Wheel Within a Wheel?

reply to post by esteay812


lol dead people...

hehe thats so funny..

ok the story is as follows

a wheel in a wheel is a self bio of ones own understanding.. hence why it makes kinda no sense

you asked me about four wheels four wings wheels that do not move

what do you see here? really? a car? a bird? a broken car with wheels that do not infact move?

You need to understand the reason for it more than looking at it with ones eyes closed

wheel in a wheel.. is just him contmplatiing the universe and infact telling me you and others.. how this vision of his came about..

he was told by another being "dont know who" that we are infact our own gods.. we are the wheel in a wheel

some people call it the flower or life or scared geomity.. when its all the same crap neways

we are made from the same crap that made that think you look up at, its called the sky

do you think the universe and you are some how not related???LOL

You me and the universe ARE THE SAME THING

why? well whatever made IT made YOU

logical dont you think?

back on topic how is this a wheel within a wheel please explain.

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Of course we are all entangled, connecting each of us to every single thing (known and unknown) in the universe. After everything I have seen and read about this I just can't accept that he was only describing a metaphor.

reply to post by lighter78


i just did?

ok ...

if you dont get the jist ill make it simple for the new peeps

Put a mirror on the floor point it at the sky.. what do you see?

the sky... do you know why i asked this? because everytime you open them blinkers you call eyes you see your own relfection.. and no its not a picture of you but its your own relaity shining back at you

wheel in a wheel.. Symmerty

its simple as it gets. tho ill be honest i did try and draw it and so di salvador darli but all we can do it make pictures that make no sens ..

its about YOU being in the UNIVERSE

its not so complex nore is it a flying machine.. it anything it describes ones jurney through life..

you was made the very same way the univers was.. dont you find that odd? or atleast interesting?

THE universe was made the same way YOU WAS.. its not stupid nore is it ilogical

something > universe > humans

go look up my thread on why we are quantum comptures may help you,,

if not ill be happy to hand out links for quatum p 101 and some physics lessons

maths is helpfull

reply to post by esteay812


its not a metaphore its infact a diary of his life...

if i could say the univere is what? i think the best way to put it is indeed a wheel in a wheel..

or would you prefer me to say symmertying into infinity?

same thing really

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


He described what he saw, a physical object. If what he described actually was what he thought of his own existence it would be a metaphor describing such. Because he describe a physical object seems to leave out the possibility for his thoughts to be philosophy or a metaphor of human existence.

Press the heels of your hands against your eyeballs and you are likely to see all sorts of strange, hard-to-describe and rapidly changing shapes. The same can happen in a variety of other conditions...like when a man is stuck out under the burning sun in a desert with no water, getting weak and dizzy. Even before his little desert jaunt, the man is generally preoccupied with the topic of visions and raptures and a kind of frenzied, fever-dream spirituality (and that certainly describes Ezekiel). Under such circumstances, I don't find it hard to believe such a man might see some random flickering shapes in the eye that he can only describe vaguely as "a wheel within a wheel."

Actually, there is a whole field of mystical literature focusing on Ezekiel's chariot, for those who want to delve into the whole thing a bit more deeply:
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by silent thunder


Basically, you are saying he was hallucinating? You believe then he couldn't be explaining a physical object or a metaphor for the human condition? Interesting take on the subject as it seems to be a very valid point.

Ezekiel 1:16 "This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel."

Ezekiel 1:4 (NIV)
I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north--an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal

Blumrich summary:
The spacecraft begins at some distance from the prophet in its initial descent. Vapour cloud is from cooling preliminary to firing of rocket engine. Rocket engine is then fired.

Ezekiel 1:5 (NIV)
and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man

Blumrich summary:
Looking upward, the prophet sees four shapes surrounded by fire and vapour that look alive. These are helicopter-like bodies deployed before landing.

Ezekiel 1:6 (NIV)
but each of them had four faces and four wings.

Blumrich summary:
The prophet is now able to see more detail because the craft is at low altitude. He sees the four blades of the rotors and the fairing housings above the rotors that give the appearance of faces.

Ezekiel 1:7 (NIV)
Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze.

Blumrich summary:
This is a description of the landing legs. The legs have shock absorbers and round footpads.

Ezekiel 1:8 (NIV)
Under their wings on their four sides they had the hands of a man. All four of them had faces and wings,

Blumrich summary:
This refers to remote-controlled mechanical arms hanging along side the cylindrical helicopter bodies.

Ezekiel 1:9 (NIV)
and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.

Blumrich summary:
A reference to the helicopter blades protruding outward is made.

Ezekiel 1:10 (NIV)
Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.

Blumrich summary:
The fairing surfaces, which protect the gears and other control devices above the rotors, look to the prophet like faces. The fairings are irregular in shape with some raised and some cut out areas, all of which lends itself to an awe-struck interpretation on the prophet's part. By way of example, Blumrich shows photos of Gemini and Apollo capsules that at certain angles look like monsters. Because like faces face in like directions, we see that the rotors are synchronized at rest position.

Ezekiel 1:11 (NIV)
Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out upward; each had two wings, one touching the wing of another creature on either side, and two wings covering its body.

Blumrich summary:
The first part refers to the rotor blades being divided. The suggestion is that there is a kind of gap in the control mechanism or fairing. The last part of the verse refers to the rotor blades folded in an up and down position.

Ezekiel 1:12 (NIV)
Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went.

Blumrich summary:
This refers to the landing leg assembly and the retractable wheels as part of each leg assembly. Ezekiel doesn't see the wheels until they are actually deployed in verse fifteen. Verses nine, twelve and fifteen are interrelated.

Ezekiel 1:13 (NIV)
The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it.

Blumrich summary:
Ezekiel is referring to the flowing reactor radiator and the bursts from the control rockets. The lightning effect comes from what would seem like leaping random fire but in fact is controlled bursts from the various control rockets for stabilization purposes.

Ezekiel 1:14 (NIV)
The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.

Blumrich summary:
The spacecraft hovers and moves in various directions until a suitable landing site is found.

Ezekiel 1:15 (NIV)
As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces.

Blumrich summary:
The wheels are deployed. They appear at the very moment they become necessary.

Ezekiel 1:16-21 (NIV)
This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around. When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

Blumrich summary:
The greenish-bluish color of the wheels suggests a protective film or coating. A further description of advanced reversible wheels is given. Ezekiel is confused - looks to him like a wheel within a wheel. These wheels look like they are obeying orders. He has had experience with wheels but these are puzzling. Thus he gives much time to their description. The craft rolls on the ground, probably in a maneuver to find the most suitable site.

Ezekiel 1:22 (NIV)
Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked like an expanse, sparkling like ice, and awesome.

Blumrich summary:
Here is a description of the main body of the craft. We get its basic shape, spreading out like a "firmament." The surface of the main body is metallic, shining, bright.

www.thelightside.org...

[edit on 3-4-2009 by esteay812]

reply to post by esteay812


Here is the rest of the description:

Ezekiel 1:23 (NIV)
Under the expanse their wings were stretched out one toward the other, and each had two wings covering its body.

Blumrich summary:
We are given additional information concerning the position of the helicopter-like appendages relative to the main body. Rotor blades are at rest.

Ezekiel 1:24-25 (NIV)
When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings. Then there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads as they stood with lowered wings.

Blumrich summary:
Blumrich feels these verses are out of order. They describe operating rotor blade motors and the resultant sound effects.

Ezekiel 1:26 (NIV)
Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man.

Blumrich summary:
The prophet sees the command module shaped and colored like a cabachon-cut sapphire. Seated in the pilot's seat is a man.

Ezekiel 1:27 (NIV)
I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him.

Blumrich summary:
The prophet describes the light effects of the commander's flight suit which, in Blumrich's opinion, are reminiscent of the light effects caused by the reflecting surfaces of certain insulation materials used in the Apollo lunar module. (See Rev 1:12-15 and Dan 10:6) It might be enlightening here to mention the light effects, especially the golden glow effect, described by some present-day witnesses to UFO close encounters, people who have been in near proximity to UFO crew members. A classic example of such an effect would be the Fatima incident earlier in the century. An interesting explanation of this effect is offered by an extraterrestrial in Charles Silva's "Date With The Gods."

Ezekiel 1:28 (NIV)
Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.

Blumrich summary:
Here are the optical light effects of the translucent cabachon-shaped command module sitting atop the main body of the spacecraft. Sunlight hitting the translucent surface and reflecting off other surfaces inside the module causes a rainbow light effect. (See Enoch 14:9-22 and Rev 4:3) Blumrich emphasizes that the brightness was "round about him." It did not emanate from "him." Him, we should carefully note, refers to Ezekiel's initial mistake of identity - confusing the spacecraft with God himself.

www.thelightside.org...

edit for credit

[edit on 3-4-2009 by esteay812]

Originally posted by esteay812


Basically, you are saying he was hallucinating? You believe then he couldn't be explaining a physical object or a metaphor for the human condition? Interesting take on the subject as it seems to be a very valid point.

I don't pretend to have a clue what went on but yes, I'm basically tossing that idea out there as a possibility. Ezekiel is certainly one of the more...shall we say...eccentric prophets, and that's saying something indeed, in a field known for eccentricity anyway. If you read the rest of the book, the whole thing is very odd.

Perhaps he was a schitzoid type. Throughout history many of the more coherent schitzophrenics have been called "touched by God."

Thanks for the quotes, by the way. Very interesting.

Another possibility is that it is an astronmical/astrological metaphor. Lots of the odder passages in the bible can and have been broken down as encoding information about the night sky. Basically the entire book of Revelation can be read this way; I don't have a link for you but as far back as the 1700s people were analyzing it in this way.

[edit on 4/3/09 by silent thunder]