You must reply this to this thread, because I have an idea,... help is needed.

This would put us in control of our own lives to a great degree.
Ah - what a concept.

Very doable and perfect timing.
Our very own version of a healthy New World Order.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by spinkyboo]

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam



Gee - your post reeks of selfish unrightousness!

First, it is NOT "charity" to demand free slave labor.

Second, there's are loads of legal boundaries you cross with this idea.

Third, there isn't a single "secure" person on earth. You might be rolling in dough today; and tomorrow it could be YOU and your family on the street. Life is unpredictable.

First... I know it's not charity!!! It's socialism... I give you something, and you give me something... and we are both happy!!! But I will be giving more.

Second... I know ther are legal ramifications, but those legal ramifications are only to the government / state... We the People have the Power!

Third... I don't care about tomorrow, I care about Today!!!... And Today, I can be helping somebody. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.

It is called barter and you have something someone needs that is food and shelter and that someone has services to offer that you need and that is help around the house.

Things like the OP is suggesting has been tried, just in the last few years.
Hundreds of people let Katrina victims move in with them here in Texas and a lot of them had problems with them pretty quickly.

Once you let someone move in to your home, it damn near takes an act of congress to get them back out.

Its a touching offer but be careful

That is great I feel the same way. We are coming to a time where all of us will have to come together as brothers and sisters

reply to post by whoshotJR


It's because you're a scared person. Afraid people have a tendency to rationalize fear.

Doomsday, I applaud you. When I get back home, be sure that I will honor your commitment with my own.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Doomsday,

I can tell you are still a young lad who is far too impregnated with chauvinistic cultural views that, in all likelihood, would not be very popular among the majority of women in this country today.

"Women" are no better with children than men....that's a misnomer. Men who are not good with their children are that way because they choose to be. There are MANY single Dads out there who are playing both roles, and doing a fantastic job at it! That's just an excuse in my book...

Equally, "women" are no better at housework than men. Most men are raised by pampering mothers who treat them as if they don't have to pull their weight around the house, which produces a grown man who feels housework is for "the little woman", and he's too good to get his hands dirty. A good stint in the military usually wakes them up to their pansy attitudes about housework and "his and hers". You mess it up, you'd better get your happy rear in there and clean it up - WITH a good attitude! I can't count how many marriages I've seen fall apart because of this one item alone...it's sad really. Perhaps if their fathers had spent more time setting good examples in the home for them, they wouldn't have been raised to think that women pop out of the womb WANTING to change stinky diapers, clean the toilets, wash her husband's sweaty clothes, and cook for an ungrateful husband....quite a thankless job that no woman I've known ever stumbles gracefully into. I've come to appreciate all the hard-working women I know, and their job is the hardest one I can think of.

If you found a wife who happily serves you in this capacity with no complaints, then good on you....is she Asian? My gut tells me that your attitude towards women probably makes for interesting topics in your home.

But hey, the topic is about helping the homeless. I would concentrate on that, but the wording you've used seemed to take center stage with me. It no longer appears to me that you are interested in helping a homeless person....it appears you are far more interested in using the homeless issue to take advantage and get free labor WHILE demeaning the female population to boot.

You mentioned that most American women would choose a strict home arrangement over a tent.....well, logic tells me that the ones who would are not the ones who are going to react kindly when they have to clean your toilets or babysit your kids, nor would they be ones you would want in your home around your children. Furthermore, I think you underestimate women - at least the ones I know! I know plenty of women who regularly live in tents for vacation purposes, and love it.

Again, I don't mean to be harsh, but you've stated some pretty outdated views that I'm surprised haven't been addressed yet! Here's the test for you....you can help homeless people (not just women) get on their feet WITHOUT the free labor. Here's the problem....you think it is an even exchange. In today's world, it is not. As I said before, maids, nanny's and chefs fetch a rather pretty penny. If they are live-in's, then they certainly still get a healthy stipend.

Again, my advice is to let the labor issue go....if you truly want to help, donate your time for FREE to your local shelter or food bank. Offer to shuttle people to job interviews. Buy groceries for them. But my guess is you are too stuck on getting something in return. You've outlined a pretty extensive way of "screening" for this woman....this is something employers of big companies do. Yet, you do not plan to pay her.

A homeless person is not a "thing", to be used at your disposal....it could be you one day. If you truly want to help, then HELP! But don't ask for anything in return. That's true charity, my friend.

reply to post by emeraldzeus


OMG!!! I wish I could give you more than 1 star!!!
2nd line...1st line bears repeating

Do not let people into your home if you do not know them. Doing so could pose a risk to you and your family.

If you think you can pull people off the street and into your home, you need to seriously re-examine your thought process.

This is the type of attitude and compassionate giving that will save us. The best of what we are and our future is in this gesture.

Sure all the practical stuff is there to, to do things intelligently, and that will come when it comes, but what comes from giving is ten times the reward.

S&F

You save hope by making this offer publicly.

Thank You

ZG

[edit on 3/27/2009 by ZeroGhost]

reply to post by emeraldzeus


Let's maybe not micromanage this person. Take the gesture how it was meant. Unconditional giving. This persons version.

If you where drowning, would you take the hand of a killer to be saved, or would you judge him and drown, refusing his gesture?

Standards are not reality. They are not aware of each person we meet. I would rather celebrate the good of someone else we do not know.

Sure his philosophy is not as advanced as yours, but like teaching a child, encourage the good, short note the bad. Maybe save the judgments for a greater spirit.

We have a meritocracy here. Sexism is stone age. Everyone gets it eventually. No need to push too hard.

ZG

ZG

Hey chief, why wouldn't you allow a single MAN and his daughter/son to stay at your house?

If you aren't planning on having sex with this "servant", then why would you care if this parent is a mother or father?

What, you don't trust your wife? Then why should your wife trust you with this desperate woman you want to let into your home?

Why don't you just come out and admit you want to live the "Big Love" polygamist Mormon lifestyle?

Let's just say it's obvious you're not thinking with your heart, but perhaps a different organ.

Doomsday: Two purely personal observations, on my part.

Q1. What is the most important function that humanity performs?
A1. Ensuring the continuity of the human species. Since no function dependant or reliant on the existence of humanity can occur, without the existence of humanity.

Q2. Why is that not obvious to humanity?
A2. Because humanity does not experience reality directly. Instead, each experiences their own unique and personal interpretation of reality. Which, without means for direct comparison with the original, may be mistaken for an experience of actual reality.

Which leads me to conclude that:- matters which currently divide us, such as religion and science, are merely tools being utilised by humanity to aid survival.

But that’s just an interpretation, arrived at by a single member of the difference pool.

If this person really wanted to help her, he wouldn't require employment, just to keep her half clean. Instead of tutoring his kids, he would ask her to to to NA and counseling to better herself and for her family.

That is my idea of helping someone.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


What about single dads with one kid? Are you sexist?

Originally posted by emeraldzeus

Doomsday,

I can tell you are still a young lad who is far too impregnated with chauvinistic cultural views that, in all likelihood, would not be very popular among the majority of women in this country today.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. If we took a survey of 1,000 single women with a child that are living on the street, or in a shelter, or in a tent... I'm almost positive that over 95% of them would not hesitate to take my offer.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
"Women" are no better with children than men....that's a misnomer. Men who are not good with their children are that way because they choose to be. There are MANY single Dads out there who are playing both roles, and doing a fantastic job at it! That's just an excuse in my book...

Sure their are fantastic dads out their, but I stand firm in my statement. Women are better with children. Go to any daycare or elementary school and tell me how many teachers are female. When you are searching for a teenage babysitter, what are the chances that this babysitter will be a female?

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
Equally, "women" are no better at housework than men. Most men are raised by pampering mothers who treat them as if they don't have to pull their weight around the house, which produces a grown man who feels housework is for "the little woman", and he's too good to get his hands dirty. A good stint in the military usually wakes them up to their pansy attitudes about housework and "his and hers". You mess it up, you'd better get your happy rear in there and clean it up - WITH a good attitude! I can't count how many marriages I've seen fall apart because of this one item alone...it's sad really. Perhaps if their fathers had spent more time setting good examples in the home for them, they wouldn't have been raised to think that women pop out of the womb WANTING to change stinky diapers, clean the toilets, wash her husband's sweaty clothes, and cook for an ungrateful husband....quite a thankless job that no woman I've known ever stumbles gracefully into. I've come to appreciate all the hard-working women I know, and their job is the hardest one I can think of.

And you want to criticize me for stereotyping women? Just look at the hypocrisy of that statement. And Who says the husband is usually ungrateful for the woman's work? I don't know what relationships you've witnessed, but if a woman does this kind of work for a man, usually the husband should be thankful for it right? Oh wait... I forgot, you are stereotyping men again.

who's the one impregnated with chauvinistic cultural views again? My GOD! Only if every man spent a little time in the military, then he'd do more around the house. Get the hell out of here with that crap. But Hey don't worry,... HR 1388 got passed by the Senate.

And I know plenty of women that are stay at home moms and take pride in it. To be honest, the fact that both parents now have to work a 9-5 job is the real problem with our youth. 12 hours out of the day a child has no contact with his mother or father. If I made enough money, my wife wouldn't have to work, and this is exactly what she would want. She can get more work done at home, and spend more time with the kids.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
If you found a wife who happily serves you in this capacity with no complaints, then good on you....is she Asian? My gut tells me that your attitude towards women probably makes for interesting topics in your home.

LOL!!! Is she Asian? So now we are going to stereotype asians too? My wife does this kind of work, and of course there are going to be complaints. There is also going to be compromise.

My gut feeling tells me your attitude towards men & Asians would probably make for an interesting topic in your home.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
But hey, the topic is about helping the homeless. I would concentrate on that, but the wording you've used seemed to take center stage with me. It no longer appears to me that you are interested in helping a homeless person....it appears you are far more interested in using the homeless issue to take advantage and get free labor WHILE demeaning the female population to boot.

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying: "I'll help you, and you help me". Make no mistake about it, I'll be doing the most helping, and would get very little in return.

And if it appears that I'm looking to take to take advantage of the homeless and demeaning the female population... then that's your problem.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
You mentioned that most American women would choose a strict home arrangement over a tent.....well, logic tells me that the ones who would are not the ones who are going to react kindly when they have to clean your toilets or babysit your kids, nor would they be ones you would want in your home around your children. Furthermore, I think you underestimate women - at least the ones I know! I know plenty of women who regularly live in tents for vacation purposes, and love it.

Yea, camping is fun, but living in a tent compared to a vacation is different. I want to know how many of these women you know went camping an entire winter in the middle of DOWNTOWN with very little supplies... and oh yea, had her CHILD with her too! This is less about helping the woman, and more about the child.

You are really going to sit there and tell me that

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
Again, I don't mean to be harsh, but you've stated some pretty outdated views that I'm surprised haven't been addressed yet! Here's the test for you....you can help homeless people (not just women) get on their feet WITHOUT the free labor. Here's the problem....you think it is an even exchange. In today's world, it is not. As I said before, maids, nanny's and chefs fetch a rather pretty penny. If they are live-in's, then they certainly still get a healthy stipend.

I don't think it's an even exchange... I'm letting someone live in my house for free. It would only make sense that they help out around the house.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
Again, my advice is to let the labor issue go....if you truly want to help, donate your time for FREE to your local shelter or food bank. Offer to shuttle people to job interviews. Buy groceries for them. But my guess is you are too stuck on getting something in return. You've outlined a pretty extensive way of "screening" for this woman....this is something employers of big companies do. Yet, you do not plan to pay her.

This is the only decent point you've made in this thread. Like I said, my plan isn't perfect, and it's risky... And yea it might seem selfish to expect something in return, but if you are going to live in my house, I would be foolish to let you stay there and demand nothing in return. That's not fair to my children or my wife.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
A homeless person is not a "thing", to be used at your disposal....it could be you one day. If you truly want to help, then HELP! But don't ask for anything in return. That's true charity, my friend.

Wow... I could of sworn homeless people weren't human. And I thought my home was the only thing that defined who I am as a person. My mistake.

All I know is RIGHT NOW I have a pretty good living conditions. I'd be willing to share these comfortable living conditions so "40-year-old-Sally" and "7-year-old-Billy" don't have to live in a tent. All I ask in return is to do a few of my chores and run a few of my errands.

You seem to think "Sally" would prefer to have her "7-year-old-son Billy" live in the tent during the hot summers, and the freezing winters, because they don't want to cook healthy dinners, have access to a washer and dryer, mop some hard wood floors under a roof, and play with my children.

Okay... I'll take your word for it.





And for all those asking: Why the woman and not the man?

Isn't there an expression: "Women and Children First" ?

I'm worried about the non-mutual sexual attraction problem popping up. I myself have experienced more UNWANTED situations, where I HAD to be put with a guy, in either a work or roommate circumstance. I was always single, and --immediately-- the fishing for info began like, "So do you or did you have a boyfriend or husband, and if so, why not, and what are you doing Friday night, etc etc..." And when -one- person feels pushed to --rebuff--, well, the hurt feelings and hurt ego, and anger begin to create BAD results. I recently had run an ad seeking a quiet place to live, to escape my noisy apartment. I do not recieve enough income to have my own house on a big yard. This man offered me a room in his house. I immediately said, "I'm not wanting a companion situation, I -only- want to be a renting tennant" (and be left alone...) The guy goes, "Oh, uh, how much were you not willing to pay over? Ummm, I need more than that, well, oh well, uh I gotta go......"
All I'm saying is WATCH OUT for that common human problem.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Hey chief, why wouldn't you allow a single MAN and his daughter/son to stay at your house?

If you aren't planning on having sex with this "servant", then why would you care if this parent is a mother or father?

What, you don't trust your wife? Then why should your wife trust you with this desperate woman you want to let into your home?

Why don't you just come out and admit you want to live the "Big Love" polygamist Mormon lifestyle?

Let's just say it's obvious you're not thinking with your heart, but perhaps a different organ.

Whether or not the OP has hidden intentions is unclear.
Regardless, you made me laugh quite loudly with your post
LMAO! Big love Mormons!
I haven't heard that one but believe me I will never forget it.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by Doomsday 2029

 

What about single dads with one kid? Are you sexist?

Hey that's a good question. There are lots of single dads with only one child who probably need a place to stay for a while as well.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


OK Doomsday, let's keep it real. I'm not going to respond to your allegations towards me, but I will address the legal ramifications of what you are suggesting. I'll leave your chauvinistic views to your wife to deal with....lucky her.

I've poked all kinds of holes in your supposed "act of kindness". And yes, I do think it's shady and selfish of you to expect something in return....vile, even. You don't understand the concept of charity. What you want is an indentured servant.

An indentured servant is a form of debt bondage worker. The laborer is under contract of an employer for usually three to seven years, in exchange for their transportation, food, drink, clothing, lodging and other necessities. Unlike a slave, an indentured servant is required to work only for a limited term specified in a signed contract.

Now, here's where it gets sticky. If you contract a foreigner for this offer of "charity" (which I'm using rather sarcastically), then you will be breaking the law. Even IF the homeless person voluntarily signs the contract with you. Indentured servitude was abolished by the 13th amendment to the constitution. However, if you contract a domestic American, well.....the laws are different. Funny how our laws protect foreigners but not our own, eh?

BUT, it is not unheard of for lawsuits to find their way to courts which involve indentured servitude of Americans. So, my friend, what you want is illegal. Take your chances if you dare, but I'm hoping you're wise enough to listen to perfect strangers, or at least do your homework before you find yourself behind bars or paying a hefty fine because your "servant" decided to take you to court. Even PRISONS have to be careful about how they make their prisoners work. What makes you think you can get away with it with a single, homeless Mom with a child?

If true charity is your goal, then I've already outlined what that entails. If cheap labor is your goal, then you'll have to suck it up like the rest of us and pay for services rendered. But what you're asking for is voluntary, contracted FREE labor, in exchange for room and board for an extended amount of time....no matter what kind of spin or "explanation" you try to put on it, it's not legal, but above all, it's morally deprived.



[edit on 3/27/2009 by emeraldzeus]

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Actually, what you are talking about is a truly free market. You would have something the move-in wanted and she would have what you want as payment. As long as both parties consent to the terms of the contract, it's a market decision- one that may be social in nature but not socialist.