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The dark truths we are happy to ignore.

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posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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Hi all, I have been thinking about this for a while, but only recently thought how I would express my ideas. Basically this thread is about how I feel most people do not really want to know - or rather- acknowledge certain truths. I know there are many definitions of truth and the concept itself is used in a vast range of contexts. I don't wish for this thread to turn into a debate about what is and is not truth. Rather, I wish to show that there appear to be some extremely likely unpleasant truths in all our lives. I don't know the best way to get into the crust of what I want to say, so I will just give some examples I feel support the message I am trying to bring forth. Please try to read this passage in full.

1) Are you a vegetarian? I am not and don't desire to be, but I often wonder whether I should be. Whether it's just thinking about the whole process of how meat is gathered, processed and distributed - it somehow feels wrong. It does not help when you are driving on the free way and you see a massive truck drive past crammed full of cows and other uncomfortable-looking animals that are heading towards their destiny: getting killed and being consumed. We know for a fact that a great deal of suffering and murder goes on to satisfy our appetites but do we want to face the facts and fix the situation? Doubt it. I know I don't. I'd rather just eat my whopper and enjoy the delicious taste.

2) Do you care about the welfare of people from "third world countries"? I would like to think I do; I try to donate money to charities and organisations in need when it is possible. So why have I bought an iPod, new jeans and loads of junk food in the last year? I am certain I can survive easily without these things, but I still "want" them. Should I be getting and enjoying these luxuries while billions of people cannot drink the water I use to bathe with, cannot enjoy the shelter of the house I use to sleep and relax in, or cannot eat the food scraps I throw out after dinner?

3) Do you want multiculturalism to flourish? I don't think I do. Multiculturalism sounds great in terms of meeting people who are different to you, but do I really want people with different skin colours, strange accents, distinct facial features appearing more and more in my life? Is my life made more pleasant when people who are similar to me in culture, appearance and dialogue are the majority in my lives? I don't consider myself a racist, I am just trying to find the truth within.

4) Do you really believe in everybody's right to choose or express their sexual preference? I'm one of those that doesn't mind as long as people do not try to influence me or my loved ones in ways I feel morally against. If I could decide if my future children could be heterosexual, bisexual, gay etc., what would I choose? Do I really not care "as long as they are happy?" Won't being heterosexual make their lives reasonably easier to live. Is the possibility of having grandchildren and continuing the family blood line important to you?

5) Do you gain pleasure from observing attractive people in every day situations, like at work or on the street? Do you feel angry when you see other people doing this involving a person you like? How about if people feel this way about your brother, your sister, your mother? Is it really acceptable to fantasise sexually about some stranger on the street when the thought of a stranger doing the same to your sibling would infuriate you? Should I be watching and sexually gratifying myself with porn when the thought of my sister being in one would make me go insane?

Well these are some of the questions and themes I ponder about from time to time. I see a lot of them as inconvenient truths from within. So, what do the people of ATS think about the views I just presented?

[edit on 25/3/2009 by Dark Ghost]




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:42 AM
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very nice. those are really good questions to think about. i think it has more to do with the way we are brought up this day and age. people are dependent on some of thease things while some are never even exposed to such luxuries

good thoughts



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:52 AM
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I dunno man, basically all I want is to be left alone, for the most part.

Fortunately, my experience has been that the world seems to be pretty accomodating in terms of granting this wish.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


1. I don't understand the whole 'ethical treatment' of animals thing, particularly those that demonstrate little emotion. A line has to be drawn somewhere for food, I choose to draw it at the level of emotion that my dog shows but feel free to be a vegetarian if it makes you feel better.

2. Chris Rock said it best (I'm paraphrasing) "People in third world countries have to walk miles for water everyday. Americans won't even drink the water that comes out of their tap, they want bottled water. People hate America because they have water they only use to wash their ass! They wont even drink it! Americans have ass water and I'm walking miles for mud water to drink?"

3. While I value my interactions with other cultures, I find that I identify with certain people whose values are close to mine and I choose to spend the majority of my time with them. I'm not offended when people spend time with those most like themselves.

4. Yes, do as you please behind closed doors, who am I to stop you?

5. Whether I like to or not, my most base reaction when i meet a woman is usually, "Would I sleep with her?" When I meet a man I tend to think, "Could I kick his ass?" These are just normal reactions to seeing where we stand in the 'pack', nothing to be upset about.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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Hey,

The decision to "become a vegetarian or not" doesn't have to be so black and white.
My diet is about 85-90 per cent vegan. I still eat animal products about once a week. For example, I just ate 5 chicken burgers.

It's not an either/or decsion, that's binary thinking. If more of us made an effort to reduce meat consumption, then a lot of water and grain could be saved. Check the statistics.
Just do your best- My rule is, when in doubt, eat vegetables, but when I get uncontrollable cravings I give in.
My meat consumption is way way less than the national average, and when I eat it I try and be thankful for it. Because of the low impact of vegetarian diets, eating a vegetarian meal is an easy and profound act of charity.
If you don't care too much about animals, think about the effect on 3rd world nations.

PROTIP: Avocados and seeds are great for meat cravings.
David Wolfe, Matt Monarch, Shazzie and Gabrial Cousens are great nutritionists and have some awesome superfood advice.

Peace



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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2. Chris Rock said it best (I'm paraphrasing) "People in third world countries have to walk miles for water everyday. Americans won't even drink the water that comes out of their tap, they want bottled water. People hate America because they have water they only use to wash their ass! They wont even drink it! Americans have ass water and I'm walking miles for mud water to drink?"


ROFL that is some pretty fun stuff right there.

I get told often that I over analyse stuff; was talking to some guy today who told me he is an atheist. I asked him some big questions and he basically said "No I don't. And I don't care what the answers are either."



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


All those questions are things I have pondered from time to time.

Here is what I thought of upon reading them. Outa sight, outa mind.

People are generally not exposed to your own explanations.

1) I once went with some friends to have a dead pig processed into sausage and such. They parked in the back of the processing plant. They went inside with the pig, while I remained in the car. There was a ramp in the back of the plant that animals were being corralled onto. Once inside the door, they were shot in the head with a metal rod to kill them. What I witnessed put me off of meat. The animals on the ramp, which was enclosed, must have either smelled blood, or the fear of the animals that had gone through the door, because they were all very frightened and trying to escape. I was already a vegetarian, so this only confirmed my beliefs in being one.

2) 3rd world countries are definately a consideration, but many US citizens live without, and are at, or well within the poverty level. Everyone should have to volunteer at a food bank, seeing the inferior products that some people here need to survive on. Working at a soup kitchen during a holiday season will also open they eyes of some people. Put aside $10.00 a month for a year, and use the money to purchase jackets or blankets to hand out to people on the street, instead of spending your money on something you can use but don't really need!

3) It sounds like you are not interested in finding out how "different" people are actually a lot like you. My best friend is from India. I feel blessed to have learned about her culture. I had a long time boyfriend who was 1st generation born in America with parents who were from China. He was descended from a line of emporers, and the stories they shared with me were fascinating. I would rather meet a new person who is not like me and everyone else! Learning about different cultures makes you realize just how small the world really is.

4) I believe it is a right of everyone to find love, anyway they are capable of. Just because love found by 2 men, or 2 woman does not apeal to some, I believe finding it, when it is real, is an entitlement to everyone. Nobody should ever feel like they have to be alone, simply because they are born different from what other people consider to be normal. Carrying on the family lineage is not that important when you think about one of your children being happy with their own lives.

5) Everyone looks at attractive people! Anyone who says they don't is lying!



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 

Congratulations on some good, deep, honest thinking.

What you are really saying is that you, like every other human being, have a dark side to your nature.

Another name for this dark side might be the 'selfish side'. We humans have to balance two agendas. As animals, we are constantly trying to maximize our own pleasure, security and comfort. As social animals, we have to balance our own desires with the needs and desires of other group members. If we don't, we'll be punished, ostracized or, in some cases, even put to death.

To social animals, the needs of fellow group members constitute a second agenda. It is in the area of conflict between the two agendas that morality operates.

So now you know you have these aspects to you, what will you do about it? You're too honest to pretend they're not there. Are you going to make the mistake of imagining they are your 'true' self? They are not; they are only a part of yourself, and they are balanced by your humanism, your sense of egalitarianism, your concern for other animals, for poor people in distant countries, and so on. Recognize this double truth, take responsibility for your own conduct, and you will never go wrong.

You are a very lucky person, one who knows and accepts the existence of a worse self as well as a better one. Few people have the courage or the clarity of vision to do this. Go forth with confidence and love the world as it deserves: it has no secrets from the likes of you; indeed, it will happily yield up its treasures.

[edit on 26/3/09 by Astyanax]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 02:59 AM
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great thread.. i know a lot of people that do the outta sight outta mind, thing. but tend to sit back every so often and reflect on these questions and see how our conscience reacts and use each other as sounding boards . but as far as being a vegan.. i have to agree with carlos mancia.
plants and trees use co2 and create oxegen. cows and other animals create methane, i eat the problem and vegans eat the solution.. lol.. sorry but it does seem to make sense



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax
You are a very lucky person, one who knows and accepts the existence of a worse self as well as a better one. Few people have the courage or the clarity of vision to do this. Go forth with confidence and love the world as it deserves: it has no secrets from the likes of you; indeed, it will happily yield up its treasures.


Thanks for some very motivational and good advice. Unfortunately I do not consider myself that lucky and feel there are many secrets in this world I strive to understand but probably never will.

To all other replies: thanks. I really wasnt sure how this would be received as it is pretty random and kinda bunched together. Good to see there are actually people who think along the way I do, and that it is somewhat normal.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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Congrats!

You're human



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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I am a vegetarian. The next step would be veganism, but like you I'm just too fond of the taste of animal products. Ice cream, yogurt, cheese, butter, eggs--all gone? That would be unpleasant. Maybe I'll make the shift some day; they do seem to improve vegan substitutes more and more each year.

As for caring about citizens of developing nations, I am a walking contradiction. I engage in aid work in developing regions for around six months of each year, working with the poorest of the poor. I return home to luxury and cannot seem to muster the initiative to really forgo all of these material possessions. Most of my clothing items, for instance, cost more individually than the annual earnings of the people I work with abroad. I am disgusted by that, and yet the attachment I have to material things is just insatiable. That is one of my "dark truths"; it's awful, I know. I have two "sets" of friends--fellow aid workers and those whose contributions are comprised of a periodic check to their favorite charities, if that. The former find it absolutely atrocious that I purchase the things that I do, and the latter can't understand my feelings of guilt about those purchases. It's an odd place to be--conflicted within and surrounded on all sides by conflicting opinions.

[edit on 27/3/09 by paperplanes]



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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I'm a super empathic sensitive individual, but I -made- myself view some animal cruelty videos on my computer, stuff the meat corporations do to their farm animals and birds, and stuff China was doing to those we regard as family members, for their fur. Now I'll NEVER forget what I saw and learned, but I have all out QUIT meat for good. And don't miss it, at all. Now my conscious doesn't bother me, like it used to. Just "do the right thing".



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


wow man i liked that
you gotta post some more truths



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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I like this post, but that's nothing.

Try going where Friedrich Nietzsche went. It gets way darker.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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1) Are you a vegetarian? I am not and don't desire to be, but I often wonder whether I should be. Whether it's just thinking about the whole process of how meat is gathered, processed and distributed - it somehow feels wrong. It does not help when you are driving on the free way and you see a massive truck drive past crammed full of cows and other uncomfortable-looking animals that are heading towards their destiny: getting killed and being consumed. We know for a fact that a great deal of suffering and murder goes on to satisfy our appetites but do we want to face the facts and fix the situation? Doubt it. I know I don't. I'd rather just eat my whopper and enjoy the delicious taste.
No, but I want to be, my family doesn't want to give up meat, but I do, and cannot afford for two seperate diets. However I don't think this will change the world, unless a large vegan movement takes place the slaughter will continue.


2) Do you care about the welfare of people from "third world countries"? I would like to think I do; I try to donate money to charities and organisations in need when it is possible. So why have I bought an iPod, new jeans and loads of junk food in the last year? I am certain I can survive easily without these things, but I still "want" them. Should I be getting and enjoying these luxuries while billions of people cannot drink the water I use to bathe with, cannot enjoy the shelter of the house I use to sleep and relax in, or cannot eat the food scraps I throw out after dinner?
I don't and here's why, the natural order of existence is and always has been survival of the fittest. Do I think you should splurge either, no. I think that we should only take what we need to exist. And maybe some minimal things for entertainment purposes, why not? There are also people starving here in America, I know; I was there and survived by the land and water surrounding me, had no heat, and no electricity before; And I survived; why? Because I am a strong person. That's the way it should be. It's how nature keeps a balance.

3) Do you want multiculturalism to flourish? I don't think I do. Multiculturalism sounds great in terms of meeting people who are different to you, but do I really want people with different skin colours, strange accents, distinct facial features appearing more and more in my life? Is my life made more pleasant when people who are similar to me in culture, appearance and dialogue are the majority in my lives? I don't consider myself a racist, I am just trying to find the truth within.
I beleive it strengthens our bond to humanity, but some take it too far; like having too many children and trying to out number others to gain majority.

4) Do you really believe in everybody's right to choose or express their sexual preference? I'm one of those that doesn't mind as long as people do not try to influence me or my loved ones in ways I feel morally against. If I could decide if my future children could be heterosexual, bisexual, gay etc., what would I choose? Do I really not care "as long as they are happy?" Won't being heterosexual make their lives reasonably easier to live. Is the possibility of having grandchildren and continuing the family blood line important to you?
I beleive freedom of choice, but I certainly don't want to be seeing it in front of me, only because I really don't want to know what goes on in anybody else's bedroom either way!
and last question on next post.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
5) Do you gain pleasure from observing attractive people in every day situations, like at work or on the street? Do you feel angry when you see other people doing this involving a person you like? How about if people feel this way about your brother, your sister, your mother? Is it really acceptable to fantasise sexually about some stranger on the street when the thought of a stranger doing the same to your sibling would infuriate you? Should I be watching and sexually gratifying myself with porn when the thought of my sister being in one would make me go insane?

[edit on 25/3/2009 by Dark Ghost]

No I don't gain pleasure in this. If I find them attractive I want to know the person, maybe start a convo, maybe fantasize after I know who they are and what they're about, and maybe even date eventually. But I have to know them on a deeper level for anything to even enter my mind like that.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by Dark Ghost
 

3rd world countries are definately a consideration, but many US citizens live without, and are at, or well within the poverty level. Everyone should have to volunteer at a food bank, seeing the inferior products that some people here need to survive on. Working at a soup kitchen during a holiday season will also open they eyes of some people. Put aside $10.00 a month for a year, and use the money to purchase jackets or blankets to hand out to people on the street, instead of spending your money on something you can use but don't really need!

I was in the below poverty level and survived without soup kitchens and hand outs. People are becoming too dependant on certain things; luxury is one thing, state's help and other humans is another. This is why we're in the state that we're in.




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