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Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

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posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


Right, like I havn't done that before.
Those threads are ignored.


This is just one front in the overall battle.
Showing those who support abortion the facts about it, and what it looks like.

Like a vegan showing a cow-slaughter to a meat eater.

And I am adopted, so there is one option for you...
Responsible sexual practices are another.




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


So, your logic based theads are ignored, so you have to go for the video propoganda that just screams for an emotional response?

Now, I understand.

Adoption is an alternative, but it shouldn't be the only alternative. What about rape and incest? Should women be forced to have children created from an act of violence?

Safe sex is an alternative, but it isn't always fool-proof.




[edit on 3/25/2009 by skeptic1]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


I've seen you here before skeptic, and you seem to have it together...

Maybe my argument IS the video of a fetus trying to save it's own life. Do I really need more to show barberacy?

No one has stepped forward to defend the actions, merely the right to have abortions.

Whats the matter? Video make you sick to your stomach?



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


You just killed the whatever credibility you had left with this post.

Your intelligent though out posts are ignored so you resort to the shock approach.


I'm glad people don't lump me in your category because I believe abortion is wrong like you.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


So we have relegated sex to a casual activity, without understanding the very real consequences, and then choose the "easy" out by choosing abortion over safer and more responsible sex?

And as for rape or incest? Using extreme examples to defend the practice is why the practice is so wide spread in the first place.

And two wrongs NEVER make a right.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by stereovoyaged
 


How about we start with Pres. Barrack Obama?



If you even believe in his life story, I have heard theres some issues with his BC.

Anyways, to say that well a small percentage of those kids that are born into a terrible life cause their mom had to have them, go on to be ok, doesn't erase the flip side where as the other 90%+ go on to be a burden on society, or perhaps even dangerous to society.

Its like me pushing a first grade class over a cliff, those who survive are stronger for it, those who dont, oh well, at least a few were ok... right?



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


I have defended the action by defending the choice.

You can't have one without the other.

You say you are not attacking a woman's right to choose an abortion, but are attacking the abortion itself.

So, if you support a woman's right to choose (since you aren't attacking it) what exactly do you support? What choice does she have?



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by jd140
 


Like a vegan showing a cow-slaughter to a meat eater.


You know, that's a pretty good point. However, not in the way you think, IMO. I'll give you my personal example. I went to the PETA website myself some years back and watched all of those videos. I'd had them emailed to me before, by vegans who liked to tell everyone exactly what they thought was right. None of it affected me. Then, I met a man who has been Vegan for years. We were co-workers. He ate lunch with us every day, with his little plate of soy and veggies, us with our Omni-food, and he never said a word. Never judged us. It didn't take long for many of us to open up to his eating habits, and listen to what he'd say, but he'd only say it if asked, that was the key. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say that I no longer eat meat, I do, as is my choice, but I HAVE in fact incorporated much more Vegan dishes into my family's weekly routine. Cut out a lot of dairy, use more soy, eat at Vegan places because the food is WONDERFUL. My point is, I would never have even considered entering a Vegan eatery before for fear of being judged for wearing my leather shoes!

So, to sum it up, PETA makes all Vegans look like lunatics the same way Operation Resuce and the like make all Pro-lifers look like lunatics. The propaganda and throwing things in people faces trying to GUILT them into seeing things your way does far less for your cause then gentl influence would.

[edit on 3/25/2009 by Layla]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Jason, may I ask the background of your objection? Is it religious, a moral thing, etc?



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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nope.... fertilizer doesnt live, its just food. The tree can grow without it, maybe not as good, maybe not in the same place but it can.

without sperm on the other hand you can't have an abortion. But let me tell you a little story:

When my mother had her 2nd child the doctors told her she couldnt get pregnant anymore. (guys, never trust *anybody* on that subject!)
And actually for a few years it looked like they were right. But then guess what: she got pregnant again and the doctors told her that she propably wouldnt survive giving birth again. So an abortion was recommended.
In a very, very last minute decision my mother decided "no" (she was in the hospital already, waiting for it)

And thats why i am here typing *waves*

now, when i was 14 or 15 we had a discussion on the subject in school. i told my mom about it and she told me the above story, very matter of factly, being convinced that i already knew it, and that she had told me about it at least 100 times. (guess i was kinda there with her, from her prespective)

At first i was shocked. And then i thought about it: "what would it have meant for me if i got aborted?" and the stunning result: nothing. nothing at all. sure, some fun stuff i wouldnt have done, some challenging stuff i wouldnt have done, i wouldnt have done .... pretty much anything at all really. But i also wouldnt have known that it would have been possible for me to exist. since i would not have existed, you see?

So: you cant ask the foetus how it feels about it, but you can ask me, and i am pretty much the closest to an aborted person you will ever meet. there are propably quite a few who are as close but closer is impossible. And i can therefore tell you: the foetus doesnt care. he doesnt know. nor will he ever.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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The womans choice and always should be.I didn't watch the video and dont need to,nothing and no one should dictate to a woman about such a matter.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by skeptic1
 


So we have relegated sex to a casual activity, without understanding the very real consequences, and then choose the "easy" out by choosing abortion over safer and more responsible sex?

And as for rape or incest? Using extreme examples to defend the practice is why the practice is so wide spread in the first place.

And two wrongs NEVER make a right.


These days, sex is a casual activity. Blame it on society, blame it on lack of personal responsibility. But, that's the way it is.

We can preach no sex before marriage. We can preach safe sex. We can preach monogamy.....we can preach until we are blue in the face.

Accidents happen. And, women have a legal right to terminate the pregnancy. Should abortion be used as a means of birth control, of course not. Should it be taken off the table altogether? Of course not.

Until you know what a woman goes through when she is alone, with no support, during the first weeks of a pregnancy, you can't judge what they decide to legally do.

As for rape and incest, sorry, but those are not extreme examples. Those are realistic examples. Happens everyday, everywhere, to all types of women in society. It is not extreme. But, it would be extreme, in my mind, to force those women to carry those fetuses. True, the fetuses are not guilty of a crime, but they were created in violence that scarred the mother. Why continue that scarring by having her carry a reminder for 9 months??

Two wrongs don't make a right. But, the world is not black and white. Never has been, never will be. Absolutes don't work well in our society. We have to have shades of gray.....those shades of gray are the choices we make.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by debunky
 


There's actually a woman in her late 20s that was aborted and survived, she was raised by the nurse there during her procedure. She has a different opinion than you. But, that's the beauty of being human.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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I support a woman's right to choose what she wants done to her body and with her baby.

I don't think the government has any right to interfere with personal decisions like that.

And if abortion becomes illegal, herbs and techniques like menstrual extraction instead and work around the law to do what is better for themselves.

Many, many women have abortions. Many don't. And they are the only ones who have a right to decide what happens in the end, in combination with their partner or parents or close friends who they trust.

I assure you we all know at least one person who has had an abortion. They are not evil, heartless murderers. It's better to have an abortion if you're not ready, than give a child up to overfilled adoptions agencies to go through a life of foster care, or to not be able to properly care for your child.

The end. In my opinion. As many of you know, this is the issue where... if the US makes abortion illegal... my own personal rights have been infringed on and I leave the country. End of story, end of everything. Doesn't matter what they say about the death penalty or stem cell research, it might for some people, but this is the case where it is MY body, my RIGHT to take Plan B, and if abortion becomes illegal, so will birth control pills eventually, and it will be a disaster. If you don't want to do some gross surgery for it, there are other methods (yes, with higher risk and less guarantee). But honestly, if you're not the one who is pregnant and questioning your ability to have a child, you really shouldn't have a say in the matter. It's personal. And it's going to stay legal for awhile. And I will be happy with that. If it is made illegal, I'm out. And I'd probably end up so sick of ATS if that happened because of things like this that I would leave the site, too.

Making it illegal will be cause for more risky black market abortions. Really, I do support abortions. In fact, I support abortions up until the time when you find out you are pregnant plus one month. If by month 6 you aren't sure and just find out, then I support month 7 abortions. Babies cannot live by themselves in any case, and really... just... do you think miscarriages are awful, too? Natural abortions? What about birth control? What about donating eggs to research? I support all those things, lots of people don't, but to me what is best is what is best for the mother. Not the baby. The important person is the one with an established livelihood- the mother. Not some immature organism that cannot provide it's own food or communicate it's needs enough to just go out into the world.

I don't need to defend myself to you or to anyone else. I've seen videos. My mother has been present for abortions because she is a midwife. She has also seen many, many still births from natural complications of pregnancy. And we both know many women who have had abortions.

This is just one of those things, like me loving Obama, that's not going to change. People hate me for it, whatever, but really I'm a female, I have a uterus, I could get pregnant, and if I did (with using protection and being careful and responsible anyway) I would get an abortion. I am not ready to be a mother. Some women are. But it's my decision. A baby is not a citizen of the country, they are not directly protected by the constitution, and even if they WERE (might be, who knows), the LIBERTY of the mother who is a full citizen overrides the LIFE of the baby, whose LIBERTY may also be better off in the long run if they are not born into a family with perhaps one mother who is not a graduate and who has no job, or to a mother who may not be able to care for the baby for some reason. And also, in many cases, abortions take place to protect the health of the baby, mother, or both.

Some species eat their young. I mean, honestly.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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I don't want to see that crap and if you had a decent argument to present you wouldn't have resorted to embedding it here.
It's really a pity too because I am sympathetic for the most part. But, there is no way I'm going to even try to convince this crowd one way or the other. You might as well go piss up a tree, Pal. Go find better arguments if you insist on discussing it here.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by Layla
 


Oh really? yup. i guess that would be closer. actually when i was typing that i was thinking: "can you get any closer? only if you actually got aborted and somehow survived."


But i doubt her recollections of the incident are any clearer than mine. we both were still very young


*thinks*
that sounds wierd... first if the procedure failed is there any reason not to follow through? its not more difficult once the foetus is outside the womb, rather on the contrary.
second: must have been pretty late? I mean we spend the first 9 months in the womb for a reason, and not for the decor. sure there are ways to compensate but it seems like a rather wierd decision.

*fires up google to learn more about that*

also: excellent analogy with the non intrusive vegan!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by debunky
reply to post by Layla
 


Oh really? yup. i guess that would be closer. actually when i was typing that i was thinking: "can you get any closer? only if you actually got aborted and somehow survived."


But i doubt her recollections of the incident are any clearer than mine. we both were still very young


*thinks*
that sounds wierd... first if the procedure failed is there any reason not to follow through? its not more difficult once the foetus is outside the womb, rather on the contrary.
second: must have been pretty late? I mean we spend the first 9 months in the womb for a reason, and not for the decor. sure there are ways to compensate but it seems like a rather wierd decision.

*fires up google to learn more about that*

also: excellent analogy with the non intrusive vegan!


I completely understand you doubting that this woman exists. I've met her myself, multple times. If my memory is correct, she was left for dead, as procedure would call for, but the nurse felt awful and saved her. She was leter term and it was a Saline abortion. Note: this is the same type of abortion that was performed on the fetus which I referred to earlier in this thread.

She doesn't remember the incident, per se, she bases her opinions on the life that she has lived since being born.

I'll see if I can find her website as her name escapes me now!

Edit: Gianna Jessen is her name. She's all over the net. I met her several times as a teenager, before I escaped


[edit on 3/25/2009 by Layla]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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didn't watch the video, but will state my position, and why I hold it!!
to put in plain simple terms, giving birth comes with risks to the mother's health and life! it presents less risks to others, and grave risks to some. and well, what can I say, as long as that risk is pooh-poohed even after doctors attest to the fact....like the case of the young girl that recently aborted twins!! well, pooh, pooh to you too!
giving birth comes with risks and NO ONE has the right to tell anyone that they should sacrifice their life or well being for another person!

anyone who disagrees with that last statement will have to have some explaining to do, because by God, we just bombed the hades out of two countries on a percieved risk to our nation's well being and the well being of our lifestyle.

don't expect more from the women than you men can muster up yourselves!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Oh i didnt doubt. I found it unlikely, and after googling: It *is* unlikely... and she was older than me.

So: yep, there are some cases but one must also see that those are cases where something went wrong, and when medicine goes wrong the results usually aren't pretty. Not to mention that the risk of something going wrong is higher if you have to get it through shadier channels than the local hospital.

But i am curious: if you talked to her, did you ever speak about the "what if" szenario? I mean: If i got aborted i wouldnt be here. would i mind? How the hell could i mind? i wouldnt be here.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by debunky
But i am curious: if you talked to her, did you ever speak about the "what if" szenario? I mean: If i got aborted i wouldnt be here. would i mind? How the hell could i mind? i wouldnt be here.




NO, the times I met her, I was still at an age where I would never ask a question like that. I was very much in a place where I simply believed what I was told and didn't question it. THat's what happens when you go to a Private Christian School for 9 years and your parents are actively involved in the Pro-Life movement. When you're 13 and made to block an abortion clinic's door, while in the midst of it, you don't have time to think about the other side. Looking back, it's a sad thing.




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