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Debunking Pseudoskepticism: Common fallacies

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posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Okay, fine. I give up. You win.


I kind of figured you would ever since I asked you to provide evidence on the CH equal in weight to the ETH



Keep on attacking people and calling them names and using your academic logic rules and cutting edge scientific theories and see how far it gets you. Most people won't even understand what the hell you're talking about, except that they'll probably pick up on the fact that you're being accusatory, condescending, derogatory, and insulting.


False accusations. Emotional appeal. Rheotric. Pointless. Dejavu * 100


I don't see any reason to go around picking fights with people because they don't have the advantages of knowledge and education that you apparently do, but I've explained it as well as I can and you still don't get it, or you get it and you just don't care.


As I am not actually picking fights with anybody, your point is just another false accusation.



By the way, that formal debate challenge is still on the table.


No thanks. I have already defeated you.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]




posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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I did not know where to put this, so I decided to put it in this forum. If a mod thinks it belongs elsewhere, I don't mind where it is moved. I just wanted to share a message which I just got inspired with now. I normally am speaking in a more kind of scientific and logical speak, and always try to construct arguments to support my points or to deconstruct others points, but now I just want to speak as an Indigo and be really honest with my views. So whatever I say, is just my view, please do not expect any evidence to be presented or any arguments. It’s straight from my heart.


and always try to construct arguments to support my points or to deconstruct others

your words NOT mine.

spin that please



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by Heike


So your point is you think our approach to debunking pseudo-skepticism could do with being a little more 'touchy feely'? A bit more sweet? You probably you have a point, but you seem to rather selectively propose it - I don't see your homely advice being offered to the harsh and insulting posters who have opposed this thread from the beginning and others like it or those who sneer and scoff at the experiences and evidence offered by proponents of the ETH every day - and you selectively apply your own advice, for that matter. And couldn't you have just said this earlier, rather than relentlessly trying to "exhaust" those who discussed pseudo-skepticism and pursuing opposition of them across threads?



Furthermore, we have now seen the true agenda of Indigo_Child. It is to convince everyone that ETs are real, and here, and being covered up by the government so that we can collectively demand disclosure. So it's not about the fallacies of pseudoskepticism


Ah, you mean like your "true agenda" in trying to undermine this thread and others is because you think by weakening the ETH you might somehow strengthen your pet theories regarding creatures from other dimensions and sky fish? No? It works both ways Heike. Stop conflating issues.

This thread, this debate, is about the fallacies of pseudo-skepticism.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by Malcram]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by Indigo_Child
 


Well he as given up, i aint


and im happy to keep it on topic and you ur own logic against you..

that is why infact you made this thread? for Pskeptics correct?

If you anolgy is correct i belive nothing you say because im pretending to be a skeptic.

so if my argument is based on (1) a lack of connecting dots

(2) un able to be as smart as you
(3) preteding to have an opion that differs with your logic
(4) have no proof to back up whatever claim i have just to argue the case
(5) being a pain in your arse for the hell of it


what makes you think 2, 3, 4 and 5 are infact you being smart? or correct?

You have
(1) based your argument on assuption
(2) Think you are infact gods gift to all men
(3) Dare i say up your own arse "btw that means arrogant" so its not an insult just a desecription
(4) Never wrong
(5) Enjoy being always right when infact others do not wish to debate you as you have no idea what HUMILITY IS
(6) ostrisige yourself for your own arogance
(7) fail to answer MY questions and cherry pick the ones that have no importance...

I will ask you again

Do you know who put you on planet earth and for what reason

this is a simple question and its related to the thread and its not an insult its a vaild logical question.

You can say "i dont know" - your argument is a load of crap
or you can say "yes i do know" and prove to everyone you are full of crap

Its a very easy question.. You cliam to prove what Pseudoskpetic is when infact You have no clue what the word means or the silly reason for it to be ilogicl as a word in the first place

how can one fake being a skeptic? would that mean one is infact a beliver who just wants to piss you off for fun? or to get kicks? when infact he belives you?

Pesudo is a tablet given to people who think its doing them a world of good when infact

the name is to test how ones mind works when given suger and not the medicen to gure "whatever" medicen to cure "whatever" alimenent one has

you argument is a joke and so is your unwillingness to admit you are wrong.

next thing you know we will have pseudoextraterestirals

how dumb is that? as dumb as the very thread you made to stroke your own ego...



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Come on SA. It's just looks like you're trying to pick a fight based on past personal issues. Can't you put this in a U2U and work this out privately?


As for this comment:



How can one fake being a skeptic? would that mean one is infact a beliver who just wants to piss you off for fun? or to get kicks? when infact he belives you?


Just click on the links in my signature and or Google pseudo-skepticism. It's well recognized and it's fallacies well documented. Indigo didn't make it up or it's definitions so your argument isn't with him regarding that.


[edit on 2-4-2009 by Malcram]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


fallacies of pseudo-skepticism.

but is this not the point? pseudo - is fals correct? first used in medicen when one is given suger to think one has the correcrt medicen

"fasle"

skeptic - one who does not belive ones story due to forming there own opinion and will not budge unless proven that one is infact incorrect?

correct?

so a pseduo "fasle" skptic = somone who infact belives what one says but makes an argument for arguments sake...

and i just pointed out incase you missed it:

I normally am speaking in a more kind of scientific and logical speak, and always try to construct arguments to support my points or to deconstruct others points, but now I just want to speak as an Indigo and be really honest with my views. So whatever I say, is just my view, please do not expect any evidence to be presented or any arguments. It’s straight from my heart.

what part of that statement is not or could be classed in its own right as pseudo / skeptic??


and always try to construct arguments to support my points or to deconstruct others points, but now I just want to speak as an Indigo

dont you infact find this statement alone somewhat arrogant?

he/she is telling ATS readers I am better than you becuase im "indigo" = up my own arse.. in short

and then to openly admit this : construct arguments to support my points or to deconstruct others points

is that not what a skeptic does in pursuite of evidence??? but yet you "not as much i may add" and indigo push this down others beaks when she.he does the very same thiing????

im sorry but this is very hpyercritcal... and of all things she/he can not even answer one of my questions

as you see i got this line

we agree to dissagree... even when i stated what is it we dont agree on?

some people THINK they are smart when infact others ARE smart.. big difference...



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


and i ask you in all honesty to read this

The behavior of highly biased 'sneering scoffers' who try to legitimize their prejudice by donning the mantle of science and proper skepticism

then read this..

I normally am speaking in a more kind of scientific and logical speak, and always try to construct arguments to support my points or to deconstruct others points, but now I just want to speak as an Indigo and be really honest with my views.

now you understand my arugment i hope


your heart is in the right place but the person you wish to defend is wrong and makes you look .... how can i say this in away that i dont in anway way make you look as bad as him.her

infact i wont.. just read it..

hope you understand it... it is right there "controdiction"...



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Come on SA. It's just looks like you're trying to pick a fight based on past personal issues. Can't you put this in a U2U and work this out privately?


You shouldn't bother with SA Malcram, he's a troll. He came into this thread to pick a fight so I put him on ignore. It sounds like he's been posting here constantly still trying to pick a fight. Just ignore him and he will get tired and go away.

By the way there has been no argument between us. He just came in here and started attacking me out of the blue without any provocation whatsoever. I think hes acting like this because he thinks I don't think of him to be smart enough to talk to... And he's kind of right. I expect at least the person I am talking to, to spelll properly and at least have basic grammar and to actually make coherent points.


[edit on 2-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by Malcram
 





so a pseduo "fasle" skptic = somone who infact belives what one says but makes an argument for arguments sake...

and i just pointed out incase you missed it:


Yes it means false skeptic, but no, it does not refer to a believer who is pretending to be a skeptic. You are presenting it as if it's an either or situation (which is a logical fallacy, actually, but we won't go there
) It refers to someone who claims to be a skeptic but who is not. For instance, someone who absolutely disbelieves in the UFO phenomenon and ET's - has their mind made up - could say they are "skeptical' about ET's and UFO's and use fallacies to dismiss the issue and the evidence for it. In fact that's a false claim, because a true skeptic simply remains unconvinced but has no fixed opinion either way and does not employ fallacy in denial. 'Skepticism' also has a clear definition. Again, I encourage you to look up the definition for yourself.


[edit on 2-4-2009 by Malcram]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


I dont see this as personal malcrum. but i do find it very hpercrtical for someone to make a post about Pskeptics..to stroke ones ego when the practice the very same thing and use logic science and what not to back up the claims they have,, and when qeustioned get labled as Pskeptics...

You forget i was accused by indigo_child as insulting her.him when i didnt???

were is my apology? did i have or have any of my posts removed from the thread via mods? have i been warned for being off topic? have i used bad langauge? No

but yet i was slandered with "you insulted me" for asking questions based on her/his very own thread?

for one i find that narsistic and very sad.. If one is wrong then one should admit it.. not make out they are the victims of "mob mentality" when infact the mob at hand is only questioning the validity of the thread "as is right"

we did not ask indigo to make this thread infact, she.he invited us to debate it.. or why bother making it?

Did one think that because she / he makes a point that others still will not question it?

that is dumb to say the least in all respects due to the nature of ats and the fact that she . he does not like to be wrong

Look at this statement please:

I just want to speak as an Indigo

what is an indigo?

you may not think it has nothing to do with this thread atall but many will not look at just some posts but read an entire thread then post.. im using MY dots MY connections

is that wrong? as she/.he claims to do the same thing?

I just want to speak as an Indigo

so now i ask you to ask indigo what is infact the motive of this thread and the statements that show to be clear the hypocrisy of it and the down right sillyness of it..



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Then I suggest you take it up with Indigo via U2U in private SA. I don't think the thread is the place for this discussion.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


ah!

It refers to someone who claims to be a skeptic but who is not.

yes so with that statement it means false correct?

You see its all well and good reading a statement if one can not understand it.. this is silly

look at my spelling and grammer.. do you think im smart?

do you think i can not read? do you think i can not brake down a stentance into a logical based argument when infact ever sentace one constucts is based on logic ?

you see for me.. i read very well.. i have a hard time putting my views into words and grammer.. and people find this hard "myself inculded" but understand something

I can READ and i can forumulate equations via how you infact speak to me because thats how MY brain works NOT YOURS but mine...

You may see letters words and grammer.. do you know what it is i see?

questions and answers 1,0's

I do not need you to point me to a link when my brain works fine as it is.. and more so its very very much working in regards to this thread, hence why not one of my posts have been removed for fould langauge or any other reason because i have stayed on topic and made a point that is very cleare...

My point is this: Indigo_child is a hypercrit.. not becuase he.she wants to be it just so happens he.she is not as smart as one makes out....

and to pop that little bubble one lives in I AM SMARTER THAN HIM/HER

does that make me arrogant? does that make me Indigo. ? btw thats is a colour not a mood or a refrence to how smart someone is

you see why someone of my IQ can be some wat grated ?

I have been on topic allll the way thru this and continue to in regards to the question

My very first post.. i used his.her words to get an answer i wanted to UNDERSTAND the argument he.she was making and this was not based on past events as i dont hold a grudge .. but as the thread matured i felt it right to bring up past claims to counter act his.her own USING his.her OWN statements in MY own Defence..

and that is why i will not get a vaild responce..

But im glad atleast we can debate this on a level head without calling each other retarded names or infact going as low as to call each other skeptics or P skpetics

unline some /me rolls eyes



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Malcram
 


this is the perfect place as im trying to point out how silly it is.. I have nothing against indigo.. she.he may be a great person .. but when it comes to a debate of this type with history and attidtude im happy to put a person in the place they belong

and that is right next to me.. because at the end of the day its basicly name calling using fancy words

as hienki (sorry if i got that worng) pointed out its BELITTINNG people for there views..

and to use a word as pesudoskeptic is just a way to be smart and crass

as the word itself is ILOGICAL for one can not be and do at the same time as the word itslef infact tries to sugest

if one wants to do logic i think you need more math classes

for logic is the basis of a sound argument.. that word is both

meaning it is FALSE

that is logical..



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


Come on SA. It's just looks like you're trying to pick a fight based on past personal issues. Can't you put this in a U2U and work this out privately?


You shouldn't bother with SA Malcram, he's a troll. He came into this thread to pick a fight so I put him on ignore. It sounds like he's been posting here constantly still trying to pick a fight. Just ignore him and he will get tired and go away.

By the way there has been no argument between us. He just came in here and started attacking me out of the blue without any provocation whatsoever. I think hes acting like this because he thinks I don't think of him to be smart enough to talk to... And he's kind of right. I expect at least the person I am talking to, to spelll properly and at least have basic grammar and to actually make coherent points.


[edit on 2-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


ah now the truth comes out...

You shouldn't bother with SA Malcram, he's a troll.

Ok im a troll!! next?

He came into this thread to pick a fight so I put him on ignore.

you mean i asked questions? when you infact made a false statment about me insulting you and stil await an apology


next,,,

Just ignore him and he will get tired and go away.

realy? wishfull thinking on your part i guess lol

oh lets keep going shall we.. i think we should!

By the way there has been no argument between us

wow really going by your logic im the devil?? what gives LOL? yep thats right im as totaly confused as you are.. or maybe not.. oh well lets keep going..

He just came in here and started attacking me out of the blue without any provocation whatsoever.

oh well blow me down i thought i was asking a question? was i removed from the thread once? was i off topic once? did i instult you once?

i think not.. lets see what more you have to say about lil old me...

this part cracked me up really it did

I think hes acting like this because he thinks I don't think of him to be smart enough to talk to... And he's kind of right

read that? I think hes ( me ) is doing what im doing coz i cant get respect or ( a kiss on my ass ) for being smart enought to talk to.. lol check the last part

and i think hes kinda right LOL oh boy.... im not smart enough for you to talk to jeez and you wonder why im even here /me rolls eyes..

and last of all the epic fail ( did i mention this befor? )

oh wait "never judge a book by its cover" thought i had to poit that out befor i pasted this comment of yours

I expect at least the person I am talking to, to spelll properly and at least have basic grammar and to actually make coherent points.

wow... totaly WOWNESS on a scale more than epic.

and you say you do not insult people or infact base your arguments on what?

how very very very crass and imature you are...

lol just to be petty you put 3 llls in spelling..



[edit on 2-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I kind of figured you would ever since I asked you to provide evidence on the CH equal in weight to the ETH


Tsk tsk. That's not what I meant, and you well know it. I give up on convincing you to stop attacking so-called "logical fallacies" and "pseudoskepticism" instead of educating people.

By the way, I posted the evidence. Sorry it took me awhile .. I have a life apart from ATS.


No thanks. I have already defeated you.


Your saying it does not make it so. Your saying it more than once does not make it any more so. I can just as easily say that I have already defeated you, as you still have not provided sufficient evidence to support the validity of the ETH by accepted scientific standards.

Nor have you been able to provide even one example of someone saying "there is no evidence." Or even one example of someone saying "UFOs can't be extraterrestrial because it is impossible for extraterrestrials to get to Earth."

Nor have you been able to make a reasonable argument for why any objection to the ETH is invalid (a statement you've made several times) and therefore anyone who rejects the ETH is not only wrong, but deserves to be labeled, stereotyped, insulted, and belittled.

You've been able to convince me that it is useless to continue trying to show you a better approach to opposing ignorance and disbelief than using the aggressive, confrontational tactics you use. You have not "won" any points of the original debate.

P.S. You really, really don't want to start condemning other people about their grammar and spelling - unless you want me to start correcting your numerous spelling and grammatical errors.



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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Ok Folks

Let's stop the petty bickering and address the Topic,

Not Each Other.


Debunking Pseudoskepticism: Common fallacies

And for the few posters who have not yet mastered the art of quoting , please take a few and review these links.

Will make it easier on us all.


Mod Note: How to Quote– Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: Excessive Quoting – Please Review This Link

Thanks



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by Heike
 


Trust me im amazed as you

this is how i have seen this topic from start till now

I did read the entire OP and i did agree somewhat with what indio said.. but i did also hold a strong view that ones argument was not totaly fair.. so i rasied this in question.. my question Heike was put as a one liner

we agree to disss agree

I did not do this? it was indigo who infact did this!!! I was only asking a fair question?

then and yes then she/he wanted to make out that (you) and others.. were infact ganing up ([malcrum) to be fair hes / she was being fair but defending a somewhat postion that is indefencible in alot of ways not so much about the wording that is incrocet but the person making the claim

indigo is a nice person and yes i will say open to things as aliens as myself and i will just like him. her question others...

But we differ in one BIG respect and that is methord.. how can i blame or cliam others are stupid?.. based on just our opinions?

that is injust and it is also crass.. words that are banntered about ATS such as Pskepto are wrong, and wrong becuase its a meme .. this is the very same way librals and conervites bate each other

look at obama and mcain ect this is the very same methord one uses to debunk ther other side?

how can we as people learn if we put each other in boxs and lables when the truth is clear.. we just dont know?

I do not say to someone who has bee abducted by aliens "if that is there belife" OMG CONNECT THE DOTS!!!! that is arrogant and very very bad ..

why not be open and say Oh ok well that did happen and it does not make sens to me but in order for it to do so i would like more evidence or atleast something to make me understand it?

Indigo child bops on about aliens.. and thats fine.. as you can tell from her.his name he/she thinks they are one.. google indigo child for refrence ect..

there is not one jot of proof aliens come from other planets..

there is infact more of a reason that aliens are multi dimeional beings?? why is that?

well they all look humaniod.. would that infact make me pskeptic? I agree with indigo but i still challange him/.her?

thats why i think making people look dumb to make you "indigo_Child" look smart is beneath contempt

i did reply to H ( i hope thats ok hehe ) but i wanted to answer your statment and add to the debate at the same time

and btw im still waiting for an apology from indigo_child to you ascuesin me of insulting you when i never have done so

is that a fair statement?



posted on Apr, 2 2009 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Jbird
 


I am doing my best to stay on topic.. i was accused of insulting and name calling?

i have infact made it my duty to stay on topic and not call the OP any names that would be against ATS T+C.

I can understand your need to keep it on topic in that respect but i have been accused by another member of insults that i did not make nore i did i want to.. all of my posts have been about the topic/thread at hand and will be..

i hope others can see it that pskeptic is in ones on own mind just false as it makes others or atleast blames other for having an opinion..

we on ats are a open mindend bunch i have myself been put in my place by mods and others ... and im happy to admit that . but when someone makes a thread about an opinion then can use my poor grammer and spelling as a way to insult me? is that not the same as me calling someone a dergoty name? let alone slander?

edited: this was my only off topic post due to the fact i was talking to a mod and not the topic at hand, im sorry if this was offtopic but i just wanted to talk to the mod

ill be back on topic after this post as directed


[edit on 2-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]



posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by Indigo_Child
 


Somebody who does not investigate a case is not a skeptic, they are merely doubters. Somebody who attempts to investigate, but makes suppositions, does not take into account all available evidence, distorts evidence to fit their hypothesis is a pseudoskeptic.



= YOU

[edit on 3-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]




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