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Support Abortion? Watch this video and please defend your decisions...

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posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Original Video

This is the original video, since the original link was broken.

Please note that I am specifically pointing out minutes 14-16, as I am not trying to ruin someones day with graphic images, thanks.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 27-3-2009 by jasonjnelson]

 


Vid removed per staff discussion. Please do not re-post

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1a) Offensive Content: You will not post links to images or use avatars and signatures that are offensive, abusive, distruptive and/or hateful. You will not use images, avatars or link to images or domains that contain gore, mutilation, pornography or illegal(2e) content. Doing so will result in removal of your post(s) and immediate termination of your account.

[edit on 27/3/09 by masqua]




posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Where does it say I cannot judge others? Or are you going to give me the old thou shalt not judge lest you be judged and not finish the rest of that verse where it talks about people like you who judge us and do so while speaking of the God you say you follow?


I don't "follow" any god. My god doesn't need to "lead" me anywhere, i use the term god because it's easy to type. I believe there is more to the universe, and I KNOW that mankind has NO clue what drives this universe, not now, and especially not that far back in history. No man can "talk" to god, i "feel" higher power and i have no use for another man's idea of what that higher power DEMANDS we do.




mmm I see,, it is worse than I thought. Your God wasn't created in your image after all and I stand Corrected.

My mistake I did not realize that when you talk about God, you are referring to YOU. I just got to ask, how does it feel? You know,,,


being perfect and all





[edit on 27-3-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by jd140
The child maybe unwanted by the mother, but there are many out there who would love to adopt a newborn. If there is not a health risk to the mother what is the harm in adoption?


LOL! You're kidding, right? Sure, there are plenty that want WHITE - BLUE EYED - BLOND - FULLY FORMED babies.

Have you looked at the gazillions of NON-WHITE babies out there awaiting adoption? THEY are not being adopted except at a very slow pace...MUCH slower than they are being born at.


A woman gets pregnant, she does not want the child, she goes to an adoption agency and tells them she does not want the newborn. The agency then finds a family for the child, the child is born and the mother never has to see it.

Thats how a few people I know got their child.

Now where is the harm in doing that?

I will concede to you that if no parent is found then abortion would be the best route instead of an orphanage.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Krahzeef
Noone's going to win this argument.

All we can do is thank the good lord that there are options out there.


For abortion? There are two, Life and Death. Wow the only choice the lord gives us happens to be that simple a choice to make, yet when we make it that simple for others, we see how confusing an issue we can make it.

but making FOR people (infants) where the only choice is to argue the one being carried out as the execution of the innocent is not only being Judge and jury,, it is the act of playing a merciless God.


What was that they were saying about us Christians being harsh and judgemental again?


Yeah, uh huh



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Aermacchi
 


No. *I* did not give the example. Someone ELSE gave that example. I responded to it.

I have said more than once that I think abortion is murder. I have not tried to condone it, or make excuses for it. Not once. I simply resonded to someone else's post about the nine year old.

You're right, I am a sinner, just like everyone else. The difference though is that I know my sins will be dealt with in front of God, as will yours, and I won't sit and judge you, or condemn you, or belittle you or your belief system. I will not call names, nor will I throw out insults. Because, as a Christian I try to treat all people with respect and dignity, because it is not my job to punish, but God's.

You're posting's are not a waste of my time, because I am enlightened with every single sentence I read on this forum. A look into another person's mind is always enlightening.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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Here's the thing.

If abortion is legal, individuals, doctors, institutions, and insurance companies can still choose not to perform abortions. If you want to pass a law that says federal tax money can't be used to fund abortions, I'll go along with that. Insurance companies can refuse to pay for abortions which aren't medically necessary and don't have extenuating circumstances. Doctors and counselors and ministers can educate people, and birth control at the front end instead of abortion at the back end can be promoted with zeal.

If abortion is illegal, there are no choices. The only abortions which will be performed will be the ones in which the mother, or mother and baby both, would die if it weren't performed.

Then the raped teenagers, mentally challenged women who somehow managed to get pregnant, drug addicts, rape victims, incest victims, and assorted extreme cases will be forced to carry and birth their babies regardless, and they and us (as taxpayers) will be forced to pay for the children, and in some cases care for both mother and child for life. Damaged or non-viable fetuses, or fetuses carrying horrible birth defects, will have to be carried to term and cared for.

No choices.

No abortions, unless to save the mother's life.

Why not focus on education and prevention but leave abortion legal instead of campaigning to make it against the law again and take away everyone's choices and possibilities?

Thanks for listening.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi
My mistake I did not realize that when you talk about God, you are referring to YOU. I just go to ask, how does it feel? You know,,,


being perfect and all


Boy, you have a serious comprehension deficit. When I talk about god, I refer to EVERYTHING living. And perfection is a stupid concept that I don't buy into. If god was perfect, why is there ANY violence and death in this world? Your god lacks the ability to stop a tornadoes from ripping through the neighborhoods and killing some of his most devoted followers almost WEEKLY? Wow, created the universe and can't even control a little wind. I bet you say he works in strange ways, and has a plan. If so, abortion is part of it, or it wouldn't exist. Wait, I know, it's just a test. He likes to put food in front of dogs, and enjoys beating them when they take a bite. I wouldn't want to "follow" a god like that.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 


And why not make the argument to deal with those extenuating circumstances as they come up, specifically?

I cannot understand the logic in supporting the procedure for everyone, in order to protect the few who might need it. Why not just protect the few?

I have a feeling you will argue that it would make access harder for those that do have those circumstances, but I would argue back to you, that the millions saved in the process would be worth it.

I think we can all agree that the majority of abortions are not caused by these extremes, and therefore must move past that debate, and discuss the real issues, which are the other 99% of abortions.

I have been saying that since the beginning of this thread, but it seems no one is reading my posts...



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


I don't want to get into this with you, but I have a question...
Why is it that you would use death, or human suffering, to highlight your belief that one doesn't exist?

Most of those who follow religion would agree that our bodies are just vessels, and that we have a bigger place, with more lessons I'm sure, to move on to.

Not all death is a tragedy, as it is inevitable anyways.

If I never suffered, btw, I doubt I would appreciate the wonderful things in life anyways.

I mean, sometimes it takes rain to appreciate sunshine.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


I'm not bothering with yet another propaganda film.

Here's a concept. If you are against abortion, then don't get one. I'm sure anyone here, even the pro choice people will fully support your decision, since it's your choice and your view.

On the same token, damn you for trying to foist your idea of morals and values on others. Yours is not to judge, or preach. Other people don't have a problem with it and it's not for you to say if it is right or wrong, only if it is not for you.

People here aren't all that keen on giving up some of their freedoms just so you're not offended. we've had that happen all too many times at the hands of liberals and dummycraps.

No More.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
Why is it that you would use death, or human suffering, to highlight your belief that one doesn't exist?


Because, if there were a god that made concious decisions to allow children to die slow, agonizing deaths trapped under the rubble of earthquakes, or impaled on palm trees in tsunamis, etc. I would say that god is a very cruel and evil entity that I would NEVER bow to. But I don't believe that to be the case. This entire universe is violent and random, life is also violent and random, and ever changing. God to me is the energy that drives all life, and fuels all living things.

I ask you the same question....

Why is it that you would use death, or human suffering, to highlight your belief that abortion should not be an option (i feel i must continue to state I do not agree with late term abortions unless the mother will die)?



Most of those who follow religion would agree that our bodies are just vessels, and that we have a bigger place, with more lessons I'm sure, to move on to.


I don't believe too much differently on that. I just despise the control some men continue to exert over so many people by pushing their completely manmade attempt to explain what CANNOT be explained.



I mean, sometimes it takes rain to appreciate sunshine.


Also agree with you here. I'm all about balance.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by CoffinFeeder
 


Force my morals?

I did no such thing, you liar.

How dare you pretend to "Damn" me.

I take great offense, as I only asked those who supported abortion to watch a portion of a film, and then try and use their "classic" arguments to defend what they saw.

Damn you for being a liar, and accusin me of "forcing" things down peoples throats. It steams me to see that no one is actually reading my posts, but attacking my thread because I am so judgemental.

Why can't you attack me for what I REALLY am?

Compassionate to the point of frustrated tears that someone could promote an act that has such a horrific result, without even being able to view two minutes of such an act.

If I supported the death penalty, you are damn well sure that I would watch an execution video, and defend my choice on the matter.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


I am using the death depicted to show what I believe most people who support Abortion never take the time to see.

The other argument you mentioned is off-topic, but I would gladly get into my views on the subject at any other place.

If you want, we can even have a debate on the issue.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


That's true.
I can't watch the video, because I actually had the procedure, sorry.
But, if I was an avid pro-baby seal clubber or for the rights for others to club seals, shouldn't I 'woman-up' or man-up and watch a video of it being done?
We don't need this cursing on here, either.
And the religious are the ones being accused of anger and violence!



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by jasonjnelson
 


No law will be able to account for all of the extenuating circumstances, and if a bill should be proposed for a law which has pages of lists of "exceptions," it would be struck down anyway.

Some women are going to be so determined to not have their child that they will either kill the child with their do-it-yourself attempts, or kill both the child and themselves in suicide. Others will simply leave the country and get their abortion elsewhere. If someone is bound and determined NOT to have that child, they will find a way, and no law is going to stop them

Convince insurance agencies not to pay for abortions unless they are truly necessary.
Convince doctors to help their patients consider other options.
etc. etc.

Forcing everyone in America to live by YOUR beliefs is okay? Why is that?

Why not convince as many people as you can through educational efforts and economic barriers, and let the rest make their own fate and destiny.

In Germany in the 50's, women who got pregnant and didn't want the baby sometimes performed their own DIY abortions with metal clothes hangers. Most of the fetuses died, and so did many of the mothers. Others used dangerous herbs and chemicals, jumping from porches and balconies, and other methods of trying to injure themselves severely enough to miscarry the child but survive. Is this what you think will be better than legal abortions?



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Layla

No. *I* did not give the example. Someone ELSE gave that example. I responded to it.


On the contrary YES it was, my making light of your use of extreme examples was what convicted you as to the absurdity of your argument and may be why you do not want to take responsibility of your own statments given as those hypothetical examples.

Clearskies the one you responded to and your quote I posted, was giving a set of circumstances that, with all due respect beloved, ARE A FACT!

You gave your own version of what are the most extreme examples of that circumstance to make an example of clearskies and i busted you for that and now I am busting you again for your denial.

These are YOUR words given in those extreme examples verbatim:


Wow, really? And living through the trauma of carrying twins would be better? Or risking her own death to birth those twins would have been better? Or HAVING twins only to have them taken away would be better? Because a nine year old with a child's mind could very well think she wanted her babies, and they'd be ripped away from her and adopted out, and she'd live with that forever. You see, there was NO happy ending to that story. NONE. If she was FORCED to have those babies, and she died from the bodily stress of carrying twins, I'd call the people who FORCED her to do it murderers, personally


The FACT however is one that clearskies gave as a circumstance and still stands as a FACT regardless of those unique and very rare extreme circumstances that just don't cut it as a reason to sanction the 99% of selfish inexcusable reasons unfathomable in fact, we should not fight the good fight against an evil so debased, so deplorable and so incidious as it has become the fabric of the Americans solution to hiding the evidence of our promiscuity by killing the star witness in every single case.



I have said more than once that I think abortion is murder. I have not tried to condone it, or make excuses for it. Not once. I simply resonded to someone else's post about the nine year old.



Oh Really? what was that I just said you posted above? You make exuses for it and in doing so you are complicit in condoning it.

Look if you want to add not being able to admit when you're wrong to the list of reasons you are losing an argument you don't have a single leg to stand on, well chalk this one up as it because you just did.



You're right, I am a sinner, just like everyone else. The difference though is that I know my sins will be dealt with in front of God, as will yours, and I won't sit and judge you, or condemn you, or belittle you or your belief system. I will not call names, nor will I throw out insults. Because, as a Christian I try to treat all people with respect and dignity, because it is not my job to punish, but God's.


You know how to know we have not punished anyone? BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL ARGUING THIS WITH US! You say you are a Christian? You say you try to respect all people with respect and dignity? No Christian, that is not what we are to do for the reprobate the non repentant Idolators of Infanticide and the systematic genocide of Gods most innocent creation behind the guise of can only be described as the logic of liars the author of the enemy.

BE ADVISED: Two there are Types of Judging

1. Discerning (Good Judging)

Exposing
Correcting and Rebuking

If we have examined ourselves and we are not guilty of the same sin (see 1 Corinthians 11:27-31), it may be necessary to expose, rebuke, and correct someone; especially if the person doing wrong is another believer.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV says: "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

2 Timothy 4:2 NIV says: "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage- with great patience and careful instruction." Notice that in this verse we are told to rebuke and encourage; so we should not correct if we do not encourage.

Titus 2:15 NIV says: "These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you."

Ephesians 5:11 NIV says: "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."

1 Corinthians 2:15-16 NIV says: "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

So, believers should judge all matters and issues.

I John 4:1 NIV says: "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." Believers should test the spirits behind a person's action to see if the action brings glory to God.

Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament, judged someone in the church. See 1 Corinthians 5:1-13. Then see 2 Corinthians 2:5-11 to see where Paul encourages the church to forgive the person.


2. Condemning and Criticizing (Bad Judging)

This is what we see these innocent victims of abortion being the wrongfully judged and executed victims of the same people we see here.

Note: it is ok to warn someone of possible consequences, but it is not ok to say things which may discourage the person or lead them to believe that the worst is the only outcome they will have.

Sentencing with no mercy.

Correcting someone when guilty of the same thing.

People who practice the bad kind of judging often are guilty of the same sin they are using to belittle another person. Jesus addressed this scenario in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:41-42, and these are the verses which people sometimes twist in order to defend their sinful desires. The problem is that people sometimes quote Matthew 7:1 only which reads "Do not judge, or you too will be judged" (NIV), but one must also read verses 2-5 to understand the point Jesus was making. The point Jesus was making was not to judge someone of the same sin we have in our own lives



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by jasonjnelson
I am using the death depicted to show what I believe most people who support Abortion never take the time to see.


Well, the video shows what would most likely be a late term abortion since the fetus is highly developed, I don't have sound on my home PC (can't watch it at work) so I don't know if they get into the circumstances behind the abortion. If you showed a video of what would be most common, when it is just an unwanted pregnancy for whatever reason and the procedure is early term, you would NOT get the emotional response you seek. The video is an extreme circumstance, which i already said i don't support. But when they are removing a tadpole with NO brain activity or nerve endings, just the next step or two from fertilization itself, there is NO cruelty involved. It's like removing a vegetable, a blobby mix of sperm and egg. That's the MAJORITY of the cases.



The other argument you mentioned is off-topic, but I would gladly get into my views on the subject at any other place.

If you want, we can even have a debate on the issue


I don't really have too much more to say, my ideas about our existence are pretty straight forward, but if you start a thread on the subject let me know...



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Heike
Here's the thing.

If abortion is legal, individuals, doctors, institutions, and insurance companies can still choose not to perform abortions. If you want to pass a law that says federal tax money can't be used to fund abortions, I'll go along with that. Insurance companies can refuse to pay for abortions which aren't medically necessary and don't have extenuating circumstances. Doctors and counselors and ministers can educate people, and birth control at the front end instead of abortion at the back end can be promoted with zeal.

If abortion is illegal, there are no choices. The only abortions which will be performed will be the ones in which the mother, or mother and baby both, would die if it weren't performed.

Then the raped teenagers, mentally challenged women who somehow managed to get pregnant, drug addicts, rape victims, incest victims, and assorted extreme cases will be forced to carry and birth their babies regardless, and they and us (as taxpayers) will be forced to pay for the children, and in some cases care for both mother and child for life. Damaged or non-viable fetuses, or fetuses carrying horrible birth defects, will have to be carried to term and cared for.

No choices.

No abortions, unless to save the mother's life.

Why not focus on education and prevention but leave abortion legal instead of campaigning to make it against the law again and take away everyone's choices and possibilities?

Thanks for listening.


Heike, thank you for this sensible and very well thought out postulate on the legal ramifications of this issue and FINALLY I see someone has understood what the OP was asking for all along.

The part of this I am angry about ajnd not having to do with you but that Barack Obama has signed a bill forcing that takes away a Physicians option to refuse performing an abortion based on moral grounds and conscience.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi
You know how to know we have not punished anyone? BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL ARGUING THIS WITH US!


The days of crusades are over, and you have NO ability to punish us besides a few cowardly acts of terrorism here and there. We will continue to argue with you extremist zealots, and our numbers WILL grow, as yours diminish. Common sense is abound these days, much more so than the days of the inquisitions. You are no different than Bin Laden, you just read a different fantasy book.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


MOST abortions are performed at twelve weeks!
The baby already has fingers and toes. Look it up, please.



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