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Why we should demand disclosure

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posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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Some reasons why we should demand full disclosure of the existence of ET and its contact with Earth.

1) It is undemocratic. It is even criminal to not let us know about ET life, we have a fundamental right to know because the governments are our representatives only, they have no right to withold such information from us. If they say they are protecting us for our own good, then they no have right to do that, because we have not given them permission to do that.

2) Human and ET interaction in culture, knowledge, technology and religion could significantly benefit human culture and help solve our problems. It may open up an whole new chapter in interplanetary communcation and even tourism. Moreover, living in a new world with an indefinite number of intelligent species in the universe, will help dissolve separatist and nationalistic sentiments, and faciliate a more cosmic and family like sentiment. Such as: "We are all part of a cosmic family".

3) Interplanetary war and violence is a a real possibility. Humans need to be aware of possible hostile ET species which have malintent towards us, and thus the world as a whole needs to have solutions and contingency policies and in this civilians have as much right of participation, as their representative governments.

4) It is elitest. It is possible that our corrupt officials are benefiting from ET contact and ET science and technology, which could benefit the whole world, but they are monopolizing all the benefits for themselves. This is treason against humanity.

We should not tolerate this government conspiracy any longer. More proactive action needs to be taken to bring about disclosure. There is something fundamentally wrong with our society, if we openly allow our governments to lie to us like this. That is not a good thing, and the outcome of that could never be good.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Indigo_Child]




posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Any thoughts on the above points?



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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I completely agree. And personally, it is aspects 1 and 2 of your list that bother me the most. Disclosure would, I think, precipitate a massive paradigm shift for mankind and I suspect that the people who keep these secrets know full well that there would be no place for them and their elitist, secretive, undemocratic power base within the new paradigm and they are deeply reluctant to give that up. That is, IMO, the greatest barrier to disclosure. So I suspect disclosure will, in one way or another, have to be forced rather than offered voluntarily.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Malcram]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
1) It is undemocratic. It is even criminal to not let us know about ET life, we have a fundamental right to know because the governments are our representatives only...


Not necessarily. Even in democratic republics, it is understood that sometimes it is necessary to keep and protect secrets for a variety of reasons often falling under the aegis of "national security."

The rest of your points are pure and total speculation.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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But he is right. I think many people can't handle it if they just came out and said there are aliens everywhere.
I'm sure a lot of people on ATS would be thrilled, as i would be, but a lot of people even refuse to think about the possibilities of life out there.
Needs of the many go before the needs of a few.

On this subject i wish it was the other way round



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by locster
But he is right. I think many people can't handle it if they just came out and said there are aliens everywhere.
I'm sure a lot of people on ATS would be thrilled, as i would be, but a lot of people even refuse to think about the possibilities of life out there.
Needs of the many go before the needs of a few.

On this subject i wish it was the other way round



So, just because people want to live their lives with heads in the sand, or fingers in ears chanting "nananananana" ... means the rest of the world cannot be let in on what is going on?

I am sorry, that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

IF, an "alien presence" is known about.. it should not be up to a select group to decide what the "world populace" is privy too.

It should be told... people can handle things alot better than most give them credit for.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Sure at first people would freak out, I cannot disagree on that point. However, after they've had time to warm up to the idea I'm sure it wouldn't be so bad. Especially if they grays turn out to be real. Who would be afraid of a 3' tall humanoid with a big head? People just cannot go on thinking that we are the only life in the universe/galaxy/solar system (the last one is a possibility however not proven). That is the unethical thing.

And hey it would help the economy. Tell me if they started offering cruises around the rings of Saturn or maybe trips to Mars people wouldn't jump on the idea and be grateful for et tech.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm convinced SaviorComplex is a dis-info agent.


He is spot on with what he said though.


Everything that the OP said it blatant speculation...
Literally everything.

They are entitled to their opinion as is SC.

I know who makes more sense in this thread



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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It's speculation sure, but it doesn't mean he couldn't be dead on, on one or more of the issues. I agree with him to the extent that if something is known then we as the people who employ our government to be forthcoming with us. They literally try to cover up almost anything they can even unrelated to ET's. I've even seen a video somewhere that there is a clause/plan that in case of emergencies they can throw the constitution out the window (this video was a hearing involving government officials not some random guy). We need to hold our governments accountable on every issue including disclosure of ET knowledge. They are no longer protecting us, but themselves.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by DaMod]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Indigo_Child
 


I agree with 3 outta 4 reasons . Im not worried about interplanetary war

at this time. But I will say that the timing is all wrong. The big O does have more important fires to put out at this time. Lets wait a bit, when the
time is right , than demand the truth.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Big O? the stadium in Montreal????

What can Obama do? his hands are tied to lobbyists and banksters. He can do nothing except accelerate nwo agenda. The signs of elite corporative takeover of the world has been going on for decades and its increasing in speed.

How long will people wait, before they finally believe only themselves can bring about change.

You cant let other people do everything for you, you need to take the reigns yourselves. I said it before, you have a clause in your constitution to change your government if need be. Forcibly. Do it.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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the op makes goods points. Of course it is speculation, but what isnt.

Its through discussion that things come out. Not berating and denying.

People are funny creatures, arent they.

The world should be made aware of ETs and their tech
The world will be shocked, then angered,
But it will settle and we can start changing this world for the better.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
2) Human and ET interaction in culture, knowledge, technology and religion could significantly benefit human culture and help solve our problems. It may open up an whole new chapter in interplanetary communcation and even tourism. Moreover, living in a new world with an indefinite number of intelligent species in the universe, will help dissolve separatist and nationalistic sentiments, and faciliate a more cosmic and family like sentiment. Such as: "We are all part of a cosmic family".


I'm leaving point 1 out as I'm not getting into a political discussion.

Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that ET's exist.
We don't know they do and have no proof whatsoever but for arguments sake....they do.

I agree on the point of our "earthly" arguments and problems will seem small and pointless (that's because they are...why we need et's to see this i don't know) and we may be able to live harmoniously....That's if these ET's are friendly


But also...on the flip side, as we can't get on with those on our own planet... even those in our own towns..companies, families... what makes people think that it will be one big (to quote the OP) "cosmic family"?

I think this is wishful thinking.




3) Interplanetary war and violence is a a real possibility. Humans need to be aware of possible hostile ET species which have malintent towards us, and thus the world as a whole needs to have solutions and contingency policies and in this civilians have as much right of participation, as their representative governments.



Why have they not attacked yet?
Why would they only attack if the governments of the world told ud they exist??

I'm not understanding your logic here??

I'm sure the Gov. have a plan..... offer us all up and save themselves....





4) It is elitest. It is possible that our corrupt officials are benefiting from ET contact and ET science and technology, which could benefit the whole world, but they are monopolizing all the benefits for themselves. This is treason against humanity.


Then by that logic...the government in general is elitist.....
I can't stand the gov. so have no problem with this.

What about all the free energy being suppressed?
they could make it so cars run on water.... but they won't.

Everything about government and corporations is elitist, why does this subject anger you more than the others??


cheers



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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The OP made some good points.
But no matter how much we DEMAND, the governments are under no obligation to disclose anything relating to the subject of UFO`s because it has to do with national security.
Anything that can fly into any country`s airspace undetected or at will without authorization IS a threat to their national security.

I`ve always said that governments have secrets that they must keep in order to protect the public.
We know nothing about these visitors (if indeed they are visitors), and it would be pretty foolish to think right off the bat that we do, and they are friendly and will "help" us.
Please keep in mind that they are the ones sneaking around.

IMHO, disclosure will not come from governments unless we go to war with them or somthing big like that.
It will come from the UFOs themselves.
They need to land in a very public place, or maybe crash in a large park, and if it`s piloted, then it`s pilot will crawl out for everyone to see and photograph before it gets hauled away.



Originally posted by DaMod
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm convinced SaviorComplex is a dis-info agent.

SC is no more a disinfo agent then you or I.
He just uses critical, and logical thinking.
I`ve followed his posts for awhile now, and NEVER has he offered up any disinformation or hoaxes.
He just refuses to blindly believe. But it doesn`t mean that he doesn`t believe or is incapable of believing that there is life elsewhere.
To me, he`s just one of the many voices of reason here at ATS.


Originally posted by DaMod
Who would be afraid of a 3' tall humanoid with a big head?

Speak for yourself. People have different fears.
And if the abduction phenomenon is true, im sure we would be very wise to be afraid.



Originally posted by TwiTcHomatic
So, just because people want to live their lives with heads in the sand, or fingers in ears chanting "nananananana" ... means the rest of the world cannot be let in on what is going on?

What locster said is true.
We here on ATS would be excited and we sometimes forget that there is life outside of a UFO forum.
You are essentially speaking for a minority.
Who said that the rest of the world actually cares about this kind of stuff as much as we do?
As as far as i`ve seen (offline in the real world) most people have more important things on their minds, like our economy, keeping their jobs, feeding their families, paying their mortgages and bills etc.

Here in the US, if Obama brought foruth disclosure before fixing our economy,it would be political suicide and he can kiss a second term goodbye.
So it wont be comingfrom him.

Has anyone ever has as much of an open mind enough to have entertained the idea that maybe the governments may just not know as much as we think they do? Dispite all the conspiracy theories out there, remember....they are just theories.
Maybe disclosure hasn`t come because they just dont know enough about it to make the public feel safe.

I read posts where people say that "we are ready".
But seriously, what if disclosure came and it wasn`t what you expected? What if they are not friendly?
What if we find that they are hostile?
Would you really be ready?



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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blupblup i missed your post.
True free energy on a global scale will always be a myth.
The technology may exist, but unfortunately someone will always find a way to charge us for it.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by johnjohn808
What locster said is true.
We here on ATS would be excited and we sometimes forget that there is life outside of a UFO forum.
You are essentially speaking for a minority.
Who said that the rest of the world actually cares about this kind of stuff as much as we do?
As as far as i`ve seen (offline in the real world) most people have more important things on their minds, like our economy, keeping their jobs, feeding their families, paying their mortgages and bills etc.



I totally agree with your post


the bit I've quoted i really like.

It's easy to forgot that the majority on this site either believe fully that ET's/EBE's exist or are very open to the "possibility" that they do.

We are completely and utterly in a minority.... most of humanity/the masses/the general public see this entire subject as "nuts" or think that CT's or "truthers" or "believers" are complete nutjobs.

I'm almost glad it's like that..
Only those who seek the truth and scrutinize and research what our governments and leaders and space agencies and doctors and "official figures" in any field say...will find the truth or evidence they are looking for.

I'm glad we can have the discussions we do on here, as I'm sure most of us are aware.... our friends and family (often) don't get it or are not interested.... or you just wouldn't even bother to discuss it with them.
Obviously many do and I'm not saying this is the way for everyone.... but for many, ATS is a release and a chance to speak to like-minded people from around the globe.

I'm pretty open-minded and enjoy all kinds of topics.





I read posts where people say that "we are ready".
But seriously, what if disclosure came and it wasn`t what you expected? What if they are not friendly?
What if we find that they are hostile?
Would you really be ready?



Exactly...something i pointed out earlier too.
Everyone says they are ready and they can handle it... i wonder just how many really could.

As you said... if they were hostile and really were abducting people and mutilating cattle and such.... what do you think they'd have in store for us?

be careful what you wish for i say.










[edit on 26/3/09 by blupblup]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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We can demand all we want, but the truth may be more harsh then what some of you want to believe.

-We may not be visited by anything at all. You may be the most "hardcore" of believers, with piles of what you believe to be evidence and testimony, but at the end of the day, we may just be alone in our solar system/galaxy with no visitors.

-Or, if we are being visited, then maybe the government is just as clueless as most people, and they don't want to put a true definition of what objects they see or know about.

See, most of you mix up the term "UFO" with extraterrestrial. Sure, the government may know about certain objects, but they may be in the dark like the rest of us. Or, it could be our own technology, and they don't want other people to know what they're working on. I don't think its as easy as some of you hope it to be, or don't want to except the harsh reality.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by TravisT]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by johnjohn808
IMHO, disclosure will not come from governments unless we go to war with them or somthing big like that.


Which is a silly concern to begin with. At our current level of technology, we would never have a war with an extraterrestrial race. If an civilization has the power to traverse the stars, if they wanted to attack us, they could deliver such a devastating blow we such ease we would never know what hit us. All it requires is giving the right asteroid just a little nudge...



posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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There is nothing speculative at all in my OP. I am NOT saying "If aliens exist, the government should disclose" I am saying the government must disclose, which obviously means I accept that ET's exist and are visiting Earth.

ET existing or not is not a problem for me. They are a fact of reason, in fact for the officials in-the-know ET's are so common, it no longer surprises them if a UFO flies by. Officials disclose that they have special radar systems now to block out UFO's. It's not a speculative issue. These UFO's exist and they are ET.

It is blatantly obvious the government is lying if you look at their official explanations for cases like Roswell and LA. Those explanations do not stand up to scientific scrutiny, so clearly they are lying. But despite the fact that we know they are lying we are doing nothing about it. Hence why full disclosre needs to be demanded.

Argument: It's a national security issue

Rebuttal: This is a catch-all fallacy and will lead to one party getting absolute power, because they are allowed to withhold any information that is considered a threat. I will give an example of a hypothetical government and some hypothetical situations, "It is found the secret service have abused their powers" -"Hide it, it is a national security issue" "It is found the president is doing illegal activity - "Hide it, it is a national security issue", "It is found the government is helping terrorists in a certain country - "Hide it, it is a national security issue" "It is found that a scientists new discovery will lead to a collapse of power structures" - "Hide it, it national security issue"

I am not saying there aren't any real national security issues, but cautioning against the fallacious use of this argument. Obviously the codes for nuclear-launch are national security issues and must be kept hidden.

Now, here is why ET is not a national security issue: ET is not national, but intergalactic. It is an issue not just for some nation and its government, it is an issue for the entire world. It is a human issue. No government has any right to make it their own issue. The existence of ET is an important fact to be known by the whole world, every child, man and woman on this planet. It will completely change our entire worldview.

I think people have forgotten what democracy is all about and have kind of just given all control to the government. This can only lead to a bad outcome. People need to realise that they employ their government and not vis versa. If there is no civilian presence in policy decisions, then that is no democracy, it is a dictatorship.

Argument:: The government is only protecting us from ET disclosure. If ET's existence was revealed it would lead to the collapse of religions, mass hysteria and what not.

Rebuttal

We are not children and our government is definitely not our parent. It is not for them to presume what we need protection from, this is decided through a democratic process through civilian and government dialogue. Witholding disclosure is not democratic, it is criminal and treason with civilians.

In fact most people today believe in ET in the world or in the possibility. Most religions also have no problems with ET, some religions even consider ET fact. There is not going to be mass-hysteria if ET is disclosed, there will instead be mass-interest in ET. This will start the real civilian democratic process on the issue of ET.

There is no valid reason to withold disclosure. It only reveals the government does not have our best interests in mind. This is not the job we employed our governments to do. In this day and age, people in the world need to work at dissolving the centralized power structures that people in this century have alowed to develop. This is the only way we could live in a better world. People need to become proactive.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by Indigo_Child]



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