Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

reply to post by gerktron01


The IR of a complex mixture of hydrocarbons would show just that; a complex mixture most of which is fuel. A better protocol would GC/MS for the organics and ICP for the metals. Likely you would find fuel additives and what was in the bottom of tanks and inside transfer lines.
The only way to do this is to sample a so-called chemtrail in the air and analyze it. Given the technical education level of the chemtrail believers, they wouldn't know what to make of the data until some ranter misunderstood it and posted a diatribe. Then they would dutifully repeat what they had read without any more thought.

Is he still working in aviation, maybe he would like to be a "whistle blower" Let us know whats up..

Assuming he did know anything, he'd definitely not want to talk about it.
Sorry.

You'd probably react much the same if your son kept going on about fairies living at the bottom of the garden!

Well strangely, he also got pretty jumpy whenever I mentioned the Leprechauns, so you might be on to something there.

+ + +

I'm going to leave you all to slug this one out. I can't be bothered to argue chemtrails any more than I have the energy to argue with 9/11 liars or Flat Earthers. I know what I saw when I looked up in the sky every day for ten years. Artificial sodding clouds. BTW I've been living in China for the past year and there's NO chem trails here. Anyone care to explain that? "It's too polluted" doesn't work. I lived in two relatively pollution free cities.

+ + +

I'm wondering why certain people are arguing so vehemently against chemtrails. It definitely raises red flags for me when someone is prepared to spend so much time debunking something, to the point of providing tables of data it obviously takes ages to find. I recommend clicking on people's profiles and seeing what they think about the other major events of our era. Of course I'm not accusing them of being disinfo agents. I'm just saying, I wonder what their motives are.


[edit on 13f20094amThu, 26 Mar 2009 11:57:41 -050041 by HiAliens]

I have a question.

How would you define an aerosol particulate? Would that be a chemical in a miniature form?

If you would take a look at this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Titled Aircraft contrails contributing to global warming.

Now within the OP of this rather short thread is an article from National Geographic. Here is an excerpt that got me thinking after reading about the need to create new biofuels.

Aircraft are believed to be responsible for 2 to 3 percent of human CO2 emissions. Like other high, thin clouds, contrails reflect sunlight back into space and cool the planet.

However, they also trap energy in Earth's atmosphere and boost the warming effect, the study says

Contrails are artificial clouds that form around the tiny aerosol particles in airplane exhaust.

And this is why I am asking for the definition posed in my last post. What are the tiny aerosol particles from?

They appear only in moist, very cold (less than 40ºF/4ºC) air—usually at altitudes of 5 miles (8 kilometers) or higher.

Some contrails can last for a day or longer, though they gradually disperse and begin to resemble natural clouds.

"The jury is out on the impact of contrails," said Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Langley, Virginia.

So at the very least contrails themselves are causing problems, are where do these "particulates" end up after they are dispersed into the atmosphere? And couldn't that be construed as a chemtrail?

This makes a case for contrails being harmful, but it doesn't fully grasp the entire problem, I have personally witnessed the grid making by the same planes going back and forth in one area a few years ago and then leaving a what is referred to around here as a "sundog" and it was a very warm humid summer day in Missouri. The research above says cold is a factor and the planes were not high enough in the sky to be as cold as the criteria requires for the contrail.

So my point is that yes, contrails themselves are a problem of major proportions and even though this is a piece of the puzzle i still think there are other factors involved.

Here is the link from the Nat'l Geo article.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

reply to post by interestedalways


Every engine releases particulates fancy name for emissions. You car produces emissions as well but to say that its a secret organization or government plot is silly. Until we get away from burning fossil fuels there will all ways be an impact on the environment just how much of one is the question.

This makes a case for contrails being harmful, but it doesn't fully grasp the entire problem, I have personally witnessed the grid making by the same planes going back and forth in one area a few years ago and then leaving a what is referred to around here as a "sundog" and it was a very warm humid summer day in Missouri. The research above says cold is a factor and the planes were not high enough in the sky to be as cold as the criteria requires for the contrail.

So where this this chemtrail belief original from that if some planes are going north/south, and some are going east/west, that it somehow means a grid and spraying?

And any chemtrail believer tell us where any kind of proven spraying is done in grids? Cropdusters certainly do not spray in grids.

Are you saying it was warm at 30-40 000 ft? How warm do you think it was?

Obviouisly if you had sundogs up there, then it was favorable for contrail formation. I think I just need to go run into a wall a few times headfirst, I think I would have more progress at times.

You can look at a lot of the air traffic around your area here. Click on the diagram near the top.
flightaware.com...


[edit on 26-3-2009 by firepilot]

reply to post by C0bzz


How many airline pilots are ex mil school boy ? If they are ex mil there is no exit from official secrets .They are bound for life .

Nice try but as usual the armchair experts are blowing smoke to crawl up the ladder .

I dont need to keep a log (ho hum) . you guys and your 'by the book' professional banter !

And as for that wetdreamliner , its just a desperate attempt to make up lost ground to the new airbus , the CIA having failed to sabotage it like they did concorde .

Carbon is notoriously brittle and has poor shock absorption . Rolls Royce went bust trying to make carbon turbine blades work.

The real future is titanium alloys ,which america does not have any hard cash left to purchase on the open market . The Russians on the other hand have #loads of the stuff...

American aerospace is going down the toilet due to arrrogance ,greed ,incompetance and a chronic lack of homegrown talent .
half the reason for overreaching in Iraq was to save the defense industry from its own incompetence .

most all of their aerospace tech is stolen form russia and europe because they can never figure the hard stuff out for themselves .

The vaunted raptor is in fact over twenty years old , the design again a rip off from a foriegn power . Its been a disasterous failure in operations ,which is why 'officially' its still in the testing phase .

And it all boils back down to the US oil dollar . Holding back cleaner alternatives so that they can live in the past and blow smoke all over the planet . What is it with american generals and their 'big cigars' anyway ?

Well now the almighty dollars spell is broken ,we can all look forward at least to embracing the alternatives that the the US corporate machine has been stomping on for SO DAMN LONG .



[edit on 26-3-2009 by reconpilot]

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by interestedalways

 

Every engine releases particulates fancy name for emissions. You car produces emissions as well but to say that its a secret organization or government plot is silly. Until we get away from burning fossil fuels there will all ways be an impact on the environment just how much of one is the question.

Please don't dirty my post by adding things. No where in my post did you see those words, "secret organization or government plot".

I am trying to be open to all angles of this problem. And it is a problem, is it not?

Originally posted by firepilot


So where this this chemtrail belief original from that if some planes are going north/south, and some are going east/west, that it somehow means a grid and spraying?

Could you please reword this sentence for clarity that I may be able to address it?

Are you saying it was warm at 30-40 000 ft? How warm do you think it was?

I have no idea what the temp was at that height, and the planes were not extremely high as I could see them very clearly, it appeared to be two planes and they had no markings visible to me. It was over 90 degrees and very humid that day on the ground.

Obviouisly if you had sundogs up there, then it was favorable for contrail formation. I think I just need to go run into a wall a few times headfirst, I think I would have more progress at times.

The reflection was not a sundog, it was a direct result of the trails, was actually reflecting from within the trail spread.

I wouldn't advise your running into walls headfirst, you could knock yourself out or even impair your judgement.

Originally posted by interestedalways
I have personally witnessed the grid making by the same planes going back and forth in one area a few years ago and then leaving a what is referred to around here as a "sundog" and it was a very warm humid summer day in Missouri.

I am not picking on you per say, but I have heard this too many times to ignore it anyomre. It is not the same planes going back a forth. It is always different planes. Does anyone here know how much it costs to fly a jumbo jet around?

Nevermind, you know what, Chemtrails are real. They are sprayed by the government to kill everyone who ingests them. Death will not be immediate, it may take up to 85 years. And the government is doing most of this to increase the health problems of most Americans just before they try to nationalze health care to insure a costly future for the American taxpayer. BTW, by government, I of course mean NWO/Illuminate.

again, this rant was not directed at you but to the whole "I'd rather type than think" group.

Originally posted by reconpilot
reply to post by C0bzz

 

How many airline pilots are ex mil school boy ? If they are ex mil there is no exit from official secrets .They are bound for life .

Nice try but as usual the armchair experts are blowing smoke to crawl up the ladder .

I dont need to keep a log (ho hum) . you guys and your 'by the book' professional banter !

And as for that wetdreamliner , its just a desperate attempt to make up lost ground to the new airbus , the CIA having failed to sabotage it like they did concorde .

Carbon is notoriously brittle and has poor shock absorption . Rolls Royce went bust trying to make carbon turbine blades work.

The real future is titanium alloys ,which america does not have any hard cash left to purchase on the open market . The Russians on the other hand have #loads of the stuff...

American aerospace is going down the toilet due to arrrogance ,greed ,incompetance and a chronic lack of homegrown talent .
half the reason for overreaching in Iraq was to save the defense industry from its own incompetence .

most all off their aerospace tech is stolen form russia and europe because they can never figure the hard stuff out for themselves .

The vaunted raptor is in fact over twenty years old , the design again a rip off from a foriegn power . Its been a disasterous failure in operations ,which is why 'officially' its still in the testing phase .

There is so much falsehood in your posting, where does one start.

1. Most airline pilots are NOT ex-mil anymore.
2. 787 does not compete with A380, two different kinds of planes. A380 was more out of pride and arrogance, and it has plenty of problems. CIA sabotaging Concorde? Oh god...
3. Aerospace Tech stolen from Russia and Europe? Oh BS.. US, Europe and Russia have all had their own technical innovations.
4. Raptor is not 20 years old, it is not a "disaster", and you seem to miss that it has been operational years now.

None of these have anything to do with chemtrails and evidence of. Again another example of chemtrail believers just throwing up as many of unrelated (and incorrect) things against the wall hoping something sticks.

But then you told us about anti gravity powered F-111s and "Auroras" in storage at AMARC that you can see on google earth.

Originally posted by HiAliens
My Dad was fairly high up in civil aviation and he would get very twitchy whenever I mentioned chemtrails to him. I used to bring it up from time to time, and tell him there was a massive difference in contrails starting about 1997. He would flatly deny it and even get irritable, which I thought was pretty strange considering he loved to talk about other aspects of the industry. Maybe he knew something was up.
He used to dislike the highest manager types, thought they were corrupt. And I remember once he made an offhand comment about some of them being involved with Mi5, but never mentioned it again.

Just one of those random, proofless stories.

Well said .

When our Recon unit was formed just before ww2 , we used a civvy lockheed electra for all our illicit photo recon work. MI6 paid for the aircraft and we flew out of Hendon (and off the record ,Croydon too) Our Wing commanders cover was as so often is the case , 'businessman' .

So if truth be told the defining lines between mil and civ HAS ALWAYS BEEN GREY .

Once things got hotter , we aquired spitfires and 'cottons club' became the first high altitude recon unit . We got put in uniform but never took RAF protocol to seriously. We were to busy being competent to waste time with that BS.

So anyone who says there is no crossover between mil and civ is talking out of their proverbial.

The topic of this thread is;

Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

let me say that again

the topic of this thread is

Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

Why then, am I reading posts about 'raptors, nighthawks, ex airline pilots and aarvarks, ex military pilots and god knows what else?

TOPIC PLEASE. If you want to start a discussion about something else plane wise, start a new thread in the aviation forum. THIS forum is about Conspiracies, and this thread is about chemtrails.

Why do I have to keep on explaining this?

Thats fine, point taken. Chemtrail believers bring up so much patently false information about aviation and aircraft, I cant help myself and I get suckered into pointing out it.

So chemtrail believers, where is actual evidence of tainted fuel. Not your speculation, but evidence.



[edit on 26-3-2009 by firepilot]

Guys does this mean its time for a new thread so we can rehash all this again?
If so please forward me the URL as I am going back to sleep...

Originally posted by interestedalways

I am trying to be open to all angles of this problem. And it is a problem, is it not?

Yes, it's a problem. Though not the one chemtrailers would have us believe. And as I have shown earlier in this thread, one of the causes of the problem is new jet engines which are designed to reduce carbon emissions - but as a result are more inclined to produce bigger contrails. And many atmospheric scientists believe that contrails are a bigger contributor to GW than any CO2 emitted by aircraft engines.

IMO that is the real story and the real problem. But it seems to be ignored.

Not sexy enough?

My conclusion: chemtrails are not caused by anything in the jetfuel, but the phenomena may be partly caused by the engines.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Essan]

Originally posted by reconpilot
When our Recon unit was formed just before ww2 , we used a civvy lockheed electra for all our illicit photo recon work. MI6 paid for the aircraft and we flew out of Hendon (and off the record ,Croydon too) Our Wing commanders cover was as so often is the case , 'businessman' .

I know this it totally OT and I apologise, but I can't let this go.

The Lockheed Electra first flew in 1957.

en.wikipedia.org...

OK. I asked folks to stick to the topic. Its not happening.

Thread closed.