Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

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posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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I first found out about the chem-trail issue more or less by accident maybe a few years ago when I was browsing around on YouTube -


This clip is similar to the one I originally saw a couple years ago. That first one was a documentary film about a woman on the west coast who began taking "particulate samples" about ten-years ago. I was not able to find her video anymore when I just checked this morning ...

Anyway, after first finding out about this controversy, as I say, I then started noticing these trails up in the sky while I was driving to work, for instance. And their frequency has definately increased dramatically during the last 18-months.

Based on information like that presented in the clip above, I just 'naturally assumed' there was some kind of chemicals in the fuel, or at least in the exhaust - hence, 'chemtrails.'

Then, only recently I had a dialog with an ATS member beginning here, and my viewpoint has been somewhat 'moderated.'

According to that member, who appears genuinely expert in meteorology, there doesn't need to be anything 'extra' in the exhaust for 'cloud seeding' to occur. According to him, if there's 'enough moisture' in the troposhpere ( read : 'supersaturated at high altitude' ), then the cirrostratus generating process is an entirely natural one which is 'triggered' by the ice crystals which occur naturally in an aircraft's exhaust plume.

From my work in engine fueling I know that one of the major natural componants of combustion engine exhaust is indeed H20 - water, which would definately form ice-crystals in the very low ambient temperature conditions at a jet's normal cruising altitude.

Finally, it was never really my view that there was an 'evil plot' underway to 'poison everybody' as is so often presented on the internet. In my opinion this is only hysterical fear mongering disinformation cleverly designed to 'deflect' mass-perception away from the 'real' reason ( again , IMHO
) - that there are some 'rather significant' changes to our sun occurring.

It is agreed by most that these high-altitude clouds ( cirrostratus ) significantly reduce the amount of solar radiation ( both heat and UV ) which can penetrate to the surface where we all live.




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Arent they using liquid coal now in the Air Force?



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by doctordoom
 


Ahh so you are afraid of fuel additives? Well then I recommend you stop driving your car immediately, stay off the roads, and wear a gasmask at all times. Why? have you ever read what they put in regular car fuel? Have you ever read the labels on fuel cleaners, fuel additives, etc that they put in cars only? here:

www.fuel-testers.com...

Just read through the list, and then check the toxicity of all of them! Like this one:

naphthalene.

read the health affects!
en.wikipedia.org...
www.oehha.ca.gov...

This stuff is coursing through hundreds of MILLIONS of car engines across this country and world! By God! We are all gonna die!

You see the histeria one can create when just doing some basic lookie loos of everyday objects and things?



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by ChemBreather
There is something called: secrecy, how you folks think you are 'included' in all of your companies deals and plans I cant comprehend at all.

Because there IS NO SECRECY AT AN AIRPORT between those who work there…

That airport is a big self-contained city where most everyone knows most everyone else and everyone else’s business. Rumors fly around an airport faster then the jets do.


My point of those links was to show the Reuters article were written in multiple medias, wich you aperantly desregarded, and that you say that an PILOT of an Airline company knows EVERYTHING the comapny does, you gotta be drunk or you lie or you just dont know what you are talking about.
# like that Po's me, becaus you do NOT know what the Head men of the company are doing, if they do 'under table' deals with some one to do an 'illigal' act, just to take an example, I refuse to belive YOU would know about it, and if you do, then your IN ON IT ....Simple.

What your newphew are 'told' is what and what not isnt my bissniss, I dont liy to my kids atleasst ....
seriously... I see this plane every day, they are nor Normal Contrails... Salute ......



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Alferd Packer
 

They are using synthetic fuel derived from coal via Fischer-Tropsch synthesis. They have qualified it as a 50-50 mix on several aircraft.
It is basically a paraffin oil and is much cleaner than petroleum based fuels.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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Just wanted to say ive been an aircraft mech for a bit over 10 years now and really never heard much about this stuff...however one post was quoting a mech of 30 years saying he'd never seen cloging like this ever. Ive seen lots and lots of crazy clogged fuel filters myself. I belive its getting progessivly worse, however i belive its the quality of filters being made and used now a days. Everything in aviation is expensive as hell for one, so manufacturing a cheaply built filter mainly made of a paper that is designed to be changed out every 100 to 300 hours of flight is going to clogg quicker and damage engines eiser. 10 years ago filter were hevier built and changed more frequnt....no operators( airtransport) are string out filter changes to the max allowable time permitted. Maybe im just rameling but i work in the industy and wanted to put my 2 cents in. Btw jet fuel JP4 AND JET A havent seemed to change at all as i recall all the test we do all have the same turn outs as they did 10 years ago...same color same temp and same specific gravity.....all ive seen a diff in is fuel additives.....bio -boar , prist stuff like that..
cause and effect
saints junky



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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I won't even finish reading these responses.

I know at least one on the front page, but anyone that knows anything about aircraft will bust this one. Compete BS.

Beyond the fact that the fuel nozzles don't just take anything you put into them, you have a burn factor problem.

With an inconsistant flame, you can have burn through on the cans, flame out and if it's not a perfect mix you can end up with the T-wheels getting thrown out of balance and come apart.

The fuel control alone, will not handle a miss balance of viscosity vs lubricity factors on the fuel.

I am an Sr Aerospace Engineer, some of my degree work was in Aircraft Propulsion Systems Engineering and I have over 27 years experience.
Currently on the Learjet 85. The engine guys busted out laughing when I brought this thread up.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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Government Cover-ups: Chemtrails


Some debunkers use cropped photos of high-G manuevers which gives off aerodynamic condensation from the wing--as a supposed explanation to wing emitted chemtrails. But this is bogus. Aerodynamic condensation doesn’t occur in straight and level flight and never leaves a long contrail. It also shows up within inches of the wing trailing edge, unlike chemtrail spraying.


im just waiting for one of the 'pilots' to de-bunk this now, Hmmm, just wonder what angle. And how come all other people in the world are wrong?? pilots in this thread know all and everything about every plane in the world..




All legitimate aircraft at high altitudes emitting contrails will be acknowledged by the FAA. Conversely, the existence of aircraft spraying chemicals is always denied by the FAA, under orders from the government. You can be on a cell phone, in real time, reporting the presence of an aircraft overhead to the FAA and they will tell you that no such aircraft exists on their radar screens. They are flat-out lying.


and, the governments Do lie, alot .....



Global warming is a fraud. There is no way the US government would engage in this massive a cover-up and risk illness to the US population over a theory with little basis in fact and even less evidence of actual damage. Besides, government sponsored aerosol spraying has been going on before global warming became an issue.


And this we know,, Gw is a fraud



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by ChemBreather


Some debunkers use cropped photos of high-G manuevers which gives off aerodynamic condensation from the wing--as a supposed explanation to wing emitted chemtrails. But this is bogus. Aerodynamic condensation doesn’t occur in straight and level flight and never leaves a long contrail. It also shows up within inches of the wing trailing edge, unlike chemtrail spraying.


im just waiting for one of the 'pilots' to de-bunk this now, Hmmm, just wonder what angle. And how come all other people in the world are wrong?? pilots in this thread know all and everything about every plane in the world..



Do these look like "high G maneuvers" to you? But yet there is wing condensation in straight and level flight.

cdn-www.airliners.net...
cdn-www.airliners.net...
2.bp.blogspot.com...
www.flyingwithoutfear.com...(2)-of-33624-719690.jpg
cdn-www.airliners.net...
www.wunderground.com...
cdn-www.airliners.net...

Condensation trails can come off the main wing, or the wingtip. I've seen wingtip condensation trails go for a pretty good distance behind the wing, and look like a thin contrail. They occur any time that there is enough moisture in the air. I've even seen a condensation trail come up from the ground into a fighter intake while they were running engines at idle.

www.fodnews.com...



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by doctordoom

high concentration of carbon? Before the fuel was burned.

Be concerned. Be very concerned.


The only thing I'm concerned about is someone who thinks it's odd that hydrocarbon fuel contains carbon.




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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The inside of the combustion chamber of a jet engine reaches temperatures up to 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit. If you can tell me what chemical compound can withstand those temperatures, as well as the massive internal operating pressures of a jet engine - then perhaps the chemtrail theory will hold some weight. And by "withstand the temperature" - I mean continue to hold enough ill-properties to be a severe heath risk....

FYI - Steel melts at 1700 degrees.

"But wait!" you say! "Not all the air exiting a jet engine is pushed through the combustion chamber!"

True - that air is mixed with the combustion air and only reaches about 2,500 degrees.

Given the information above, the theory of chemtrails just isn't plausible.





[edit on 25-3-2009 by shrike071]

[edit on 25-3-2009 by shrike071]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by ChemBreather
 


You have to understand a little something on aerodynamics and meteorology to understand those wingtip vortex condensations.

In a nutshell:
The wing tips produce a rapidly spinning vortex of air. Much like a mini tornado, this produces an area of lower pressure around the wingtip. This rapid lowering of air pressure in the rapidly spinning vortex causes any water moisture in the area to condense into a cloud. The same thing happens when a tornado touches down. The lower pressures cause the moist air wrapping around the vortex to condense, creating a cloud. Vapor pressure!

If someone knows such science basics, every single arguement made by the "pro-chemtrail" side can be taken apart with ease. Science is key! Multiple fields in science also help in these debates and arguements. I just used BASIC aircraft aerodynamics and meteorology to explain factually what causes wingtip condensation trails. There you go! Another non-mystery solved!


Fun fact: in order to cut down on the wingtip vorticies from affecting flight and the air behind, some aircraft manufacturers are adding special winglets to the wingtipsto decrease these things. Wingtip vortices contribute to wake turbulences which are dangerous to aircraft behind the larger aircraft.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.juliantrubin.com...
www.faatest.com...

[edit on 3/25/2009 by GenRadek]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by gerktron01
 


But that's the whole point of the conspiracy- it CANNOT involve simple people like you or I in the process, so that when someone makes a claim, people like you can easily debunk it because you "see with your own eyes". If the conspiracy involved someone like you, then how the heck can it be kept secret? It couldn't.

Question: Who owns the refineries where the airline companies buy the fuel? It is my guess that if sinister additives were being placed in the fuel, it would HAVE to be done at a level in which only a handful of people knew about, in a place that is highly secure. Refineries fit this scenario. What I find disturbing are the amount of "mysterious" and untimely deaths associated with refineries, many of which are still unsolved.

Unreported Deaths

If you like, here is a nice video on chemtrails:



I can say without a doubt that I witness completely different flight patterns from planes on days when these trails are present, than on days when none are present. In fact, just recently, I was shocked to wake up to massive checkerboards in the sky, being created by planes flying WAY OUT of normal commercial flight paths, and far above commercial altitudes. I have high-powered binoculars which I have used to look at them. They were even flying criss-cross patterns, sometimes directly over top of of previous trails but in the opposite direction, which is NOT what normal commercial flights do. The paths of normal aerial traffic are like a road, separated by a cushion of many miles for safety, with nothing in the middle of the paths. We live in this "middle zone" where I can see a path off to the right of where I live and off to the left of where I live. On days with no visible patterns in the sky, there are no stray crafts flying in those empty zones.

Sorry, but unless a debunker wants to come to where I live and witness this for themselves, I will stand my ground and firmly state that they are deliberately creating patterns in the sky over targeted areas. I have even noticed a correspondence between these heavy days and an onslaught of "illnesses" locally, and it comes in waves for no apparent reason. Usually 24-48 hours of heavy aerial traffic. My entire family will complain of unusual symptoms all at the same time for no apparent reason, which is not accompanied by "typical" cold symptoms - localized muscle aches and pains, extreme fatigue, localized migraines, burning throats which go away just as mysteriously as they come on.

Are we ALL crazy, or am I just being observant? You tell me, because I remember a time (most of you may be too young for this) when I could look up in the sky and not see these trails, yet we lived near commercial flight paths and could see planes in the sky all the time. Most of these same planes are STILL in use today, so we can't blame it on new technology. I REMEMBER THIS! It wasn't until the last decade or two when people started noticing things that weren't present before. I am of the belief that it IS the fuel.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


Hey! GenRadek....another reason for for the 'winglets' is to increase fuel efficiency.

Wingtip vortices contribute to the 'induced drag' that is inherent in how wings work, as they produce lift.

The 'winglets' help to reduce that 'induced drag', and decrease the strength of the vortices, and help efficiency.

Good stuff!!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Sorry for the repeat in video post....didn't realize someone had already posted it before me! Great minds think alike....



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by emeraldzeus
 


Well there are a LOT of factors that you have to take into account to better understand why you are seeing "more contrails" than when you were a kid!
1.) Air travel has grown exponentially since the 50s. There are more planes in the sky today then there were 20 years.
2.) Engines change and have become more cleaner burning than those of 20-30 years ago. This means they burn more efficiently, creating more H2O and also depends on the temperature of the engines.
3.) Different altitudes and new air corridors means more planes fly through them and they have fly at certain intervals and heights for safety and efficency!
4.) Most people who "discovered" or see more "chemtrails"happened because theu either heard or read something that they should go and look up. You'd be surprised how many people dont have a clue or even stop and look up at the sky and take it all in. But if you just go and tell people, hey look up at the sky, and then poof! All of sudden what they never noticed before or saw or bothered to pay attention to, all of a sudden seems strange, mysterious, cool, amazing, unbelievable, etc. Suddenly the sky has a whole new meaning and all of a sudden, someone who is not used to seeing a halo around the sun, or a sun dog, or iridecense (check spelling) in a high cloud, sees one, and its OMFG! What is that?? I've never seen that before! Then the paranoia sets in when they read a chemtrail site, and it just blossoms into fear! But someone who has always watched the sky, studied it, and understands how things are, everything else seems normal.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


True that, weedwhacker!


Those little wingtip suckers do wonders for the airplanes! I've heard of planes crashing thanks to severe wing tip turbulence, because a smaller plane was too close to a larger plane landing. Thats why they have to a certain distance seperating them. Hey weed, next time you go by an airport, hang out under the landing corridor and watch how the planes come in! You will also notice what happens after a large 747, Airbus A340, or a 777 comes in for a landing, watch how long the delay is before the next plane behind it comes over you. Especially if its a much smaller plane. Just something fun to do if you are ever bored at the airport!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by emeraldzeus
 


Here is a very good tool to see just how much air traffic there is and the patterns it makes. As you can see, there are many "grids".

There is not really anywhere in the US which does not have many planes overhead everyday. Aircraft at high altitudes are not visible unless they create contrails. When atmospheric conditions are not conducive to the production of contrails, you won't know that the aircraft are there.

www.wired.com...

[edit on 3/25/2009 by Phage]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by emeraldzeus
 



I wish people would stop posting that goran youtube video!!



I'll just copy from a previous post of mine:

Let's get some facts straight here.

Firstly, the collection methods are very poor, dirty old jars in the back of his truck? come on!

Secondly, we need to consider the location of Stamp, Arkansas, it is smack bang in the middle of Arkansas' oil fields as shown on this map here:



And a zoom in of all the active oil wells in and around Stamp:



(each green circle represents an active oil well)

Armed with this knowledge and the knowledge that barium is used in the oil extraction process, why on earth would anyone believe the levels of barium came from chemtrails?


Source:

www.aogc.state.ar.us...



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


GenRadek....I know, actually....because I have flown for over 30 years.

The standard separation for ATC purposes is 3 miles....5 miles behind a 'Heavy', or as it turns out, a B-757, regardless of weight. (EDIT) here because the B-757 has been known to produce very strong wake vortices...)

BTW, a 'Heavy' is defined as any airplane that has a MGTOW (Max Gross Take-Off Weight) of over 300,000 pounds.

Pilots are all taught about 'wake turbulence', and hazards.

When you fly behind another airplane generating a contrail, you will see it a FEW hundred feet below the generating airplane's actual altitude. That is what is known, as well, about how wake vortices behave, for an airplane in flight.

They, the wake tip vortices, generally settle about 300 feet, below the generating airplane....before they dissipate. This, in 'smooth' air....throw in an unstable airmass (that is what is known as 'turbulence' to airline passengers) and the vortices, AND the contrails will dissipate rapidly.

Some real contrails will 'sublimate' after forming....some will linger. It is purely a result of the humidity in the atmosphere at the time.

It is that simple.

If it were not, then clouds would not form naturally....and we already know that they do. Clouds are formed by very natural mechanisms....it isn't even part of a debate!!!!!

[edit on 3/25/0909 by weedwhacker]





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