Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

reply to post by emeraldzeus


emerald....you live on the surface, am I correct"""

What I mean is, you have no idea of the Upper Atmosphere.


So, JUST because it is 'dry' to you, on a particular day....it does not translate to other levels of the Earth's atmosphere.

It just does NOT work that way....

BUT, it seems that this mindset 'promotes' this notion....and it is very sad, that this ignorance of science leads to this result....

Sorry, but you have not convinced me yet....

Nothing will ever convince you. Not the milllions of photos of aircraft with none spray gear equipped, not the many many photos of skies full of contrails going back decades, not meterologists who try to explain weather, not pilots who try to explain aviation, not aeronautical engineers, not airport workers, etc.

But why was it so easy to convince you of some massive spraying conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands of people and hundreds of airplanes, without any evidence other than people on conspiracy websites who know NOTHING about aviation or weather?

You seem to have a bit different standard of proof. You will believer in chemtrails no matter what, because it is like a faith or religion to some people.

reply to post by firepilot


OOPS....

Firepilot....I tried to respond to a detractor....it got posted as IF I was posting to you......please disregard.......

THANKS!!!

[edit on 3/25/0909 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by emeraldzeus

First of all, I live in a region with EXTREMELY low relative humidity, where the only clouds in the sky at times are the ones created by the planes.

Here in the UK there are many times when the ony clouds in the sky are those created by planes. Temp and humidity at ground level does not necessarily have a bearing on temp and humidity at 30,000ft.

However, not knowing where you live means I can't say any more.

Only 2-4 inches of rain a year....so the rain theory is debunked as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know what you mean by a rain theory. The one thing we can be sure of is that contrails/chemtrails have no bearing on rainfall, other than that they may be more prevalent ahead of a weather front (though this may not actually produce any rain)

Chemtrails seem to have a preference for the daylight, although I have seen them at night a few times.

Depending on where you live, there may well be more frequent air traffic by day than night. Most theories about chemtrails would suggest they ought to be as prevalent if not more so at night - why spray people only when they can see you?

9-5 chemtrails? Funny how that correlates to normal working hours!

Do you think more people fly during the day or night?

I also live in a region with extreme winters and extreme summers.....temperature plays absolutely no part from my perspective, unless you were to provide me proof of weather reports with cold/hot air fronts in correlation to these "wingtip" clouds.

Well we don't know were you live

In which case, the entire world would be subject to this same phenomenon.....oddly, China does not experience these, only NATO countries.

They're seen all over the world. But Europe and N America have a lot more air traffic than other places.

none of you have given me ANY proof that what I have witnessed and observed for years in ALL parts of the country are the same thing as a contrail.

You've not provided any evidence - let alone proof - that what you have witnessed and observed for years are not contrails

Contrails disappear...chemtrails do not.

Contrails may last for hours. That's been well known for decades and extensively studied since at least the 60s.

Contrails follow normal flight paths....chemtrails end up all over the freakin' place in checkerboard fashion.

Normal flightpaths go all over the place and must, perforce, produce a checkerboard pattern (the only alternative being that all aircraft fly only between 2 places). See for example the UK:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
At face value, it appears to protect, but that is the objective....you have to READ word for word.

By the way, "informed consent" primarily concerns military personnel.

SEC. 1078. RESTRICTIONS ON THE USE OF HUMAN SUBJECTS FOR
TESTING OF CHEMICAL OR BIOLOGICAL AGENTS is not very long, I did read it but I can't find anything about allowing anything remotely resembling testing via widespread dispersal (ala "chemtrails). Can you point me to where that is stated (or implied)?

What is your point in talking about military informed consent? I realize that this is the appropriations bill but supposedly everyone is being "sprayed"? This law requires informed consent by everyone.

[edit on 3/25/2009 by Phage]

Actually it is a bit funny, but yet still sad though, at how chemtrail believers will notice the increased contrails and cirrus resulting from weather systems getting closer, and then attribute the weather change to airplanes. Its almost like they were so close, noticing the increasing cirrus preceding the precipiation.

Even Boy Scouts who are children have noticed that, and Sailors have seen it for centuries, that correlation about halos around the moon before more weather comes in.

And another even more staggeringly ignorance example of chemmies saying "Oh well I live in the desert, its hot and dry here, so its impossible for their to be contrails".

Well first of all the arctic is much drier than most deserts, and you can get artificial ice crystals at the ground there from exhausts. And also, the air at sea level can hold much more moisture than air that is up high. Jet engines add water to the air by their exhaust.

If ice crystals from water being added are not able to persist, then what is that white stuff at ski resorts behind snowmakers? It sure seems to last more than a few seconds, unless a chemtrail believer is willing to tell us those are just big barium and SARS and virus machines masquerading as snow makers




[edit on 25-3-2009 by firepilot]

I see all these people that work at airports on her saying that they know because they fuel passenger and cargo planes but i doubt that that planes spraying chemtrails are civilian. I bet they are military planes that do that

reply to post by elfulanozutan0


What about the chemtrail believers who say it is FedEx, Southwest Airlines, United Airlines, etc that are spraying? Or that say it is Reptilians flying silver orbs, single engine cessnas, or Gulfstream business jets?

I do not know how strong memory each and every member herein has neither am i in position to know how observant everybody is.

What i know is that i have been seing contrails as young as 8yrs old.
It was always considered as normal physics created by specific conditions when the engines tear through the sky which has very low temperature...

This was never a subject of conspiracy discussion until some paranoid mind made up the issue.

If there is a conspiracy case at all it has been going on for decades.
Don't worry people! If they want you to be contaminated by something THEY have a million more effective ways to do so.

My dollar and a half....

GTG

reply to post by doctordoom




Well I must say there DoctorDoom that this thread has produced a lot of great info that I haven't seen yet.

One of the best is the fact that refinery workers have been quite ill and that just shows that those pumping fuel will probably be next but we will never know that because most of them are being hushed up which is pretty obvious here in this thread..

I think from your OP and the data provided anyone reading this can safely say that there is something going on within the airport community that the general population doesn't seem to know about. For anyone to work there and really think they would know something if it was happening is quite the laugh I must admit.

Like I've mentioned in other threads on this topic, there are various levels of clearances in the military and the civilian sector. They are actually governed by the same directives. When a person is given a clearance to know something they sign a document of agreement. This type of agreement will be signed for each clearance the person is given. I had three levels above TS as well as other clearances.. There were some clearances that I had that I couldn't tell anyone I had. The fact that I had this clearance was classified.

I worked with about 30 people in the same room that all had the same level of clearance. There were a select group within the 30 that had other clearances that prevented certain things from happening when those uncleared were around. This is called compartmentalization and is extremely prominent within the military community. Any civilian company that wishes to work with the military would have to have its employees security checked and then their company would be checked also for the ability to securely hold onto any documents that were classified. This would mean proper safes be in place etc. A proper safe for TS material would be a combination safe that is a least four inches thick walls and an approved pickproof type dial etc. Sargent and Greenleaf is a good example of what is accepted for TS material.

There are numerous companies that have gained military ties because the military uses this as an excuse. They use the reasoning that their military professionals don't have the expertise to perform the duties, therefore they out source job and with that also require the job performers to sign security agreements. I really can't believe that anyone would think that this can't happen. National security can prevent anything from happening... It prevents things from being mentioned in the papers because of its security implications to the nation.

As to the planes being fueled by tanks from underground and that being some type of reasoning to say it can't happen.... I've been to a couple of airports lately and they still use the trucks that I've seen... So to say that it can't happen is ridiculous... I guess I'm imagining those trucks that have no connection to a pipe in the ground and are just pumping air..

Do a search for 'airport fuel truck' in images to see some pics of airport fuel trucks that seem to carry their fuel.

Does the fact that maybe an airport is getting its fuel from an underground tank make it so that some type of chemical can't be placed into it? NO! There is someone within the airport hierarchy that has access to this fuel and is doing something to it. You have no need to know... get a clearance that covers this type of thing and you will know...

To think that your government wouldn't spray you with chemicals unless you gave them your consent is the most laughable thing I've heard. To think that some would believe their government is not doing ANYTHING illegal because there is a 'clause' that prevents them from doing this is a shame also. They use us as guinea pigs and test all sorts of things, in the military as well as on the civilian sector. This isn't speculation, it's proven fact that has been shown time after time in these chemtrail threads.

I thank your for your research and for spreading the truth about the spreading chemtrails.

Rgds




[edit on 25-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

[edit on 25-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


Excuse me, maybe I missed something here, or maybe my computer has a filter or something, but could you please show me anywhere in the last 8 pages of any sort of "truth" about chemtrails, and any actual proof/evidence/ANYTHING that could give chemtrails a chance? Cause after reading the last 8 pages, I am more and more convinced chemtrails are nothing more than lies perpetrated by either uneducated yahoos, or actual intellegent people that are feeding off of gullible and naive folks, suckering them into being afraid of everything and, in effect, dumbing down the audience, while they laugh and laugh at how easy it is manipulate people.

And I am STILL awaiting anyone on the chemtrail side to answer the most basic questions on contrails and "chemtrails" and why can't contrails last longer than a few hours. Someone, anyone. Please for the love of God, Buddah, Allah, Moses, Flying Spagetti Monster, can someone show me the scientific explaination of why contrails cannot last longer than for a few minutes, and why "chemtrails" are the ONLY ones that can. I am dead serious folks. Lets have it. If someone out there that is so sucker... I mean, convinced that contrails cannot last longer than a few minutes, please explain it to us all scientifically using meteorology, aerodynamic sciences, chemistry, physics, and any other scientific process. Remember, neatness counts!

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


My problem with these threads is that I can see a lot of credible common sense being argued on both sides .

The boundary between civvy and military has always been a huge grey area . Personally I see it this way .

Every contrail leaves some residue from the combustion process and affects the atmosphere BUT THAT DOES NOT make it a chemtrail in the overt sense of the word.

BUT no one can really argue either that the chemical composition or use of addditives does not have the potential to enhace or alter the persistence of the contrail.

So who is right and who is wrong ?

I just look at the use of jet a and avgas as primitive and outdated .

And while we go round in circles with these fruitless arguments no one asks why we are not using Hyrdogen as a fuel instead .

Every contrail leaves some residue from the combustion process and affects the atmosphere BUT THAT DOES NOT make it a chemtrail in the overt sense of the word. BUT no one can really argue either that the chemical composition or use of addditives does not have the potential to enhace or alter the persistence of the contrail.

But thats redefining "chemtrails" to now include normal pollutants, and you know thats not what chemtrails is about.

Its about a whole plethora of contradicts theories as to why some contrails last longer than others. While normal people see contrails and think nothing of it, chemtrail believers see contrails and think the USAF, USN, RAF, Airliners, corporate jets, TPTB, UN, NWO, Bilderbergers, UFOs, Shape Shifting Reptilians, flight schools, are somehow spraying metals, goos, poisons, AIDS, SARS and other viruses, from hundreds and thousands of airplanes that no one has seem to ever been able to photograph.

Well, why do some of you chemtrail believers not ever picket an airport, or even get a job at an airport? Or take a flying lesson, or go look at flightaware, or go buy an high altitude airway chart.

I suppose we can just instead wait for the "magical sylphs" talked about on some chemtrail pages to come eat up all the chemtrails. Maybe then some chemtrail believers can take off the aluminum foil beanies and leave their bedroom blanket forts.

reply to post by GenRadek


I guess that means your computer has a filter and is not getting all the information that has been provided in this thread.. I for one see that the evidence has been provided. I can't lead you to your answers as they are something you have to find yourself. I'm sure that others that come to this thread can look at the OP and conclude that the sources provided are enough and that most of the remainder is there to aid in its assimilation into their minds. Maybe my ability to see this so clearly is because I have a vast amount of knowledge in various fields and this allows me to properly see the misinformation provided by the governments. 26yrs in the military will make you see things you don't want to see.... doesn't mean they are not there...

Rgds

I'm so tired of being sprayed with jet-fuel! It's making me go crazy!

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


And what credible information has been provided? NONE. Nothing has been provided to give me a second look to reconsider. Speculation, assumptions, "gut feelings", the "I know for a fact that is not normal" clause being passed off as evidence, is not credible evidence. No sir. and so far I am still awaiting for anyone to answer my simple question as to why contrails are not suppose to last longer than a few minutes. This should be the easiest to answer since this is the first thing to pop up as "proof". for chemtrails. I am not interested in hearesay, I am not interested in assumptions, not in speculations, not in imagination, I am interested in the facts, the science and actual numbers.

Every single arguement, piece of "evidence" or "proof", brought forward or made by your chemtrail believers has been dismanteled with facts and basic knowledge including personal actual experience by those knowledgeable in the field. Not a single one exists that stands alone that deserves more attention. And just saying that, "Oh but we don't know, they could be spraying us. After all, its the secret government and they can do anything," is not adding anything useful except filler. This is not proof of anything, except making a blanket arguement which sole intention is to cover all bases no matter how many times its been proven to be false, and ignoring all the hard factual data and information that PROVES how horribly incorrect the arguements and "evidence" is.

[edit on 3/25/2009 by GenRadek]

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by GenRadek

 

I for one see that the evidence has been provided. I can't lead you to your answers as they are something you have to find yourself.

I like this so much I think I am going to use it as my signature. Giving you full credit of course.
( Mr. Hand, Fast Times at Ridgemont High)

reply to post by Mason mike


I'd appreciate it if you kept my name from your signature block... thanks... having a mason using my quote wouldn't be pleasing to me in the slightest...

Rgds

reply to post by firepilot


I can see your point FP but you are still emotionaly tied to a paradigm that is fast approaching its end, the oil based global economy .

And While I agree that to many chemies are paranoid and go to far with their claims because they dont understand most of the time what they are seeing , the trouble is neither do a lot of the people in your business .

As far as the highly clasified crowd go ,your just another grunt , tied to the wheel by blind patriotism and misguided pride. And thats the way they like to keep you.

As long as humans persist in using technology unwisely and in a manner that threatens the biosphere's very survival ,the one's who are trying to ameliorate your worst excesses will continue to be an embarrasement to your secretive govs, your lying politicians and your corrosive use of oil as an inferior fuel .

To many Genuine pilots have seen to many things that cannot be explained away by the 'official government line' but most civvy pilots are to motivated by the money and social prestige of having wings on their chest to put themselves on the block by saying to much . cant blame them really , but deep down ,many are as angry about the state of affairs as the chem crowd , only they at least have a better grasp of whats really going on .

Oh, and by the way ,dont knock shape shifting lizards until youve seen it happen your self ! Youd be amazed what holographic technology can hide.

Unless you really ENJOY beeing alone in the universe. If humans are as good as it gets ,there really is no god with a sense of humour .

You can always tell your in the company of humans . No sesne of humour , always need to be right , lie through their teeth to make a buck and STILL think they are the most advanced species on the planet.....

YOU WISH .

Well, i worked tonight and i asked a few pilots, and mechanics and they all say that any substance would be burned in the combustion chamber (as previously stated). and if there were metal chunks in the fuel, the blades in the turbine would be chewed up in a heart beat. in the opinion of the pilot, the whole chemtrail conspiracy is just made up by people who need something to worry about, and notice something for the first time and freaked out.

i also took a pic of the fuel panel i see on a SAAB 340 B+...

IN ADDITION! in the process of removing the single point i managed to get some fuel on my hand. nothing bad has happend.. wouldnt you think that it would be more concentrated in the liquid form? not sure please clarify

and when we sump the truck daily, if some particles were in the fuel, it would be visible.. kinda like a salad dressing.. (sad metaphor, i know)

but im rambling now so yea.. lets see whats next from the believers.. BRING IT ON!



[edit on 25-3-2009 by gerktron01]

[edit on 25-3-2009 by gerktron01]