The economy is scaring me. .

Originally posted by mpriebe81
reply to post by dodadoom

 

Yeah we are quite off topic aren't we? whooops!
K-Mart rocked though, no kidding.
There are still a few open in the Detroit-Metro area.

No, I think we are still on topic come to think of it.
Seeing as how consumer spending accounts for 70%
OF the economy I guess it is more than relevant,
shopping is imperative!!! Yay!!!
(who doesn't like to shop!)

(now we shop for survival supplies)

[edit on 25-3-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by calihan_12
I almost feel as though all of this was planned.

It seems like everything unfolded so quickly and so easily simply overnight.

Is the government doing this to us on purpose?

It seems that way, doesn't it??
Hindsite is always 20/20, but looking back you can see how pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

"Rule 1: Never allow a crisis to go to waste," White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told the New York Times right after the election. "They are opportunities to do big things."

L.A. Times - Source

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told an audience Friday "never waste a good crisis."

Reuters - Source

Good thread.

It is very altruistic of some of you to truly believe that the people can still have an impact on this situation.

However, I am skeptical as to whether or not that can happen by traditional political avenues anymore (ie contacting reps, making petitions, voting people out [which unfortunately requires time that we probably don't have], etc). I remember reading articles, hearing radio shows, and watching YouTube videos that reported that during the run-up to first bailout legislation in late 2008 citizens were calling congresspeople 1000 to 1 against passing the legislation. Yet, the bill was still rammed through and the money handed out to the nation's 'to-big-to-fail' companies. Then on top of that the person doling out all this cash is in an unelected position and there is very little transparency as to where and to whom some of the money is actually going. And who knows how many more of these stimulus packages are in store down the line. Are we at 3 now, or is it 4? Honestly, I've stopped counting.

I liked the Peter Schiff interview on MSNBC that was embedded on page 2 or 3, when him and Joe are talking about whether the bailouts were the right direction to go or if the recession should have been left to run its course and rebalance the markets naturally. Reminded me of a quote that I hadn't thought of in a while. Something along the lines of--the right thing and the easy thing aren't always the same. Makes me wonder if this is all truly planned and coordinated for some other hidden agenda. If economists are spouting this stuff on MSM, you would think that the geniuses in office would know that by monetizing the debt they are pushing us closer towards a hyperinflationary depression, the likes of which some predict will rival pre-WW2 Germany.

Now we're spiraling down the rabbit hole...
And no one seems to know where the bottom is...

It is at the point where I cannot even watch or listen to news--gossip--anymore. Everybody tells a different story. Everybody points fingers at someone else. Everybody seems to have their own agendas, predictions, and solutions. Divide and conquer, no?

I am realizing that it is more important to be a self-governing, morally upstanding citizen of Earth than it is to look to some rhetoric-spewing celebrity icons, talking heads, or representatives for guidance. We'll probably never meet them or truly know them anyways. It is more important to live your everday to your highest moral ability. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Don't support people, businesses, corporations whose moral standards would compromise your own moral self worth. I'm thinking the best thing to do is to start locally. But think very locally. Do everything you can to support your family and friends first while opening dialogues to spread information and ideas. It might be hard at first, but once people understand that your main concerns are health, security, longevity, prosperity, this will create a practical network of support.

I have NOT been saving money for months now. With the word that the Fed is monetizing the debt I keep hearing that hyperinflation is on the horizon. This is going to make it very difficult to buy things. I get my paychecks twice a month, pay my bills, spend some on myself and friends for fun stuff, but the rest I try to spend while the banks are still open and while prices are still low. I try to buy practical items, things that will not be obsolete technology in 3 months. Mostly, I buy things for my vegetable garden because that is a long term solution. It is not practical to rely on food that has to be shipped thousands of miles to my dinner plate. I just pray that the Food and Safety Modernization Act gets held up and squashed, because gardening has become quite an obsession for me, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Anywho, thats my take/rant for now. Need to get to work so that TPTB can claim their stake in my labor for the day.

EDIT-Grammar

[edit on 25-3-2009 by PH43DRUS]

I think a (great big wopping) chunk of the problem is that the banks, with their easy access to money provided by the Government AKA the tax payers purse, they are not borrowing it all out to businesses and to the everyday joe-public as we are seen as 'risks' in the current state of affairs. As a lot of businesses are reliant on loans to make payments in order to keep a float they are finding themselfs sinking fast as they find themselfs cut off from the flow of money.

So banks are apparrently taking their cheap money and investing in other 'safer' things instead such as treasury bonds and in the UK at least the government is trying to combat this by so called 'quantitative easing', apparently part of the easing process is that the government makes buying up of treasury bonds a less attractive option for banks and effectively forces them to invest elsewhere.

It goes to show how much control the banks have at running the country does it not?


[edit on 25-3-2009 by freeradical]

Here is what I am waiting to see: you know how we keep hearing this talk about how the G-Men are trying everything they know to set the banks up so they can start lending money again? Well, just wait and see how easy it will be to borrow that money. You'd probably have to be working 7 jobs, and then sign in blood after putting up every single thing you own as collateral. They are going to hold onto that money like there's no tomorrow, that's my prediction. But hopefully I am wrong.

I work for myself in the construction industry here in the UK. I have a fair bit of work but i am struggling to complete works as all of my suppliers have either dropped my credit terms or are unable to get credit themselves from higher up the chain.

Obviously this results in no materials & limited cash-flow, and speaking to other trades i`m not the only one this is happening too. If this is happening to me a small sole trader what is it doing to bigger employers?
Perhaps the new labour govt. here want to completely shut down the free market economy so they can get us all working for big organisations on a minimum wage with complete control.

reply to post by nelson123


You know, that's a scary thought friend!!!
But it really does seem that way, does it not? It's ingenius of them really, enabling mass production/construction/agriculture at a smidgen of the price that it would cost at the moment.
Endentured servitude....Not very pretty.
I personally will fight tooth and nail if I must. It's probably going to take a lot more than what is happening now with our economy to wake up enough people to even attempt to stop this though.
Nothing short of marching in force on state or national capitals and demanding something be done will change what is happening now.

Come to the good old UK - we have more cctv square mile than the USA, Russia or China. Our government wants traces on all social network websites and certainly over the last 10 years there has been less than subtle advertising to report misdemeanors of any sort. We are now witnessing invigorated media reporting on the increasing threat of terrorism - even dirty bombs!

Is this just the acclimatisation of an unsuspecting public into accepting the need for a police state. I fear our country - known for standing up for freedom - is on the slippery road to totalitarianism!

Oh! and PS our economic situation is much worse than in the US.

reply to post by calihan_12


I have been thinking all day about how to respond to your post. First of all, it seems that you are pretty young and this is a good sign that people in your generation are lstening to what is possibly happening in our world and country. I. as well as you, am afraid. It's ok to be afraid.

I think in some ways that we ALL are afraid of what may happen. But, I have found that personally it does help to get away from this for awhile and take some time to just breathe! One of my personal tricks, when in a funk, is to see how many people you can reach out to in a day. For example; if you go to the store tonight, be the first one to help someone with their bags (like the elderly).

Say something nice, or bring up a topic to someone in line that sparks happy conversation! I know this won't solve the world's woes and the economy but kindness goes a long way in a world where it is so needed.Whatever method you choose will be the right one for you..

I also would like to suggest that you start an informal group of people your age, who also have these concerns and maybe, just maybe, you can prove that the country DOES have a bright future because of your talking and actions! I know it is hard. As a matter of fact, I am looking at losing my job not because of the economy, but because my owner/boss is a complete drunken idiot who has mismanaged everything! I recently recommended he recruit some recent gaduates to help out with the business and that went ignored!! So just rremember that there are those of us who do look to the generation below us to "lead the way"...

And, you are part of that already by showing such interest and angst.We will depend on you very shortly so buck up, be a leader and show the world we ARE as great a people we can be and are!!

disclaimer: yes, I am not sure we are going down a happy path either. But it is and has always been my inclination to be a :moderator/cheerleader/sprinkler of fairy dust/happy sensual silly/moon child, ok?

Hang in there!
FMF

reply to post by Bombeni
Bombeni - in the UK it was reported in all mediums 2-years ago the level of personal debt was at an all time record and that it was unsustainable. The fact is that even if money was available to borrow in the UK (supposedly to stimulate some sort of spending frenzy to save the world economy) here just won't be too many takers for the following reasons:

1. People no longer have sufficient cash inflow to service the monthly repayments on the current commitments - let alone new debt.
2. People know that as soon as the "green shoots of recovery" start to show through - even without real, and sustained evidence - that interest rates will be hiked upwards. The result - people can't repay for the increased borrowing.

Given that the UK Government has pumped billions into educating more young people to degree level it beggers belief that they think that people don't or do not have the brains to appreciate or understand how this same government and the state run media are trying to manipulate them.

The government's and treasury's behaviour is nothing more than at best disgraceful and at worst diabolical!

I believe the only thing we can do (all of us) is to disconnect ourselves from "things of this world" ....and give up our love of money and replace it with love of God and family first...........we are a spoiled people and we think we find fulfillment in money,things etc instead of whats really important and what can really fulfill our lives that is tangible and everlasting compared to nontangible things that pass away with the using .......we better get back to what is important and fulfilling which is God ,family,friends,neighbors (People in general).......

I could see the writing on the wall when Reagan described our future as no longer being a producer of products for the world ,but as a country that provides financial services by way of our hi tech industries that were speeding things up and making it possible to store huge quantities of information..... Thank you Mr Reagan and your Cohorts that has brought us to this low point in our history as a nation. I don't go to Wal-Mart but I like the shares that reside in the family stock portfolio. It has helped us to maintain stability in what is becoming very unstable.

Pardon me, and correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the whole point of this discussion is that the OP is upset and worried about the current state of the economy.

I think we should be trying to help her out as well as offering all of the dire news which is so readily available elsewhwere.

Am I right?

The sad part is , none of this is even close to over. The economy is only PART of what is going on, not to mention rights that are being stepped on, bills being passed to push us farther into a state of complete obliteration.

They just keep printing money there in Washington and expecting it to be ok, and its not. If WE were to do that , they would throw us in jail. Why? Because you have to have gold to back your paper.....and guess what, they dont have the gold to back their paper.

The rest of the world is getting pretty pissed right now because we owe them money........things do not bode well for us right now.....but only we can change it, only the American people can stand up and take responsibility and stop this.

The party lines need to stop, the bickering needs to stop. Its time to do something, its time to stop the fools in Washington and take back our country ......it IS OUR country, it wasnt meant to be a political battle ground.

We use to be the country people came to because of the"American Dream" I hate see that notion become nothing more than an unreachable wish.

Mr. Greed, why you got to own everything that you see?
Mr. Greed, why you put a chain on everybody livin' free?
You're hungerin' for his house, you're hungerin' for his wife,
And your appetite will never be denied.
You're a devil of consumption; I hope you choke, Mr. Greed.

CHORUS:
How do you get away with robbin'? Did your mother teach you how?
I hear you got away with murder, did you do your mama proud?

Mr. Greed, why you got to take more than you can ever use?
Bring 'em to their knees; isn't it enough just to win while they lose?
You bring no honor to the game, you feast upon the blood and pain,
But the bones you hoard can only bring you shame.
There's corruption in your path, be that your epitaph, Mr. Greed.
Mr. Greed by John Fogerty

This is what happened to our country as well as the other countries.

I worked in the summer of 1963 for a used car dealer.

The salesmen would sell anyone a car that had a down payment. The buyer would default in payments and the car would be repossessed and sold again. One car might be sold many times.

The car dealer did not care if the buyer could afford the car. He only wanted his down payment and usually that covered the actual cost of the car we bought at the car auction.

I opened a 300 space mobile home park in 1971. It was disgraceful what the mobile home dealers would do to the young and inexperienced buyers.

Again there would be a big down payment, high interest and no restrictions concerning weather the buyer had the income to pay the loan back.

After about two years of seeing what was happening I would do a credit check on all rental space applicants to make sure they could afford to pay my company the lot rental fee.

This was also happening in the stick housing industry.

Greed is our enemy. We are the people of the USA. This is our country. The government works for us. We pay them with our taxes. They are our servants. We elected them.

It is time we the people of the United States of America made each and every elected official accountable 100% 365 days of the year.

We have a strong voice. We need to ask questions and demand answers.

I'm open to any ideas how we can make this happen.

Age has nothing to do with this awakening. Being 24 years old I have begun to realize that in the near future...

A loan will only be an extreme means of getting money simply b/c it cost twice as long as it has in the past to pay off.

No credit will soon enough be just as good as good credit. If you have bad credit may God help you. At least this may get us out of the credit card game that I have refused to join.

Soon, minimum wage will be the norm. College grads in the tech field will be lucky to make $5 over the minimum.

The more that lobbyists flood the government and control corporate regulation the more the middle class will be destroyed.

... is it really that hard to understand?

Originally posted by freeradical
I think a (great big wopping) chunk of the problem is that the banks, with their easy access to money provided by the Government AKA the tax payers purse, they are not borrowing it all out to businesses and to the everyday joe-public as we are seen as 'risks' in the current state of affairs. As a lot of businesses are reliant on loans to make payments in order to keep a float they are finding themselfs sinking fast as they find themselfs cut off from the flow of money.

So banks are apparrently taking their cheap money and investing in other 'safer' things instead such as treasury bonds and in the UK at least the government is trying to combat this by so called 'quantitative easing', apparently part of the easing process is that the government makes buying up of treasury bonds a less attractive option for banks and effectively forces them to invest elsewhere.

It goes to show how much control the banks have at running the country does it not?


[edit on 25-3-2009 by freeradical]

Get it right the government borrowed the money from the banks at interest and then gave the money to the banks ....... Jeeezzz with all the truth being preached here and some of You still have not figured it out. We are being royally Farked big time and We will pay for it through inflation.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


We still are that country,and if we all act together and put our thoughts together, it can happen! We can and will arise again, or at least remain, the great poeple we all are despite the few who rae poisoned among us.

Love,
FMF

I'm 19 and I can't find crap. Even people with diplomas often are forced to work minimum wage, especially if they don't have prior experience.

Our fate was sealed the day Richard Nixon stepped foot in China and ushered in a new age of cooperation and understanding.

We and the world were better off not trading with them keeping that whole country isolated and backward.

We and the rest of the Democratic/Capitalist world can't compete which is so very obvious now.

This whole mess can be seen by every concession we gave them yellow bastards. And yes that is what they are.