You must reply this to this thread, because I have an idea,... help is needed.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
reply to post by Doomsday 2029

 

OK Doomsday, let's keep it real. I'm not going to respond to your allegations towards me, but I will address the legal ramifications of what you are suggesting. I'll leave your chauvinistic views to your wife to deal with....lucky her.

I've poked all kinds of holes in your supposed "act of kindness". And yes, I do think it's shady and selfish of you to expect something in return....vile, even. You don't understand the concept of charity. What you want is an indentured servant.

An indentured servant is a form of debt bondage worker. The laborer is under contract of an employer for usually three to seven years, in exchange for their transportation, food, drink, clothing, lodging and other necessities. Unlike a slave, an indentured servant is required to work only for a limited term specified in a signed contract.

Now, here's where it gets sticky. If you contract a foreigner for this offer of "charity" (which I'm using rather sarcastically), then you will be breaking the law. Even IF the homeless person voluntarily signs the contract with you. Indentured servitude was abolished by the 13th amendment to the constitution. However, if you contract a domestic American, well.....the laws are different. Funny how our laws protect foreigners but not our own, eh?

BUT, it is not unheard of for lawsuits to find their way to courts which involve indentured servitude of Americans. So, my friend, what you want is illegal. Take your chances if you dare, but I'm hoping you're wise enough to listen to perfect strangers, or at least do your homework before you find yourself behind bars or paying a hefty fine because your "servant" decided to take you to court. Even PRISONS have to be careful about how they make their prisoners work. What makes you think you can get away with it with a single, homeless Mom with a child?

If true charity is your goal, then I've already outlined what that entails. If cheap labor is your goal, then you'll have to suck it up like the rest of us and pay for services rendered. But what you're asking for is voluntary, contracted FREE labor, in exchange for room and board for an extended amount of time....no matter what kind of spin or "explanation" you try to put on it, it's not legal, but above all, it's morally deprived.



[edit on 3/27/2009 by emeraldzeus]

Indentured Servant is NOT what I want, But under these economic conditions, I believe the upper middle class citizens should step up and offer this idea to the homless as an opportunity for them to prosper. It's only fair that they recieve something in return. And if there is someone that would be happy to be my indentured servant, then I've obviously helped them out.

But thank you for clearing that up in legal terms. That's the help I wanted from this thread.

However, you clearly are a hypocrite. Don't call me chauvinistic or mock the way my wife does the "womanly" chores around the house.

This is common, traditional, and very very normal. But you have this idea that I never clean the dishes, do laundry, change the diapers, take my older son to school, and all of the above.

I do those things... Just not as often a my wife does. And guess what, my wife is better at doing these things than I am.

Also, I take my older son to Basketball, Baseball, and Soccer practise too... And then I teach him how to be better at these sports. We play these games all the time. Men are good at this!!! In fact, I think it's fair to say that men are more effecient than women when they want to teach their son a sport. But I better not say that, because that's a chauvinistic point of view.

Maybe I'll decide to proceed with this indentured servant idea, under the conditions that this "indetured servant" plays sports with my son & his son. In this case, I'd probably be looking for a male. chauvinistic?

Now if you want to slam me for me for not doing TRUE CHARITY, that's another debate.
But I'm looking for new ideas, because this country needs a new idea.

Personally, I feel like the indentured servant idea would help the homeless more than any shelter ever could.



For example: Let's say 50,000 home owning American citizens agree with me, and they decide to look for indentured servants (with children). The idea is that they will help these people get back on their feet. Now that's about 100,000+ homless people that are out of the shelter / tent / street, and inside a luxurious home. The ony stipulation is they have to perorm some duties, chores, and abide by the house rules.

I think there will be more success in the indentured servant idea, as opposed to the tent idea.

I think the people that are in a possition to help others, could produce fr much better results than any homeless shelter could ever dream of.


But you disagree.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Doomsday 2029]

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Doomsday 2029]

I think people need to live within their means. I'm a younger adult and this whole crisis has taught me some invaluable lessons on how to save, how to prepare for the worse and to never live beyond your means. I will always try to have enough saved up for at least 1 year of unemployment and to try to live with minimal debt. Now if this were to happen again in 20 years from now, and I had to bailout thy neighbor.....why should I? Because I was responsible and they weren't?

what is your idea ???to get Alot of points lol

reply to post by jeffcoatsawakening


Welcome to ATS!
Who are you talking to, and what do you mean? What are you talking about in your post?
And what does it have to do with the Topic or the OP?

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Elostone]

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Doomsday,

I don't need an outline of what you do or don't do around your house....you were the one who flung out sexist statements and I was only trying to get you to see how you sounded. Many men would think your statements were disrespectful of your own wife, whether you meant them to be or not. Just be aware, that's all. Women don't like to be stereotyped any more than men do, as you clearly demonstrated....thank you for making my point for me. Enough said about that.

I think this country has come too far to step back to what you're talking about, because it's only a step away from slavery. There's a reason why people fought to ban it! Without a contract, then you're perfectly legal, and she's free to go if things don't work out. But you've missed the whole point of the err of your thought process. You not only WANT something in return, but you EXPECT it. I will leave my argument at that, as we can agree to disagree. My understanding of charity is different than yours, and requires NOTHING in return. Helping people is one thing. Taking advantage of them under contract is another, and is illegal.

Let me add that I've worked closely with the homeless....perhaps this is why I take this so personally. They are no different than you or I, just beaten down, and many times just need a good friend who won't judge them or treat them as an inferior....way too many people do, and it's not easy for them. As I said before, it could be YOU one day, so don't forget how you treat others, because it may just come back to you. Your offer, in my opinion, is demeaning and does just that...reminds them that someone thinks they are inferior. If you pay her, then that's another issue. Not saying you won't ever find one who would take you up on it, but I would be surprised, and even more surprised if it didn't end badly for both parties involved.

Do you even realize that homeless shelters and organizations strive very hard to make them feel good about themselves? They realize that human pride is a hard thing to overcome when you've lost everything you've worked for. Put yourself in those shoes, and you may rethink your ideas and how you approach the need to help. Many don't WANT to be helped, because they've simply given up. Again, what is more important to you....getting free labor or genuinely helping a homeless person? No need to answer that - just think about this, and deeply! You're missing the human factor in this - we're talking about Americans, not a third world native who's lived in squalor her whole life.

Good luck to you and best wishes.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029



Why dont you just take the single mom, and her child, without making her your personal maid ?

Socialism?

No thank you.

This is an odd thread. If you want to do good then do it. It is creepy to advertise for a house mate on ATS.

AND you seem to want a child in the mix.

OHHHHHHH I'm telling Jodie Foster!

Charity is Love...giving does not mean an organization whcih does not really help real people.

IF we don't give trust, we do not get trust. We live in fear because we believe what the media tells us to.

What about giving a RV or fifth wheel, or maybe letting them at least set up a tent in your yard and use facilities in house. Help with education or finding a car or job.

I went to 1800 organizations when my daughter and I were homeless, we just wanted to find a truck and fifth wheel or an RV so we would have a home.

I got turned away by all of them. When we close the door to others, we close it to ourselves as well, and our actions speak to our character.

If we care about America, freedom, peace, then do what is right, which is not always popular.

Just be careful. I've helped people out in the past and put most simply, its best to know who you're dealing with beforehand. And at times I've had the pleasure (NOT) of dealing with psycho room-mates, thieves, alcoholics, and just plain stupid people.

The hardest part is when its time to get rid of them, and that's when they're the most dangerous.

Check the laws in your state.

In some places you have complete control in evicting people from your own home. In other locales its more difficult, and IF you follow the laws... you'll have to pursue a court ordered eviction (which can take months), i.e., you can't just kick them out.

A few factors that could make it more difficult include:

a. They receive mail at your address

b. They pay any sort of rent (in kind)

c. They have free entry (keys) to the place

In most instances if things don't work out you just tell them to leave and that's it but if they contest having to move, a trouble-maker can mean real trouble and generally speaking the police probably won't do much to help you either - particularly if they meet with any of the factors just mentioned.

I can see helping out someone who has just recently fallen on hard times temporarily, but I'd strongly recommend that you find out as much about them beforehand as possible (references, emergency contact info, previous living arrangements, etc.) and impose some hard fast rules* as well.

For those who are hard-core unemployed, not in school, transients and street people, I'd recommend that you steer clear - particularly people you don't know very well, leave those cases to the professionals (regular shelters and other agencies).

* No unapproved visitors, no criminal activity, chores, cooking or eating privileges, etc.

In a nutshell make it clear that they have to demonstrate responsibility, follow your rules, and make some progress of sorts. If for whatever reason you don't like having them around, one way or another its time to send them on their way. Make it clear they're nothing more than a guest (not a tenant or resident) and help get them on their way ASAP the first time there's any real conflict.

Put your rules in writing and have them sign it. Aside from other suggestions, if they want mail have it sent c/o your name and address on the outside envelope. Any work beyond chores is considered voluntary. If you collect any sort of rent, let it be for the rental of a bed or vehicle parking as opposed to shelter space (a bed that can be carried to the curb if need be). No locks where you don't have a key, and only give them a key after they've shown they can be trusted. Be sure to have them sign off on a release of liability in the case of accidents too.

Disclaimer: None of this is legal advice, just personal advice.

[edit on 31-3-2009 by peopleunit]

[edit on 31-3-2009 by peopleunit]

Every country has different laws. Here in Canada if someone lives with you for a year and a half they can claim legal financial dependency for life. You may find yourself with a new daughter and granddaughter no matter what paperwork you sign.

Just my opinion without wanting to make a personal criticism - but I get a strange feeling there is more than just a benign gesture in the name of fairness being proposed here.

The proper way to do it would be to examine the legal ramifications first. These include labour laws and the economic dependency issues I mentioned.

For anyone inexperienced in sharing homes with others they haven't known for long, be prepared for the very worst case scenarios. People are not always what they seem to be, and in different situations their responses and priorities can change radically.

I haven't read every message on this thread, but at least one person mentioned that looking on ATS is not the appropriate forum even if this is aboveboard.

A local social working or community service where there is a file no someone might be a better place to start.


Mike

So why not just give? Matthew 5:42, the one the churches absolutely hate to read. I give to people instead of charities, I believe charity is an act of love and it starts at home and moves out into the neighborhood.

I have given thousands over the years to charities and churches. I have given to my community as a Firefighter and Victim Advocate with Law Enforcement.

Yet here I am in great need and not a single human will help me. I need a truck and trailer and boxes. I have to move and have no vehicle and live 11 miles from town. I hike in but can't get boxes home.

I have an ex that owes over $75,000 in back support but no lawyer will take our case because it will upset the rich.

I have been denied Medicaid in Nevada because my 9yo American child does not have a state sponsored picture ID.

I want to relocate to Idaho, but I have no way without a truck and trailer. And the funds to make them legal.

I have gone to over 1800 churches and charities in America, they all said "no, we don't help individuals."

We don't help each other either, so we complin about what the government does to us and what they take and we do the same to each other, all with the attitude, what's in it for me.

As for me and my daughter, we know that God will provide. And He doesn't have any strings attached.

That's a great idea, you have a big heart. The concept of community has been destroyed, no wonder people are so self-centered these days!

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Ok, I'm really confused.

Are all Americans really so scared of each other?

In the UK, many of us wouldn't see this is anything to require so much thought and consideration. You seriously don't know of anyone who needs this already?

You have space, people need a roof

If you don't already know of someone who could do with it, put and ad in the paper and see what happens. Speak to housing groups and charities. There is plenty of help out there if you just start looking for it.

Seriously, why are you all so terrified of your own shadows? Do you seriously believe that most other people are out to kill you or take advantage?

I admire the sentiment, but I'm quite shocked at the complete distrust people have for other humans, as if a homeless person is automatically a criminal, a lower-class citizen or a thug.
That part of it is really quite sad.

Pretty cool. Reminds me of the "Pay it Forward" movie.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Seriously, why are you all so terrified of your own shadows? Do you seriously believe that most other people are out to kill you or take advantage?

I admire the sentiment, but I'm quite shocked at the complete distrust people have for other humans

Its not surprising in a country where the news make it sound like everybody it out to get you, where you can lose your job in a second, where you can end up on the street if you have no money etc... its a scary country.

reply to post by aLiiEn


In the Philippines it is the norm to take in a less fortunate one as a domestic helper. For a bed to sleep in and basic needs met they are happy to assist the family and take great pride in doing so. In turn they are treated with respect and as friend. Opportunities arise that are not otherwise possible with the lack of resources and education found on the street. Why should anyone ride for free. Any self respecting person does not want a free ride.

I know...such a foreign concept for a consumer based western culture.

yea, sure, gesture of humanity, he just want a free maid and nanny for his kids

you know you have to pay salary for live-in maid/nanny ? its £200 per week here

OUR FAMILY HAS DONE AS MUCH AND SUGGEST YOU WORK THROUGH YOUR CHURCH OR A LOCAL CHURCH OR EVEN FAMILY CONTACTS, ALWAYS A COUSIN OR FAMILY MEMBER IN NEED. ALSO, IT IS RIGHT TO EXPECT THAT HOUSE MEMBERS , JUST AS FAMILY, CARRY THEIR OWN WEIGHT WITH CHORES AND HOUSE HOLD MAINTAINANCE. THATS THE WAY IT WORKS AROUND OUR FARM.

This single mother can live in my house if she performs certain duties, such as cleaning, cooking, helping OUR children study, and spending time searching for a job

What you describe already *is* a job.

It's a nice idea and everything, but all those things take time and effort and you'd have to pay for them if you wanted them to be done by anyone else.
(And who would help HER child study?)

Wow, thats great. If ii only had a home of my own. There should be some type of organization dedicated to this, that takes care of the paperwork, and unites families in need with those that are willing to help. GREAT POST!!