It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Do the Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason? Top Constitutional Scholar Says Yes

page: 1
17
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 05:48 AM
link   

Do the Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason? Top Constitutional Scholar Says Yes


www.alternet.or g

In early March, more shocking details emerged about George W. Bush legal counsel John Yoo's memos outlining the destruction of the republic.

The memos lay the legal groundwork for the president to send the military to wage war against U.S. citizens; take them from their homes to Navy brigs without trial and keep them forever; close down the First Amendment; and invade whatever country he chooses without regard to any treaty or objection by Congress.
The memos are a confession. The memos could not be clearer: This was the legal groundwork of an attempted coup. I expected massive front page headlines from the revelation that these memos exited. Almost nothing. I was shocked.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.propublica.org
www.huffingtonpost.com

jonathanturley.org




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 05:48 AM
link   
With more and more articles and news about the "missing memos" appearing, it seems that the outrage against some of Bush and Cheney's decisions (based on erroneous legal advice) is gathering pace, although Obama seems reluctant to pursue them.

It is more likely that the author of the memos, John Yoo will be the fall guy and some have already called for his disbarment.

For those who do not know, the memo's gave a certain legal credence to a variety of "unconstitutional" actions, including, but not limited to:
*Torture
*Troops being deployed inside US borders
*Troops acting as a de facto police force
*The suspension of the 1st amendment
*The suspension of the 4th amendment
*The suspension of the 5th amendment
*The expansion of electronic surveillance
*Warrantless wiretapping

There are many others relating to these - read the pro republica link for full details.

The article states that in the opinion of top constitutional lawyer Michael Ratner, the US was very close to becoming a dictatorship through use of the powers listed in the memo, and he cites historical precedence for these thoughts.

Bush and Cheney traitors?
It seems that more and more people think so...

www.alternet.or g
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 05:51 AM
link   


It is more likely that the author of the memos, John Yoo will be the fall guy and some have already called for his disbarment.


My how the times have changed. Treason used to carry a penalty that was just a little bit stiffer than possible disbarment.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Karlhungis]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 05:52 AM
link   
No you think? Obama, if he would have been a real patriot, which he is totally NOT, would have put an arrest as soon as he would have been in. An arrest for the whole Bush administration, a lot of pentagon people and CIA people and Guantanamo people and the bankers. Use the patriot act to get the real terrorists. That would have given back the confidence in the economy and in the government. But no, he's protecting them.

My wish is that all that scum be hanged on world TV for war crimes. And war crimes under US law is death penalty.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 06:17 AM
link   
My oh my, how the Yanks nearly crossed the Rubicon, eh?

The parallels with Ancient Rome are staggering, and we all know how that turned out!

The only question that really remains is: who are the barbarians, this time?

Beward, America, for your republicanism will be put to an end by your own Julius Caesar! A monarchy by any other name is still monarchy.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 08:21 AM
link   
reply to post by budski
 


So your point is that Bush/Cheney were going to become dictators.... So what happened, they got too tired and just gave up the fight? Bush isnt even president anymore, so why dont you just let it go and move on.

I am sure if he wanted to form a dictatorship and a military coup, he would have gotten a little further than just having the paperwork drawn up.

Did you ever stop to think that if this is even true, it is probably in the context of preparing for another attack, or having the powers to stop the next attack by any means possible? I am pretty sure that if you want to become a dictator you dont worry about prepping the paperwork before hand. Usually you take military control of the country. Then, when you are all powerful you change the laws to cement your power.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by justsomeboreddude]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 08:58 AM
link   
reply to post by justsomeboreddude
 



So your point is that Bush/Cheney were going to become dictators.... So what happened, they got too tired and just gave up the fight?


They had everything on the shelves.

They were ready to declare martial law and proclaim Bush the new "Chancellor of Amerika".

They needed excuses, deliberate or not, to scare the American people into believing the danger their nation faced was greater than it actually was so they would exchange liberty for security, alas committing the great mistake Ben Franklin alluded to.

The problem they faced was they just couldn't find the right combination of political, social and economical crises that the American people would actually find dire enough to allow their government to declare Martial Law and give Bush unprecedented Emergency Powers

They had 9/11, whether it was by accident or not, but it wasn't enough.
That only bought them the Patriot Act and 2 fruitless wars.

Not all-out dictatorship.
Basically, they stopped short of actually purposefully creating the right conditions for a coup via false-flag attacks because they didn't want the public to consider them so incompetent as to allow 2 or even more massive terrorist attacks to occur on their watch.

Which would only serve to anger the public, not frighten them.

Nevertheless the damage done has been more than enough. They spent the US into the ground. The wiped their asses with the Constitution. They rendered the Intelligence & Defence Organs of America as nothing more but political Stormtroopers to be used for their own selfish purposes and to quash dissent.

They tried false-flag operations: the Anthrax scare, the constant home-made Bin Laden videos, the constant warnings about attacks that never came, the plans to start a war with Iran, the takeover of the nation's media and publicity outlets, etc.

They tried their absolute hardest to pull off one of the greatest heists of all time and they sure as hell came closer than anyone else has in history.


Bush isnt even president anymore, so why dont you just let it go and move on.


"Let it go and move on"?

That's cute in a juvenile sort of way.
Just drop it dude, it's like totally over now.

Letting people who attempted to turn the United States into totalitarian, fascist Republic run scott-free is nothing short of treason in my eyes.

You fail to speak up or stop it when you see it, you are complicit.


[edit on 25/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:01 AM
link   
I have just one question. Do those memos still have any weight or have they been totally quashed?
While I respect what Obama has been doing so far, he is human, and if frustrated enough by conditions might be tempted to use some of those powers himself, if he could. Maybe that is a small part of the reason he seems reticent to pursue the issue.
Mostly I think he is focusing on bridge-building, but one wonders.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:05 AM
link   
reply to post by wayno
 



Maybe that is a small part of the reason he seems reticent to pursue the issue.


Obama is Bush in a different skin colour and some new shoes.

People keep thinking he's willing to take on anything and everyone in the name of "change & hope".

Obama has limits as well. The powerful interests, business, and shadow government that played Bush like a sock puppet are also now controlling Obama behind the scenes.

Obama cannot dissolve what has become entrenched in US politics since the 1950's.
The military-industrial complex.

It's as embedded into US politics as the Constitution. These people pull the strings and always have.

And anyone who actually has a shot of running for President knows full well they have to play ball, or they're not going to become President, period.

[edit on 25/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:22 AM
link   
This would not be the first time that a group of individuals conspired to overthrow this government, and frankly, there was a "Bush" in the mix last time too!

Even before that we had those who 'know better' trying to secure their 'rightful' place..., and all of them have one thing in common.... heritage.

I'm not sure why our kids aren't taught about these historical facts. I guess it's too scary....



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:52 AM
link   
treason? Yes. Will anything be done about it? Not at all. The politicalpower machine will continue to chug along protecting it's own despite all the promises that are made.

The people will all say we need a revolution but refuse to leave their couches cause no one wants to be a martyr.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:01 AM
link   
I think folks are being a little rough on Obama in this case. While I disagree with the idea of "just letting it go" and fully subscribe to the school of thought which says justice is required, the fact is it's too early in this game to know what the outcome will be.

Let's remember: Obama hasn't even been in office for 100 days yet. The Justice Department he will have to rely upon in order to conduct any serious investigation is still filled with Bush's crony appointments, some (possibly many) of whom were complicit in the decision-making process that led to this. Many of these hold loyalty to the Republican Party above Justice, or believe wholeheartedly in Bush's authoritarian, Neo-Con philosophy and doctrines. Until they are rooted out and removed there can be no meaningful investigation. It's like asking Al Capone's top hit-men to investigate their own boss.

I'm not happy with the situation either. I'm disgusted at the fact that Karl Rove is making a comfy, at least six-figure salary working for Fox "News" as a "political analyst" rather than rotting in jail for Contempt of Congress after his "I'm just not going to answer that Congressional subpoena" stunt. God, can you imagine how much outrage the Republican Congress would have shown had Clinton outright refused to cooperate with the Lewinsky/Whitewater/etc. witch-hunt? We'd never hear the end of it. Not that Clinton was a saint; economically he had a big hand in our current woes and he's a disgusting misogynist pig but there's a real double standard here. I'm sure Congressional Democrats did what they thought was right in order to secure victory in November but at what cost? Though in hindsight, again, any serious investigation would have gone through the Bush Justice Department, which would have been effectively in the position of investigating itself.

Right now we're just at the beginning of the "discovery" phase. I think if enough evidence comes to light we'll see some action, but it's too early to call at this point.

And personally I don't believe the cynical BS that "it doesn't matter who's in power, they all serve the same masters". That kind of thought gets us nowhere. It's an "out" for people who fear that getting involved in the process is somehow "surrendering" to the shadowy Powers That Be. In fact, our involvement is exactly what TPTB fear.

I think the political cynicism displayed at ATS is precisely what They want: A bunch of disparate individuals passive-aggressively typing out their frustrations on the Internet are a lot easier to manage than, say, a quarter-million screaming mad people bearing down on the halls of power or dozens of freshly-minted Representatives and Senators who can't be easily "bought" because they came to power through grass-roots support rather than graft. I believe Obama is such a person: Observe the outrage when, during the campaign, he was making millions of dollars a week in contributions--"We don't know who these people are!" "What are they hiding?" "They must be violating the rules somehow!" In fact the majority of those contributions came from individuals donating less than $1000; often less than $100, all of which requires no identification on the part of the donor. It was a successful, grass-roots campaign and that, my friends, scares Them to no end--because it proves We the People aren't all just sitting comfortably in front of the Idiot Box pretending to be islands unto ourselves anymore.

Are these partisan issues? To some degree yes, but to other degrees, no. It's a philosophical issue.

Conservative philosophy, as practiced these past 30 years or so, can pretty much be summed up as "It's every man of himself--get what you can and screw everyone else". It's the philosophy of the Mega-Rich Elite, and a sad shadow of true Conservatism, which pretty much died with Dwight Eisenhower and Barry Goldwater.

Liberal philosophy, on the other hand, is based on the simple truth that we're all in this together. Everyone has something to contribute, and everyone has some responsibility to everyone else, regardless of whether or not they choose to recognize it--because that's how civilized society works. Generally, Republicans subscribe to Conservatism (or its current form, at least). So do some Democrats, although the majority of Democrats are either Liberal or somewhere in between.

I think far too many of us are so caught up in conspiracy theory that we've largely "given up" on politics and being involved in general. Some have, regrettably, become so enamored of fantasies about a strictly Constitutional society (at least according to their interpretation of the Constitution) that they fall for the Big Lie, and come to the conclusion that no matter who is in power, they are an agent of The Enemy (subscribing to the unfortunate belief that the only avenue to Power is through corruption).

This belief, in my opinion, is harmful to Society. It's depressive. It's childish, leading people to say "Screw you guys, I'm going home" rather than "Yes, it's broken--now what part can I play in setting it right again?" Above all, it's cowardly--better to avoid our responsibility to Society and hide in our "bunkers" watching the world go to Hell rather than get involved and risk disappointment when things don't happen exactly as we want.

It's simple, really: If you want to be a part of the solution, do it. If you don't like the fact that we effectively have a two-party system, rather than complaining about how independents and smaller parties don't stand a chance get involved with whichever party is closer to your worldview and work to make it what you want it to be.

It's the 21st Century, folks. The problems we face are enormous and complex and largely of our own making. As much as I want to see Justice done for the abuses of the previous administration(s), we can't let ourselves get so bogged down in its pursuit that we lose focus on the Future, both in the short-and long-term. Focusing only on the needs and desires of the Present is part of what got us here in the first place, and such thinking isn't about to start solving our problems now.

[edit on 3/25/2009 by The Nighthawk]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:18 PM
link   
As I've said before, this will be a slow, drawn out process if it happens at all.

A reasonable indicator that things are moving in a certain direction (that of censure of Bush & co at the very least) is the fact that John Yoo and his legal opinions are being discussed in depth in more mainstream publications.

IF, and it's a big if, Obama is on board with this, he will have to move slowly in order to avoid many of the pitfalls which would accompany any action he might take.

Just look what happened to previous presidents who tried to take on the status quo of the military industrial complex, and TPTB.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 06:15 PM
link   
Great post Nighthawk (S&F).

Rove himself committed treason when he leaked CIA agent Plame's name to the media. Considering we were (and still are) in a "war on terrorism" then leaking this information should be met with a death sentence.

Think what you will about Bush's policies, but his and his staff's conduct is nothing short of treasonous and despicable. HANG THE TRAITORS.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 06:32 PM
link   
It sure seems that with Mr. Obama's disasterous start as President, there are more and more people willing to return the focus to Bush. There is no doubt that anything Bush did as President was to protect the citizens of the United States of America.

BTW if I hear the phrase "But Obama has only been in office for 30...40...60... days" I think I am going to puke. The next thing you know we will be hearing "well he has only been in office for 4 years and he needs another 4 years to get the job done."

Also wasn't Mr. Obama a "Constititional Scholar?" If so, that just shows you what they think should be taken with a grain of salt.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 07:06 PM
link   

It sure seems that with Mr. Obama's disasterous start as President, there are more and more people willing to return the focus to Bush.


What does Obama have to do with these memos? If Bush or any members of his cabinet committed treason then they should be treated as traitors. Obama or no Obama.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:16 PM
link   
Reply to Blackmarketeer:

It's the classic "Your guy is worse than my guy" routine.

Going after Bush for trivial things is a way to feel better about your own failed President.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 10:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by RRconservative
There is no doubt that anything Bush did as President was to protect the citizens of the United States of America.


Really?
I didn't think there was much blindly loyal Bush supporters here, learn something new everyday.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 10:51 PM
link   
Hmmm, Ratner you say? The current President of CCR.


Source
...Michael Ratner is the son of the late real estate and building supply magnate Harry Ratner. As a young man, Michael Ratner wanted to study archaeology. But according to him, after seeing how his father managed to often "help the little guy," he decided to study law instead. Ratner says that watching his father feed ex-cons at the family dinner table, help resettle refugees in the U.S. after World War II and anonymously provide for people who had been burned out of their homes had a profound influence on his decision to become a lawyer as a way of helping "the little guy." But as both his client list and record of litigation while working for both the CCR and the NLG indicate, instead of fighting for the little guy, it seems that Michael Ratner has, more often than not, fought for the bad guy. ..

...Michael Ratner has, for much of his life, maintained close ties with Cuba and the Castro regime...

...The CCR was founded in 1966 by attorneys Morton Stavis, William Kunstler, Ben Smith and Arthur Kinoy--all members of either the Communist Party or the radical left. Before forming CCR, Kunstler and Kinoy drafted and circulated a detailed memo calling for the creation of a 'new Communist Party.' That never materialized. Instead, Kunstler and the other lawyers, some of whom were also members of the National Lawyers Guild, a communist front group,
focused their energies on building the CCR and formulating and fulfilling its main mission of clearing legal roadblocks for leftist revolutionaries and enemies of the U.S....

...CCR clients, past and present, include:

* Leonard Peltier, convicted of murdering two FBI agents.
* The Armed Forces of Puerto Rican National Liberation, (FALN) which
was responsible for more than 50 bomb attacks on U.S. political and military targets between 1974 and 1983.
* Victor Manuel Gerena, who was trained by the Puerto Rican terrorist group Macheteros (Machete Wielders) and is accused of robbing 7 million dollars from a Connecticut security company in 1983, taking two guards hostage in the process. He is currently on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list.
* Red Army Faction terrorist Kurt Groenwold, who provided a safe house for Philip Agee, a CIA officer who, after defecting to Cuba, began publishing the Covert Action Information Bulletin which, in his words was "a worldwide campaign to destabilize the CIA through exposure of its operations and personnel."
* Red Army Faction member Yu Kikumura, who was convicted of conspiring to bomb a U.S. Navy recruiting station on behalf of Libya. Kikumura was apprehended at a New Jersey Turnpike service area in possession of three home-made bombs.
* Red Army Faction member Kristina Berster, apprehended carrying an Iranian
passport while entering the U.S. illegally after nine months of terrorist training in Yemen
* Red Army Faction/Baader Meinhof members who bombed U.S. Army and German police stations and provided logistical support for the PLO faction that murdered Israeli Olympic team members during the 1972 Olympics.
* Black Panther "Minister of Justice" H. Rap Brown who murdered a Georgia Sheriff's Deputy and attempted to murder another law enforcement officer
* Black Panther members and cop-killers Abdul Majid and Basheer Hameed
* William Morales a convicted terrorist bomber and a member of the Puerto Rican terrorist group FALN, whose lawyer, Susan Tipograph, a member of the May 19 Communist Order, an offshoot of the old Weather Underground, helped him escape from prison. (Tipograph also represented another CCR favorite, Lynne Stewart, the "blind sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman's lead defense lawyer, after Stewart was charged with acting as a courier between the sheikh and terrorists under his control. CCR filed an amicus brief on Stewart's behalf and it continues to vigorously defend her in the court of public opinion.

CCR has also represented members of the radical anti-U.S. United Freedom Front, which financed itself by robbing banks from Connecticut to Virginia. Its members, later known as the "Ohio Seven," were convicted of involvement in numerous bombings and the murder of a NJ state trooper. Members of the Marxist-Leninist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have been clients of the CCR, as have convicted spy DavidTruong; Wilfred Burchett, a KGB agent and journalist who took the side of North Korea and North Vietnam during their wars with the U.S.; and convicted spy Clayton Lonetree, a U.S. Marine who while stationed in Moscow in 1981, sold U.S. documents and blueprints to the Soviets. More recently CCR represented "dirty bomb" conspirator Jose Padilla....


You are the company you keep. He appears to only defend the lowest lifeforms on the planet and has always sided with Communists and Marxists and never defends their victims. One can conclude he is opposed to Democracy and Capitalism, so he clearly considers the Constitution as irrelevant and yet he earns his living defending cads using the Constitution.

I am not a Bush supporter, but Ratner is far more dangerous than Bush ever was.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:15 PM
link   
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 



They were ready to declare martial law and proclaim Bush the new "Chancellor of Amerika".


I doubt that,

If they indeed planned on doing what ever they were going to do, I imagine Bush would of been the LAST person, declared ultimate leader.



new topics

top topics



 
17
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join