrupt, i hate people who care only about themselves, i hate when people support ignorance, i hate when some people force someone not to believe, i hate those who do not respect the others....

I don't hate America....

I hate those who spoil humanity and become one with monsters.....

But most of all, i hate myself watching them stepping into my life and killing my believes and values...

I hate myself when i put them forward to sit in apathy....

In the end i hate me when people steal the truth, my world, my brothers...

[edit on 11/10/2005 by CommanderX]

I hate that Americans are oblivious to the fact that they are the reason behind our loss of liberties. This is what happens when you have the freedom to complain and whine over every little thing.

[edit on 25-10-2005 by zenlover28] Edited to remove excessive quoting

[edit on 25-10-2005 by zenlover28]

I hate geraldo rivera
I hate people who complain about people who complain about there situation
I hate the unfairness of this country
I hate how everyone is absolutely selfish
I hate not having a car
I hate not having a ged, becuase I droped(sp) out, that makes me an evil person
I hate how this country sometimes makes me feel like i'm in a prison
The one thing I do love about this country, is there is no human organ trade. Like the one in china.
And I can fart on someone and not get arrested

i hate..

American capitalism
American neo-fascism
American way of life
America thinking its the best
America thinking its rules the world
American "world police"
American Government

Originally posted by StationsCreation
What do you HATE about America?

Your Oreo's!

Apart from them tasting great they suck.

I saw a ad where this kid has the Oreo experience.
Pulls the two discs apart, licks the cream, puts them back together, dips them in milk and eats them.

This all looked really good to me, so I bought some. I tried to twist apart about 12 Oreo's and they ALL crubled or broke.

What is it? You Americans send us Aussies all the duds.

Yea thats what you get for sending us fosters... Fosters.. Austrailian for pizzle

As to the topic, i dont hate anything about america, but i do hate a few things about americans... like religous intolorance, it use to be the christians hated everyone, but then everyone got together and decided they hated the christians.. fair enough.. they hated you first. but now the atheists are wading in, and they hate everybody... but atleast they hate all the faiths equally.. and isnt that the american way?

and i think the racial problems are more rediculous then anything.. white people should have the good sense to know that not every black man is a mugger or a crackhead, and not every black woman is a lifetime welfare exploiter. i have known many fine upstanding members of the black community, Dr.s, lawyers, nurses, even a "Prince Hall" freemason (but thats a topic for the ATS boards, not the PTS).

But dont think that you black folks are getting off on this rant too.. we got some things to talk about too

Like the fact that america not only didnt start slavery, but they were the first (or atleast one of the first) countries to do away with slavery.

Secondly, it was the dutch traders that brought slaves here from afirca, but ya know what.. they didnt kidnap these slaves.. they were bought from slave pens in africa.. thats right.. your ancestors were sold into slavery by their own people.

Thirdly.. blacks were nether the first, nor the last people to be used as slave labor in this world. lets not forget the several occasions where the jews were slaves (Babylon, egypt), or the fact that the irish had been used as forced labor by the ancient british. lets not forget that slavery is alive and well today.. coc aine cartels use kidnaped villagers to stomp cocoa leaves in the mixing soulution because it contains hydrocloric acids and destroys the feet, but it has to be stomped by foot.. so they use slave labor, then there is the illegal sex slave trade going on all over the world.. and guess who is the hot commodety in that market? pretty white girls.

And i think everyone should get off the backs of the latino americans... you know why they call mexicans wet backs? cause they are all hot and sweaty from working twice as hard as you do. and before you try to argue, let me state that i live in florida.. and see first hand how hard the latinos work... they work damn hard.

but as to that topic, the latinos need to stop hating on each other, cubans and mexicans need to stop hating on each other, and they both need to get off the porta rican's backs.. and you costa ricans need to do the same, dont be mad at them because the US decided to bring them into the family and make them US citizens. dont be mad at them cause they knew a good deal when it came to them.

well.. i suppose thats all i hate about america (or rather americans), but i am sure as this thread moves on i will think of something else

Lousy beer. That's what I hate most.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Lousy beer. That's what I hate most.

Now thats something to hate, i dont even like beer, but back when i did drink i could deffinetly tell a good beer from a bad one.

and along with lousy beer, i hate lousy mass produced food.. some of it is alright, but ramen noodles will be the death of us

and i hate reality TV, there is no reality on TV, not even on the news. But on the subject of TV... i really love UFC (Thats something good about america, we can still get into a ring and beat the crap out of each other for no other reason then to do it, reminds me of family gatherings which would result is a battle royal between me and my cousins in the backyard before dinner).

I hate rib places that charge to much for their ribs, as a lifelong resteraunt worker, i know that a rack of ribs should cost no more then 13.95 and better damn well come with a baked potato atleast, if not a biscuit.. i mean come on, you know how cheap a single biscuit is?

i hate it when people talk bad about the foreign guy working at the gas station, ever talk to that guy? he's acually pretty nice

i dislike people who look down on others from different social classes, from the school level right on up to the upper levels of bussiness and govenrment. Jocks and prepys should get off the collective backs of the geeks, they will be your boss someday. And geeks shouldnt hold a grudge against jocks and preps, they arent all as shallow as you think, and some of them have it just as bad as anyone else, which is why they give you so much grief.

I hate bad movies, hollywood needs to get a new act.

i hate books with no purpose, it doesnt have to be non-fiction, but it better have a purpose other then to fill someones pocket.

I hate what athlets have done to professional sports, i played football and baseball in highschool and i cant even watch a game on TV because all i hear about every day is what these guys are doing outside the stadium.

I hate the fact that some americans still hold on to hatred from a war that they were to young to even remember let alone fight in, all to often i hear phrases like "Some of us still remmeber pearl harbor", everytime they see someone of asian decent (Japanese or otherwise). To those people i say "Some of them still remember Hiroshima & Nagasaki, they have been punished. Get over it"

and what i hate most of all.. is that i can sit here and come up with so many things i dislike about my own country.

We are all to blame for it, some of us for making this country this place that the rest of the world finds fault with, and the rest of us for allowing it to happen, but rather then be shamed for it, we should do what we can, while we still can, to help make it better.

and i think we are doing that, it comes in babysteps, but i think we are taking those tiny steps, we see it mostly when the world is rocked by some diseaster, We have never hesitated to throw our backs into it when nature stickes against our fellow man, not even when that man is from a country that we profess is the enemy, now if we could just show the world that kind of love when it doesnt follow some deseaster

I don't 'hate' anything. Hate harms the person who holds it.

However, there's at least one thing that, every time I hear it, makes me embarassed to be an American-- Nena's horrible English language remake of 99 Luftballons.

And don't even get me started on City of Angels. As if the dubbed version of Der Himmel über Berlin wasn't bad enough.