Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

And as for rape or incest? Using extreme examples to defend the practice is why the practice is so wide spread in the first place.

So you'd make exceptions?

So is there a point where abortion becomes acceptable to the pro-lifers?

I'd love to see the statistics on how many pro-lifers actually do adopt the babies that are born under these circumstances and give them a good life. Do they provide the mother with all the psychological therapy they might need after carrying a constant reminder of a traumatic occurrence? I would hazard that most write a check to some religious charity and sit back feeling all smug about how they are 'making a difference.'

I read the 'baby found in dumpster', 'baby left on hospital steps' type headlines all the time. Is this better for the babies, the mothers?
Children starve to death all the time. Rarely do you see pro-life advocates inviting them over for dinner every night.
Again, the charity check washes their conscious clean. Allows for more after dinner discussion and righteous indignation.

Yes, abortion is ugly, but I would never expect anyone to give up their choices based on my own feelings/faith/hatred etc. Doing that would make me just as monstrous.

I'll let george speak for me on this one. Definitely a warning on this for sensitive viewers. Nothing as graphic as, say - a live abortion.

Google Video Link

[edit on 26-3-2009 by tasteslikethunder]

[edit on 26-3-2009 by tasteslikethunder]

Originally posted by Rentor
Personally i am against abortion and don't say your abortion doesn't affect anyone, because it actually does.

Let's say your son our daughter in the future saw someone being raped and they could had stop it...but sadly that girl who is being raped and probably brutally murder afterwords. Had nobody to rescue her because you decided to go with abortion.

This can be applied to anything also like your kid good had been great scientist and cure aids,cancer,heart problems...etc you understand

Hmmmm.... Lessee. Given that children who are unloved, neglected and/or abused have a vastly higher incidence of sociopathy and psychopathy, would we be more likely to end the progression of the vessal's development for an Einstein or a Hitler...?

Playing the "might be" card is absurd.

I couldn't find much Concrete evidence on Pro-choice violence except this;
Pro-choice violence and arson
And this
and this
Here's a good video from Alex!

I don't understand this: why could I kill an unborn child (which is a different entity than me) and I can't kill him/her afterwards, or rape him/her or make it my slave? Why is that not OK?
It's like pro-abortion people see that unborn child as their property or something... why it's any different when it's actually born?
Just because you can't see it first it's something different? A lesser being?

I saw that kind of videos... just imagining I could condone that sent a shiver down my spine. I knew women who had aborted and their life turned to a psychological hell... others didn't care that much.

I can understand someone misguided or poorly informed making that kind of decision. But I can't understand how someone well informed, who watched these kind of stuff and is well aware of what's going on, doesn't care about the suffering they're commiting.

But then again, I've read blogs of people that let their cats die because they didn't care for them (and made a blog boasting about it), or individuals that get sexually aroused seeing murders perpetrated. And I don't understand either of them.

Originally posted by seb2882
I don't understand this: why could I kill an unborn child (which is a different entity than me) and I can't kill him/her afterwards, or rape him/her or make it my slave? Why is that not OK?

Because, if any of several Gods (including the Biblical one) is to be believed, the vessel (fetus) has no soul until first breath. Once a soul has entered, you now have an ensouled being - which deserves the respect and honor that you, yourself might want.

Until then, it is only a vessel.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Easy enough, its a woman's choice. Why the hell should the government hold that kind of power over a persons body? Besides its the Republicans who want that power and aren't they the ones who are supposed to be against the government doing that? But then again they want armed guards in every bedroom to make sure it is a man and a woman, married, doing it with the man on top.

reply to post by Monger


Your answer wasn't a valid one because it did not answer what I had asked.

I do not count discomfort as a health risk, I do not count stretch marks as a health risk.


The child maybe unwanted by the mother, but there are many out there who would love to adopt a newborn. If there is not a health risk to the mother what is the harm in adoption?

I ask again.

Please do not respond unless you have an answer for the question I asked.

reply to post by Amaterasu


I don't believe in any God other than my own beliefs. It's simple empathy with another living creature.



[edit on 26-3-2009 by seb2882]

reply to post by jasonjnelson


There is no defense for abortion, its wrong plain and simple, however I think it should be legal in those instances where both the child and mother have little chance of both getting through childbirth.

Science tells us that once the egg is fertilized the DNA of both parents melds into a separate unique blend, a new individual's DNA code is born. The fetus is a separate organism and what's more it is a human being, it doesn't have the DNA of some other animal, its genetic make-up is that of a human.

I seem to remember having an inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness but apparently because a fetus is just some nondescript lump of cells they can be denied those rights

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by Heike
The "pro-abortion" people will never try to force anyone to have an abortion.

Yet you call them "pro-abortion"

The "pro-life" people try to force people to have babies they don't want, all the time.

I have never seen a Anti-infanticide advocate force anyone to have sex to get pregnant

Pro-abortion is pro freedom, pro privacy, pro choice. Let each family be responsible for your own.

No they are not pro freedom, in fact they bring an infant who didn't ask for this the freedom to live long enough to experience excruciating pain, rejection, fear and punishment because he was guitly of living a crappy life and cramping a womans lifestyle, affecting her precious vanity because she may very well have had a stretch mark or two.

Have you read the stories of the government taking peoples' children away because they "weren't raising them right"?

You got a problem with that?

This is where the idea that we have a right to control other people and make them do what we think is right has taken us.

I see where your particular ideology has brought you. I never thought I'd see the day where a Mother would angrily argue for what seems to be, an Opportunity to execute their own offspring using the most shallow excuses from obscure, rare events such as rape where the percentage of raped woman getting pregenant by their rapist is so few it doesn't merit justification for all, to these prophetic assertions they knew the child would grow up a terrible existence, most likely from a crystall ball or sylvia brown.

This has always been a problem for humanity, and humanity has always chosen in favor of the mother.

Isn't Humanity Civilized!

Before we had birth control and medical procedures, families took their newborn babies out to the "wilderness" to die of exposure or be taken by predators and scavengers.

What's your point?

If you don't approve of that,

No, I do NOT approve of that, in fact I find it repugnant and If I ever catch a woman or man doing taking their kids to a desert and deserting them to die alone in a desert or of exposure, the would be telling the truth for the first time about someone shoving something down their throats and know the difference between the two when it isn't just being used as a metaphor about those pesky equal rights for infants people

then you don't have to do it. No one is asking you to

You ever have an 18 year old come up to you and say "Thank you" , not knowing who they are, you say: For what?

They disclose a story told to them about how happy they are you helped save their life 18 years ago, when the mother who adopted that 18 year old, told her who it was that persuaded a confused girl from making the biggest mistake of her life executing her own daughter.

Then see that same i8 year old find out who her biological mother was and have her ask to meet you also, so she could thank you for keeping her from doing something she knew by then would have been killing the very young girl that was now someone she got to know and someone she realizes is no less a person now than she was when the doctors told her she was an "IT"?

Makes it all worth the effort, inspite of the accusations we "shove opinions down anyones throat" To DATE: I have never seen anyone cough up an opinion a pro-lifer allegedly shoved down anyones throat.

It is for THAT reason, when I hear that,, I know they not only are lying, but I know why they lie also. I mean afterall, we are talking about the kind of people that would execute their own sons and daughters for having the AUDACITY of tresspassing in their mothers womb.

But lying?? Now THAT is when it is going over the line!

PfffT!

But where do you get the right to tell me that I have to behave according to your standards?

Well that is kind of Ironic when you think about the excuses used to justify playing God and terminating a life of an innocent. what gives me the right?

I DO!

If you're going to oppose abortion like this, better be careful and think it through. Because the flip side of taking away the right to choose from other people is that other people may get to make rules about how you can raise your children.

Oh Ill take my chances with that one,, you see I think having someone who can't even keep a child alive 9 short months wouldn't have much on those of us that can.

Don't want your kids in public school? Too bad, it's the law.

No it isn't

Think a swat on the rear is good discipline?

No but it does make for a consequence but I'd rather have a parent that swats me on the rear in love than a mother who shoves a probe in my occipital bone and turns what's inside to brain salad surgery

No, it's abuse.

And yet what you argue for has nothing to do with anyone's suffering from abuse, the kind where the result is always the same.

DEATH!

Watch your kids get raised by strangers while you fight to stay out of jail.
Is hamburger or pizza a good kids' meal? Not any more, you better feed them according to our nutritional plan or we'll take them away from you.

Sounds to me you have a very poor opinion of yourself and I only hope that since you seem to already know you would make a lousy parent, why have it confirmed when you can flush the biological human reminder of your low self esteem when you can blame the baby instead!

Never having to feel the separation of your own flesh and blood in the loving arms of someone more qualified as a Parent than you assume you could ever be much less want to.

I watched your video. Doesn't change a thing.

You trying to impress me with how cold callous and hearless you can be, how un affected you are watching a victim of the most systematic, Government sanctioned Government endorsed genocide of the youngest and weakest Americans, singled out by a segment of society that is alive to talk about it by the grace of God, and someone like me who most likely talked someone like your own mother out of flushing their kid down the toilet like a goldfhish, in an act of infanticidal euthanasia

That who you are talking about?


[edit on 26-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

Pro Choice politics is a remnant of the ever selfish baby boomer generation who changed our culture from one of family, work and sacrifice...into a culture of a personal pursuit of happiness at the expense of anyone.

If pro abortion advocates don' like this video....I would love to see a video educating us about real abortions from their perspective. Sho me the process, sho me how great it is. If you can't- shut up and ponder how selfish you could possibly be.

It all boils down to love...misdirected. Do you love your boyfriend more than your child? Do you love your self more than your child?

It is your child...because when you get pregnant and you want it you KNOW it is your baby and you love it immediately.

Abortion is wrong in my book...dont want a baby, don't have sex-seems really easy to me. I have never understood why people don't get that little rule.

We do make judgements. It is a fundamental survival skill of our species. If my judgements make you mad, you should examine that and consider is it possible you have chosen the selfish way?

I am person who makes lots of terrible and selfish decisions for which I am sorry, but I have two beautiful children who I would not give up for anything. Love more important than eduacation, more important than housing, more important than your looks, more important than anything.

You can't have it all and when choosing what to have...choose people.

[edit on 3/26/2009 by Missing Blue Sky]

[edit on 3/26/2009 by Missing Blue Sky]

[edit on 3/26/2009 by Missing Blue Sky]

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
Maybe my argument IS the video of a fetus trying to save it's own life. Do I really need more to show barberacy?

Soooo, you believe that a fetus in the womb has the mental faculties to recognize that a vacuum is a threat to it's life and makes the decision to try evasive maneuvers?? You're argument is severely flawed, since not only is it making an assumption, it's making an assumption that is quite frankly impossible. Babies are born helpless, we are some of the only creatures born this way. They are not able to recognize threats as it is not even possible for them to defend themselves against them. Humans are not sharks, our babies don't come out fighting and hunting, the fact that ANYTHING is a threat is learned. Abortions are horrible and if I were a woman I would want to do anything in my power to avoid one, but it's not my choice to make for somebody else. I do agree with late term bans except for cases of danger to the mother.

The term "pro-abortion" is stupid, since there are VERY few people who enjoy and recommend them to others. And it is also stupid to think a fetus knows that it needs to save it's own life. That'd make it alot easier to raise children though, too bad it's not that way or else there would be alot less child drownings, children being hit by cars, etc.

reply to post by Viral


You are comparing unwanted fetuses in the first stages of pregnancy to people who are already living without the help of a mother's womb. Personally this argument is flawed to me because one has nothing to do with the other. It's not a sound comparison.

Many anti-abortion people I know are conservatives who are against multiple forms of Welfare. Are you for Welfare? Are you for paying more for Welfare in taxes? The truth of the matter is all of these unwanted babies being born is going to cost a lot of money, they're going to end up in all kinds of foster care situations as well, and eventually we'll be paying for a good chunk of them who will be in and out of the prison system.

At the end of the day money isn't what is important though, raising a healthy human being is, but with without abortion millions more of unwanted children will be fighting against all the odds for a good life, and many will not succeed, many will not have the parental guidance they need to succeed. I ask anyone who is pro-life if they are willing to be a foster care parent for the rest of their lives. Are they willing to adopt? Are they willing to take any responsibility for the mass of unwanted children they wish to see brought into the world? If so then I believe your heart is in the right place, even if I disagree with you. If not, there’s no way your pro-life argument will ever gain any traction. It’s easy to say life is important and should be protected no matter what, what’s hard is showing that you actually believe this by supporting people’s lives once they get here.

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
Pro Choise politics is a remnant of the ever selfish baby boomer generation who changed our culture from one of family, work and sacrifice...into a culture of a personal pursuit of happiness at the expense of anyone.

Really? Let's look at history a bit....

2600 BC –First recorded recipe for an abortion producing drug.
1850 BC –Egyptians record recipe for contraceptive pessaries, one made from crocodile dung.

4th Century AD –St.Augustine lays down Catholic dogma sanctioning abortion up to 80 days for female fetus and up to 40 days for male fetus.
13th Century AD -St.Thomas Aquinas states Catholic dogma justifying sexual intercourse only for procreation.
1564 AD -Italian anatomist, Fallopius, discoverer of Fallopian tubes, publicizes condoms as anti-venereal disease devices.
1588 – Pope Sixtus forbids all abortions.
1591 – Pope Gregory XIV rescinds Pope Sixtus’ edict against abortion.
1803 – Great Britain makes abortion a misdemeanor.
1821 – Connecticut outlaws abortion after quickening, early abortions are legal.
1860’s – All states pass comprehensive, criminal abortion laws. Most remain until 1973.
1869 – Pope Pius IX forbids all abortions in exchange for France’s Napoleon III acknowledging papal infallibility. France’s population experienced a sharp decrease over the previous 60 years.
1873 – Federal Comstock laws enacted prohibiting mailing or distribution of information on birth control and abortion.
1879 – Margaret Higgins Sanger is born. She led the movement for birth control in the U.S.
1882 – First “modern” birth control clinic in the world opens in Holland, sponsored by trade unions.
1913 – Margaret Sanger arrested for violation of Comstock laws because of feminist birth control columns in, The Woman Rebel.
1916 - Margaret Sanger & her sister, Ethel Byrne jailed for dispensing contraceptive information at first American birth control clinic in Brooklyn, NY.
1924 – First scientific confirmation of women’s ovulatory and fertility cycle.
1930 – Pope Pius XI affirms Catholic dogma that every act of sexual intercourse is a sin unless performed with a reproductive intent.
1942 – Margaret Sanger’s Birth Control Federation of America becomes Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
1956 – Dr. John Rock (a Catholic) and others developed the birth control pill. Their research was funded by two women.
1960’s – FBI crime reports showed organized crime rings made enormous profits performing dangerous abortions. Any doctors caught performing a safe abortion were sent to prison, fined, and had their medical license taken away.
1963 – Pope Paul IV issues encyclical Humanae Vitae condemning artificial birth control.
1965 – In Griswold v. Connecticut, U.S. Supreme Court rules Connecticut’s law prohibiting birth control for married couples violates a newly defined right of marital privacy.
1967 – Then-Governor Ronald Reagan of California signs the most liberal abortion law of the times allowing freedom of choice during the first 20 weeks of pregnancy.
1970 – Hawaii, Alaska, and New York repeal criminal abortion laws allowing abortion in the first trimester.
1970 – Belotti v Baird II decision allows states to require parental consent for abortion so long as there is a confidential judicial bypass.
1972 – Supreme Court finds the right to privacy of unmarried persons violated by Massachusetts law against distribution of contraceptives in Eisenstadt v Baird. Justice Brennan in the majority opinion states that all Americans have a right to bear and beget children free from government interference.
1973 – On January 22, 1973 the U.S. Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision, hands down Roe v Wade making a 1st trimester abortion a private decision between a woman & her physician. In the 2nd trimester states
can put limitations on abortion with regard to the health of the pregnant woman. In the 3rd trimester states can make abortion illegal except to save the life of the woman.
1973 – Indiana passes first call for a Constitutional Convention to ban abortion.
1974 - Hope Clinic for Women in Granite City, IL, opens as one of the first abortion providers.
1976 – Hyde Amendment is passed barring the use of federal Medicaid funds to provide abortions to poor women.
1977 – A revised Hyde Amendment is passed which allows states to deny Medicaid funding except in cases of rape, incest, or severe and long lasting damage to the woman’s physical health. Rosise Jimenez, a 27- year-old mother on welfare, died of an illegal abortion as she could not afford to get a legal abortion due to the Hyde Amendment.
1977 – First reported arson at an abortion clinic (in St. Paul, MN) and first know bombing of an abortion clinic (in Cincinnati, OH).
1980 – 19 of the 34 states required have passed calls for a Constitutional Convention.
www.hopeclinic.com...

I cut it at 1980, cuz anything after that is the baby boomers' faults, according to you...

reply to post by 27jd

You said babies are born helpless, and therefore before they are born there is no way they could react to an invasion of the placenta. Well, babies are not nonthinking blobs of tissue. My newborns had reflexes to loud sounds and light and that is in the first 24 hrs, even my premature baby...so they so have reflexes-because they have a nervous system. It is one of the first things that develops. This is natures way of protecting the species, to react to stimuli around it.

You really do deny the fetus is a person don't you? Once the egg is fertlized it is alive and it is on a journey to death...that is what we call a life.

reply to post by 27jd


I was writing from an American perspective and referring to Roe V. Wade.

Your limited historical timeline does not refer to how Americans used to be family and sacrifice oriented and now are individualist and materialistic. That was my point. Very good cutting and pasting...good job...but what do YOU believe?

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky

dont want a baby, don't have sex-seems really easy to me. I have never understood why people don't get that little rule.

Because this little rule of yours doesn’t exist and is incredibly naïve. Every sexually active person on the planet who is capable of conceiving should not be expected to want a child. There are plenty of married couples who have children and are sexually active but do not wish to have another. They protect themselves with birth control, as many others do, but birth control is not 100% and when mistakes are made people deserve options if they do not wish to have a baby. They can abort within the early stages or they can choose adoption or they can keep the baby. This choice is up to them, it is part of millions of separate situations. Please do not presume you can boil this issue down to that one silly rule. There are also people who conceive due to rape, they don’t have a say in the matter, the sex is entirely forced on them.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by 27jd

Soooo, you believe that a fetus in the womb has the mental faculties to recognize that a vacuum is a threat to it's life and makes the decision to try evasive maneuvers?? You're argument is severely flawed, since not only is it making an assumption, it's making an assumption that is quite frankly impossible. Babies are born helpless, we are some of the only creatures born this way. They are not able to recognize threats as it is not even possible for them to defend themselves against them. Humans are not sharks, our babies don't come out fighting and hunting, the fact that ANYTHING is a threat is learned. Abortions are horrible and if I were a woman I would want to do anything in my power to avoid one, but it's not my choice to make for somebody else. I do agree with late term bans except for cases of danger to the mother.

The term "pro-abortion" is stupid, since there are VERY few people who enjoy and recommend them to others. And it is also stupid to think a fetus knows that it needs to save it's own life. That'd make it alot easier to raise children though, too bad it's not that way or else there would be alot less child drownings, children being hit by cars, etc.

Ha ha WoW, let me guess, you are the "logical one" and why? Because it isn't murder if a baby doesn't know something is a threat and doesn't know what hit him so??

You know how effective that defense would have been had Jack Ruby not killed Oswald so he could stand trial and say "What? he didn't know what hit him! He wasn't even aware the street he was driving down was going to get him killed! so it's not like I commited murder."

Since I don't believe in God, and he was shut off like a switch, he doesn't even know he existed to even know what he ever knew in all the years he was alive so what difference does it make, he may as well have been a fetus and it's legal to kill them your honor"


Like I said, it never ceases to amaze me the tortuerously construed alibi's and excuses people come up with to commit such a grisley act.

I would think doing such a thing would make people who attempt to make them aware of how incidious it is would be hated by them.


We are used to it, and,,

we're KoO like that

Interesting to read this thread,obviously one of THE most sensitive and opinion-producing subjects of our time.

My 2 cents as a female:

Have the babies you can afford to support based soley on your own decision.