Armed customer kills robber at Burger King

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


There are also more policemen in areas with high crime.

Do you mean to suggest policemen cause more crimes?

The UK gun ban has had absolutely no effect whatsoever. The levels were always low, and always have been even post-ban. We may have less gun murders than the USA, but there's really just been a replacement of weapons- hence the explosion in knife crime.

Correllation and causation are not the same thing. If you don't want to understand that, you never will.

All the statistics show that policy (legality/ illegality of arms) has no effect on gun crime. Given that, I would much rather be armed.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck there has to be a reason, and I'm asking you what you figure it might be. Like I said...It's not just our good manners.

Just getting women to stop giving it up to morons would likely put a dent in moronic behavior.

Thanks for a well thought out answer. I'll tell you though, we in Canada have those wide-open spaces as well. The major difference is that we have a major shut-down in out-door activities during the winter. Except sledding, etc...

Mind you, that is also the reason we don't have those monster cockroaches that they call Palmetto Bugs (incidentally, we know they're still roaches) in the south. Winter kill.

And we have big cities, so we have the crowding. We also have full exposure to all of your culture...for better or for worse. May the good Lord above bless cable.

But your wisest comment is as above...
"Just getting women to stop giving it up to morons would likely put a dent in moronic behavior."

You can wrap that up in a whole bunch of sociological jargon, but that is, in fact, the only solution. Not, as another poster said "Kill all the idiots". We called that Eugenics and decided that was bad. Go to Wiki. Look up Nazi.

Good call, thisguy, we don't always agree.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


You are right, my friend.
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
But it has no effect on the amount of guns, and how they are used.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
All the statistics show that policy (legality/ illegality of arms) has no effect on gun crime. Given that, I would much rather be armed.

I dispute those stats. They might support the US experieince but when those factors determine availability rather than status, it's a different story. And a knife is different from a gun, and I'm not going to investigate that angle because it's apples and rocks. I figure a man carries a knife. You use it for all kinds of things...from cleaning your nails to fixing a car. A gun is to kill stuff. Period.

And forgive me for saying, given a monniker like 'soulslayer'...well of course diddums wants to carry a gun. That's not real subtle...and significant in and of itself.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


A gun only kills if you point and squeeze.
Mine has an effect unlike any other thing in the world, when people that would otherwise threaten me see it dangling from my cross-draw, especially when its outside my vest.
I will agree that the only useful purpose of it, when you fire it, is injury and death,but the mere sight of a gun has stopped more crime than killed people.
Im not disagreeing with either of you, only trying to add a little.
You both have valid and interesting points.

Originally posted by guinnessford

I will agree that the only useful purpose of it, when you fire it, is injury and death,but the mere sight of a gun has stopped more crime than killed people.

You will always have bad guys. Fact of life. But after seeing the law and order industry as the self feeding machine it is, you have to admit that things aren't getting any better.

I'd say that we need to take extraordinary measures to get kids through school and working...and that we need to take the entertainment industry to task for glorifying thug culture. If you can sue McD's for giving you a hot coffee without warning you it's hot, then you ought to be able to sue Pipty for telling my kids to be a pimps and ho's. Artistic statement my arse. Or pharma retailers for selling buckets of meth-makin's to the skinny kid with the bad teeth.

Keep the kids outta jail. Let them earn the dignity that comes with an honest day's pay for an honest day's work...then pass it along to the next generation.

Cuz it may not suit the cowboy mentality, but even if you like your guns...you can't shoot them all.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


true, true.
But many times the gunmakers have been sued and amounted to nothing.
Not sure if its the cash broom sweeping the problem under the rug, or they really werent found to be liable.
Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie fat.
It takes a mind and a will to point and squeeze, unless were talkin bout mk, or something.

Some of the replies I've read here remind of those people who are stupid enough to try to sue someone because "they injured me giving me the heimlich while I was choking on my nuggets." Please.

I hope that customer gets off scott free. The robber should never have come in there demanding money in the first place. That's what's wrong with America these days. That "robber" some people on here have attempted to victimize (oh - maybe he would have just taken the money and gone away) COULD have just went and gotten a job somewhere instead of trying to rob a business with people in it who are contributing to the economy.

Wow.

Yeah.

Let's hang the customer because "guns are evil and he should have kept his hidden."

Originally posted by guinnessford
Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie fat.
It takes a mind and a will to point and squeeze, unless were talkin bout mk, or something.

A spoon is not manufactured to kill Rosie. Not that I'm aware of, anyway, but you Americans are a crafty lot.

Interesting to see who the gun manufacturers pay off in government. Also, who has shares in private jails. Law and order is a growth industry. Do you really see government wanting that curtailed?

And consider, it also takes a society to legitimise pointing and squeezing. That is one of the differences between us, and we care for our own no less than you do.

I'm not calling y'all down, or trying to change your laws...I'm pointing out an interesting difference. Mind you the numbskulls that carry and are just oozing for an opportunity to shoot at a 'bad guy' are getting tiresome. To them I say get your therapy now...it'll be a lot less than after you actually kill some kid.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


To answer most of it, The politicians own huge stocks in gun companies, defense, and jails.
Nothing like hedging your bets, huh?
And the spoons are inanimate until in a hand, like a gun.
And yeah, i wont take away the fact that we glorify pointing and squeezing.
The difference is us smart ones know when not to do it.

There's no point comparing gun stats between USA and UK, it's totally different culture in so many ways, not just the gun issue.

During the last years before the big disarming, not that many people in the UK had guns anyway, and very few cared about that right. The same with hunting. It was easy for the UK government to push through anti-gun and anti-hunting laws, because that was essentially what the populace wanted, things like the Dunblaine massacre only increased that want, it was already at a high enough level without such incidents.

Even the UK's Conservative Party are crazy commie far left nutjobs by USA standards, they pretty much support socialized medicine and welfare programs, just with a few more restrictions and more 'war on waste' than the other parties. They don't support gun rights. I don't think even any of the 'crazy' parties support gun rights.

In so many ways the whole culture is so different that comparisons are meaningless. It goes beyond the culture of politics and law, it goes to the attitudes of the people themselves, and that includes the criminals.

S+F from me
i was gonna post this on my "armed citizens" thread but spaced it last night.
like i've said before, florida and arizona have become a shooting gallery for bad guys. Kudos to this guy for a job well done.

also i do remember hearing about a law in florida that states you can use deadly force to stop a felony. in this case armed robbery is a felony. done and done.

if you like this story check out my thead here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by Now_Then
It was only money and it wasn't even his.

The damned fool should of kept his mouth shut and his weapon concealed - now he is seriously wounded.

A shoot out in a restaurant that was busy with school kids could of ended very badly.

If your not willing to stand up for what's right and defend liberty and righteousness, then you are a coward. This man is a hero and the world could use more people like him. It's a shame that he was shot but I am thankful for his actions.

You should never cower in fear from evil.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Your arrogant tone and moral superiority grows wearisome.

Rather than discussing the issue, you take cheap shots at my screenname and how that supposedly represents my views and characterises my psyche. How about I do the same to you? With a name like JohnnyCanuck and a lumberjack as a display picture, I bet you live in some remote part of Canada and have never dealt with the crime of the inner city. Of course you hate guns, you're scared of them and have no reason to use them.

What you are actually doing is belittling me, and suggesting that my views are because I'm an uneducated low brow who wants a gun because of an irrational childish desire. I'm not surprised... my opponent did the exact same thing when I was debating the issue with him in the debate thread. You anti-firearms guys (and indeed liberals in general) never respond to the issues, you just slur the right wing as being ignorant.

You refute the statistics eh- care to wager an alternative explanation?

Yes guns are for killing, and only for killing. However you ignore the fact that killing in itself is not an immoral act. It is the context of the killing that makes the act immoral or moral.

If I shoot dead a man about to rape a woman, I wouldn't consider my actions immoral.
If I shoot dead a man about to attack another citizen, I wouldn't consider my actions immoral.

A gun can be used morally for killing in self defence.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by 44soulslayer]

Well, it looks like the robber clearly didn't get it "his way". Burger King is pure hell, minus the whopper, their only glorious achievement.

reply to post by bismarcksea



Exactly on the nose!

If someone pulls a gun to rob someone they are ready to kill you.

If all of us law abiding moral people had guns and made a stand crime like this would nearly end full stop.

We are free men and women and need to make our stand.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Look at the difference between Toronto and Detroit.

It's not just because we have good manners, you know.

Its because Detroit has a 45% illiteracy rate. The city is FULL of stupid animals, I should know I like in Michigan. There are sections of Detroit the police even stay out of.

The states have a high crime rate because we are so diverse. That is a fact.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Your arrogant tone and moral superiority grows wearisome.

Rather than discussing the issue, you take cheap shots at my screenname and how that supposedly represents my views and characterises my psyche.

One, I have been discussing the issue, to the extent of asking Americans if they see a corelationship between the availability of guns in their society and the amount of gun crime. And you'll note we're having a rather civilised chat given that some of us have butted heads before.

Two...as to your screen name? Soulslayer? Just what is that supposed to conjure up? And are you in fact a slayer of souls, or just wanna sound bad-ass? Does that characterise your psyche? You don't think there's a message there? And the crossed guns? I trust you have actually served in the military, is all I can say.

How about I do the same to you? With a name like JohnnyCanuck and a lumberjack as a display picture, I bet you live in some remote part of Canada and have never dealt with the crime of the inner city. Of course you hate guns, you're scared of them and have no reason to use them.

...cuz they don't use guns up here in the Great Northern Wilderness. Cuz we don't have meaner wildlife than you do. Aside from that, amazing...you pegged me spot on. Even the fact that I look like Michael Palin...another famous Canuck.

I don't think you're an uneducated low brow...I just think you're wrong. As to right or left wing, the only thing that matters there is a recognised propensity for Conservatives to act the way they do.

You anti-firearms guys (and indeed liberals in general) never respond to the issues, you just slur the right wing as being ignorant.

No, I'll debate a subject if it appeals to me to do it. I didn't walk into this as an argument about guns. I was just asking the 'other side' for their thoughts, and by golly, the're happy to pass them along without attacking me for asking!

Read rubberbaron, above. He said: "In so many ways the whole culture is so different that comparisons are meaningless. It goes beyond the culture of politics and law, it goes to the attitudes of the people themselves, and that includes the criminals." That's the kind of discussion I was engaging in.

You refute the statistics eh- care to wager an alternative explanation?

No, you can defend your statement, instead.

Yes guns are for killing, and only for killing. However you ignore the fact that killing in itself is not an immoral act. It is the context of the killing that makes the act immoral or moral.

Tell it to the judge. Good thing we have laws to sort out the difference...good thing they don't let you carry, either.

Listen, oh slayer of souls, how about we just write this one off as 'agree to disagree', and endeavour to stay out of each other's faces. Cuz, we just don't agree.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Look at the difference between Toronto and Detroit.
It's not just because we have good manners, you know.

Its because Detroit has a 45% illiteracy rate. The city is FULL of stupid animals, I should know I like in Michigan. There are sections of Detroit the police even stay out of.
The states have a high crime rate because we are so diverse. That is a fact.

You nailed it in one respect, when you cite the literacy rate. Those are people that don't have a chance. If they were taught to read, things would change some. Further, it's cheaper to educate them than to incarcerate them or execute them. But it doesn't enhance police budgets or make money for those in the 'law and order' industry.

Ethnicity shouldn't be an issue. Everybody wants their kids to do well. Toronto is hugely diverse, but there are strong efforts to keep kids in school. It ain't perfect, but it seems to be the best road to take. Beats having to shoot them.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I am positive my politically incorrect post will not be popular but it is truth.

The truth needs to be addressed or the problems will just get worse.