Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel., page 10

reply to post by gerktron01

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The IR of a complex mixture of hydrocarbons would show just that; a complex mixture most of which is fuel. A better protocol would GC/MS for the organics and ICP for the metals. Likely you would find fuel additives and what was in the bottom of tanks and inside transfer lines.
The only way to do this is to sample a so-called chemtrail in the air and analyze it. Given the technical education level of the chemtrail believers, they wouldn't know what to make of the data until some ranter misunderstood it and posted a diatribe. Then they would dutifully repeat what they had read without any more thought.

If you would take a look at this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Titled Aircraft contrails contributing to global warming.

Now within the OP of this rather short thread is an article from National Geographic. Here is an excerpt that got me thinking after reading about the need to create new biofuels.

Aircraft are believed to be responsible for 2 to 3 percent of human CO2 emissions. Like other high, thin clouds, contrails reflect sunlight back into space and cool the planet.

However, they also trap energy in Earth's atmosphere and boost the warming effect, the study says

Contrails are artificial clouds that form around the tiny aerosol particles in airplane exhaust.

And this is why I am asking for the definition posed in my last post. What are the tiny aerosol particles from?

They appear only in moist, very cold (less than 40ºF/4ºC) air—usually at altitudes of 5 miles (8 kilometers) or higher.

Some contrails can last for a day or longer, though they gradually disperse and begin to resemble natural clouds.

"The jury is out on the impact of contrails," said Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Langley, Virginia.

So at the very least contrails themselves are causing problems, are where do these "particulates" end up after they are dispersed into the atmosphere? And couldn't that be construed as a chemtrail?

This makes a case for contrails being harmful, but it doesn't fully grasp the entire problem, I have personally witnessed the grid making by the same planes going back and forth in one area a few years ago and then leaving a what is referred to around here as a "sundog" and it was a very warm humid summer day in Missouri. The research above says cold is a factor and the planes were not high enough in the sky to be as cold as the criteria requires for the contrail.

So my point is that yes, contrails themselves are a problem of major proportions and even though this is a piece of the puzzle i still think there are other factors involved.

Here is the link from the Nat'l Geo article.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

reply to post by interestedalways

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Every engine releases particulates fancy name for emissions. You car produces emissions as well but to say that its a secret organization or government plot is silly. Until we get away from burning fossil fuels there will all ways be an impact on the environment just how much of one is the question.

This makes a case for contrails being harmful, but it doesn't fully grasp the entire problem, I have personally witnessed the grid making by the same planes going back and forth in one area a few years ago and then leaving a what is referred to around here as a "sundog" and it was a very warm humid summer day in Missouri. The research above says cold is a factor and the planes were not high enough in the sky to be as cold as the criteria requires for the contrail.

So where this this chemtrail belief original from that if some planes are going north/south, and some are going east/west, that it somehow means a grid and spraying?

And any chemtrail believer tell us where any kind of proven spraying is done in grids? Cropdusters certainly do not spray in grids.

Are you saying it was warm at 30-40 000 ft? How warm do you think it was?

Obviouisly if you had sundogs up there, then it was favorable for contrail formation. I think I just need to go run into a wall a few times headfirst, I think I would have more progress at times.

You can look at a lot of the air traffic around your area here. Click on the diagram near the top.
flightaware.com...


[edit on 26-3-2009 by firepilot]

reply to post by C0bzz

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How many airline pilots are ex mil school boy ? If they are ex mil there is no exit from official secrets .They are bound for life .

Nice try but as usual the armchair experts are blowing smoke to crawl up the ladder .

I dont need to keep a log (ho hum) . you guys and your 'by the book' professional banter !

And as for that wetdreamliner , its just a desperate attempt to make up lost ground to the new airbus , the CIA having failed to sabotage it like they did concorde .

Carbon is notoriously brittle and has poor shock absorption . Rolls Royce went bust trying to make carbon turbine blades work.

The real future is titanium alloys ,which america does not have any hard cash left to purchase on the open market . The Russians on the other hand have #loads of the stuff...

American aerospace is going down the toilet due to arrrogance ,greed ,incompetance and a chronic lack of homegrown talent .
half the reason for overreaching in Iraq was to save the defense industry from its own incompetence .

most all of their aerospace tech is stolen form russia and europe because they can never figure the hard stuff out for themselves .

The vaunted raptor is in fact over twenty years old , the design again a rip off from a foriegn power . Its been a disasterous failure in operations ,which is why 'officially' its still in the testing phase .

And it all boils back down to the US oil dollar . Holding back cleaner alternatives so that they can live in the past and blow smoke all over the planet . What is it with american generals and their 'big cigars' anyway ?

Well now the almighty dollars spell is broken ,we can all look forward at least to embracing the alternatives that the the US corporate machine has been stomping on for SO DAMN LONG .



[edit on 26-3-2009 by reconpilot]

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by interestedalways

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Every engine releases particulates fancy name for emissions. You car produces emissions as well but to say that its a secret organization or government plot is silly. Until we get away from burning fossil fuels there will all ways be an impact on the environment just how much of one is the question.

Please don't dirty my post by adding things. No where in my post did you see those words, "secret organization or government plot".

I am trying to be open to all angles of this problem. And it is a problem, is it not?

Originally posted by reconpilot
reply to post by C0bzz

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How many airline pilots are ex mil school boy ? If they are ex mil there is no exit from official secrets .They are bound for life .

Nice try but as usual the armchair experts are blowing smoke to crawl up the ladder .

I dont need to keep a log (ho hum) . you guys and your 'by the book' professional banter !

And as for that wetdreamliner , its just a desperate attempt to make up lost ground to the new airbus , the CIA having failed to sabotage it like they did concorde .

Carbon is notoriously brittle and has poor shock absorption . Rolls Royce went bust trying to make carbon turbine blades work.

The real future is titanium alloys ,which america does not have any hard cash left to purchase on the open market . The Russians on the other hand have #loads of the stuff...

American aerospace is going down the toilet due to arrrogance ,greed ,incompetance and a chronic lack of homegrown talent .
half the reason for overreaching in Iraq was to save the defense industry from its own incompetence .

most all off their aerospace tech is stolen form russia and europe because they can never figure the hard stuff out for themselves .

The vaunted raptor is in fact over twenty years old , the design again a rip off from a foriegn power . Its been a disasterous failure in operations ,which is why 'officially' its still in the testing phase .

There is so much falsehood in your posting, where does one start.

1. Most airline pilots are NOT ex-mil anymore.
2. 787 does not compete with A380, two different kinds of planes. A380 was more out of pride and arrogance, and it has plenty of problems. CIA sabotaging Concorde? Oh god...
3. Aerospace Tech stolen from Russia and Europe? Oh BS.. US, Europe and Russia have all had their own technical innovations.
4. Raptor is not 20 years old, it is not a "disaster", and you seem to miss that it has been operational years now.

None of these have anything to do with chemtrails and evidence of. Again another example of chemtrail believers just throwing up as many of unrelated (and incorrect) things against the wall hoping something sticks.

But then you told us about anti gravity powered F-111s and "Auroras" in storage at AMARC that you can see on google earth.

Originally posted by interestedalways

I am trying to be open to all angles of this problem. And it is a problem, is it not?

Yes, it's a problem. Though not the one chemtrailers would have us believe. And as I have shown earlier in this thread, one of the causes of the problem is new jet engines which are designed to reduce carbon emissions - but as a result are more inclined to produce bigger contrails. And many atmospheric scientists believe that contrails are a bigger contributor to GW than any CO2 emitted by aircraft engines.

IMO that is the real story and the real problem. But it seems to be ignored.

Not sexy enough?

My conclusion: chemtrails are not caused by anything in the jetfuel, but the phenomena may be partly caused by the engines.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Essan]

Originally posted by reconpilot
When our Recon unit was formed just before ww2 , we used a civvy lockheed electra for all our illicit photo recon work. MI6 paid for the aircraft and we flew out of Hendon (and off the record ,Croydon too) Our Wing commanders cover was as so often is the case , 'businessman' .

I know this it totally OT and I apologise, but I can't let this go.

The Lockheed Electra first flew in 1957.

en.wikipedia.org...

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