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Osiris, Egypt and Jesus oh my!

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posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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A few years ago as part of my Master's degree in Egyptology I examined ancient Egyptian religious practise in comparison with more modern Christian, specifically Catholic, practise with a view to liberating discussion of ancient Egyptian religion from the label of "magic." Contending that there is a common humanity among our species which while technologically advancing has not "advanced" in evolutionary or genetic terms.

As part of this I discovered a remarkable coincidence not only in belief about Osiris and Jesus but also in ritual practise. This, I believe, is significant because while a mythology may survive 2000 years it is difficult to imagine the minutiae of ritual surviving a similar length of time or one ritual thus influencing another.

In this forum ancient Egyptian beliefs are often compared with Christian beliefs as "gotcha" moments wherein it is claimed that the similarities are proof that Christianity stole its eponymous Hero from Egyptian mythology. Indeed this claim has become such a feature of the modern world's "received wisdom" that it has attained the quality of conspiracy: a mistruth promulgated for the purpose of advancing/dismissing a certain group of people.

For me my discoveries were a reaffirmation of that said by Pope John Paul II in 1998 encyclical Fides et Ratio

The desire for knowledge is so great and it works in such a way that the human heart, despite its experience of insurmountable limitation, yearns for the infinite riches which lie beyond, knowing that there is to be found the satisfying answer to every question as yet unanswered.

The heart and reason are now as they were 4000 years ago and reason, acting alone without revelation, reflecting on the world around it may come to a certain understanding of the Truth. As the First Vatican Council (Session III, Ch. 4, para. 4) says:

Now reason, does indeed when it seeks persistently, piously and soberly, achieve by God's gift some understanding, and that most profitable, of the mysteries, whether by analogy from what it knows naturally, or from the connection of these mysteries with one another and with the final end of humanity.

The similarities are, hence, not a indicator of cultural theft but an indicator of the presence of the Creator in nature and, par excellence, in the rational soul of humanity designed to seek and, unsurprisingly, often find something of the Truth - each person is an imago Dei thus that many people from many different cultures should have discovered an approximation of the Truth before His full and complete revelation in Christ is hardly surprising.

For those unfamiliar with Catholic ritual and worship the central Liturgy of the Year is the three day Triduum comprising: The Mass of the Lord's Supper, The Commemoration of Our Lord's Passion, and, The Easter Vigil. This is the high point of the Liturgical Year and is, though spread over three days, a single Liturgy as indicated by the usual parenthetic "Sign of The Cross" being used only at the beginning of the Mass of the Lord's Supper and the end of the Easter Vigil - not at the beginning and end of each individual element as is the norm throughout the rest of the year.

Here follows a (much summarized) comparison of the elements of the Triduum and the Middle Kingdom Rite of Osiris at Abydos.

Rite I: Osiris is celebrated in procession as the living ruler with reference to his granting the means of sustenance and his graciousness as a king. The "image" of Osiris (remembering that for Ancient Egyptians the statues of their gods "contained" their real presence) is carried surrounded by rich and regal ornamentation.
Jesus is celebrated in procession as the servant king with all emphasis on His gift of the Eucharist (The Bread of Life) and His service (in foot washing) to His disciples. The real presence of Christ (in the Eucharistic species) is processed around the Church surrounded by rich and regal ornamentation.

Rite II: Osiris's "Day of Combat" The death of Osiris is commemorated as something essential - the death of god is not scandalous but a necessary precursor to new life in abundance. Osiris's death is ritually commemorated in the desert and his body is brought to its place of rest by Isis and Nephthys.
Jesus's "Good Friday" The death of Jesus is commemorated as an essential aspect of humanity's salvation. The death is ritually commemorated in Churches from which all ornamentation have been removed and the retelling of the story concludes with His placing in the tomb.

Rite III: After a period of ritual divine absence the return is celebrated with more sumptuousness than that which accompanied the first Rite. The king is reconstituted in a form surpassing that which preceded the "Day of Combat" With great acclaim the god is welcomed back to his sanctuary.
After the emptiness of Holy Saturday the Church is bedecked with more colour and ornament that at any time of the year. The Messiah is proclaimed as being resurrected in a form surpassing that which preceded Good Friday. With great acclaim the Lord is welcomed back to His sanctuary.

The rites at Abydos corresponded with the beginning of the Nile flood and the ensuing fecundity of the land. In Christianity Easter occurs as Spring begins. Again, all too often, people will speak of Easter as a "fertility rite" stolen from pagan cultures - as if the pagans have the monopoly in celebrating the cycle of life in nature. Belief in a Creator who endows nature with His own reason and intellect through His Logos will unsurprisingly find in the cycles of nature indicators of the divine - such as this new life coming from the desolation of bleak winter.

Faith, of course, plays a role in appreciating all this. It serves apologists and anthropologists alike. But I conclude by saying that all the "Jesus was Horus/Apollo/Osiris/etc." are no threat to my faith and encourage my fellow believers to react likewise. God created the earth and we people, is it surprising then that we should find indicators in creation that point towards the mysteries that faith fully reveals? Is it surprising that through human history different people should have responded to the reason inherent in their, and broader, nature with these approximations to the Truth?

[edit on 24/3/09/ by Supercertari]




posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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Well, I'm not surprised because Judaism is based on Egyptian religious practice that Moses learned as a member of Egyptian royalty. Christianity borrows a lot of mythos and ritual from Judaism. Hence the similarity between Egyptian religion and Christianity, and also explains the amount of Egyptian imagery in Freemasonry.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:32 PM
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I enjoyed your post, Supercertari. I have had similar ideas. You wrote much better than I would have done. I always was a bit put off by statements that this religion "stole" this or that from an earlier religion. I tend to believe that maybe it's just that some truths continue and religions evolve. Perhaps the evolution of some religions is actually a finding of the way back to the original truths which had, over time, been lost, ignored, etc.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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There are many books out there that support this theory. One of my favourite is The Templar Revelation by Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince published in 1997. The authors of that book clearly shows that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist, and that John’s religious teachings were essentially that of the Egyptian mystery religion of Isis-Osiris-Horus. I recommend to those who haven't read the book to do so. That book is also Dan Browns base material for the Da vinci code



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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Interesting, and food for thought.

However, you compared only two religions (religions of large civilizations). I believe you'll find similar with Dionysus and other gods.

I think it has more to do with the way an area of the world honors its deities. In other words, if they mingle (trade or other reasons) then they adopt "neat things" that the other culture does. If the first culture honors its gods with processions (and the Egyptians did the same thing with gods other than Osiris -- Bast and Isis being two of the others that I know about), then the second culture is going to want to "one up" them with honoring their deities.

In the outlines of their lives and the qualities they represent, the two deities aren't very similar (Jesus isn't killed by his Evil Brother, avenged by his (Jesus') son, wasn't married, etc, etc). Jesus isn't dead and a ruler of the dead (whereas Osiris was reanimated and is missing his genitals.) It was claimed that Mithras is far more similar to Jesus.

Interesting bits from the Catholic liturgy, though.

I personally enjoy seeing the practices, though they've vanished from most of the modern world. They still exist in Mexico and Central America and as a way of strengthening the faith among an illiterate people, the practices are effective.

...as they would in the ancient (illiterate) world.

Interesting reading, and good post.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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Another similarity...

It is interesting that followers of the 'evil' Egyptian god Set (or Seth or Seit in some dialects) were called Seitists.

Some writers have hypothesized that the words 'Satan' and 'Satanists' have their origins in this ancient Egyptian cult.

While there is no tangible proof to support this, it is certainly plausible.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by TheComte
Well, I'm not surprised because Judaism is based on Egyptian religious practice that Moses learned as a member of Egyptian royalty. Christianity borrows a lot of mythos and ritual from Judaism. Hence the similarity between Egyptian religion and Christianity, and also explains the amount of Egyptian imagery in Freemasonry.


As far as I know, there is not a clear link between Egyptian religious practise and Freemasonry.

There are many myths, however, which link Masonic practice to the Egyptians' way of life.

For example, the origin of the Masonic apron is unclear, but many Masons tell the following story:

During the building of the pyramids, volunteers were called on during the inundation of the Nile to assist with the building of the pyramids. These volunteers were rewarded by being given a certain gown, which gave them a particular elevated status as stonemasons who worked on the pyramids.

This gown would allow the wearer free passage down the Nile on any boat which they chose. Such a mason would be allowed to flag down any boat which passed by, and travel freely of that boat.

This gown, which gave the worker prestige and certain privileges or freedoms became an inspiration for many others to volunteer to work on the pyramids.

It later became adopted by Freemasonry as a symbol of freedom of Masons.

I am certain that early Masonry was inspired by ancient Egyptian society, but I have not yet encountered anything in Freemasonry to suggest that the ritual or Masonic practice was inspired by Egyptian religious practice.



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus
Another similarity...

It is interesting that followers of the 'evil' Egyptian god Set (or Seth or Seit in some dialects) were called Seitists.


Err... source? Never saw that one before, and I'm pretty familiar with Ancient Egypt.


Some writers have hypothesized that the words 'Satan' and 'Satanists' have their origins in this ancient Egyptian cult.

While there is no tangible proof to support this, it is certainly plausible.

Your sources haven't been reading their Bible and looking at their Strong's Concordance. "Satan" means "adversary -- someone who plots against someone else" in Hebrew. There's a nice review of the term and the time that the word "Satanist" was first used (relatively late -- 1559, and used by Protestants to designate anyone who disagreed with them).

Source: the Etymology dictionary: www.etymonline.com...


[edit on 26-3-2009 by Byrd]



posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
"Satan" means "adversary -- someone who plots against someone else" in Hebrew. There's a nice review of the term and the time that the word "Satanist" was first used (relatively late -- 1559, and used by Protestants to designate anyone who disagreed with them).



That's true, but an Egyptian origin is still possible. Dr. Michael Aquino, founder of the Temple of Set, suggests that "Satan" originally was derived from the honorific title "Set-Hen", or "Eternal Set". Since Set was premusably seen by the Hebrews as an adversarial object to Yahweh, who knows?



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd
Err... source? Never saw that one before, and I'm pretty familiar with Ancient Egypt.
[edit on 26-3-2009 by Byrd]


I read this in a book. I'll have to check the name of the book over the weekend, but I believe the discussion was along the same lines as Masonic Light as posted above.



posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Supercertari, excellent post, thank you.


Originally posted by Byrd
However, you compared only two religions (religions of large civilizations). I believe you'll find similar with Dionysus and other gods.

Well, Herodotus seemed to consider the rites of Dionysus to be Egyptian and Osirian. (But there are others who say they came from India.)


Herodotus, ii. 49. “Melampus, the son of Amytheon, introduced into Greece the name of Dionysus (Bacchus), the ceremonial of his worship, and the procession of the phallus. He did not, however, so completely apprehend the whole doctrine as to be able to communicate it entirely: but various sages, since his time, have carried out his teaching to greater perfection. Still it is certain that Melampus introduced the phallus, and that the Greeks learnt from him the ceremonies which they now practice. I therefore maintain that Melampus, who was a sage, and had acquired the art of divination, having become acquainted with the worship of Dionysus through knowledge derived from Egypt, introduced it into Greece, with a few slight changes, at the same time rhat he brought in various other practices. For I can by no means allow that it is by mere coincidence that the Bacchic ceremonies in Greece are so nearly the same as the Egyptian.”



I think it has more to do with the way an area of the world honors its deities. In other words, if they mingle (trade or other reasons) then they adopt "neat things" that the other culture does. If the first culture honors its gods with processions (and the Egyptians did the same thing with gods other than Osiris -- Bast and Isis being two of the others that I know about), then the second culture is going to want to "one up" them with honoring their deities.

I believe that was more or less Frazer's opinion, although he also attributed it to the "independent workings of the human mind" (paraphrased). We should all remember that these things were not exactly taking place on the other side of the world; this was a very syncretistic time for religious thought, and Alexandria plays a significant role in the development of the early Church. Among the Gnostics, we find that the earliest cross is simply the crux ansata; the Coptic Pistis Sophia calls Jesus Aberamenthou, "Lord (lit. Bull) or Conqueror of Amenti."


In the outlines of their lives and the qualities they represent, the two deities aren't very similar (Jesus isn't killed by his Evil Brother, avenged by his (Jesus') son, wasn't married, etc, etc). Jesus isn't dead and a ruler of the dead (whereas Osiris was reanimated and is missing his genitals.) It was claimed that Mithras is far more similar to Jesus.

I'm not sure about that. Early Egyptologists like Budge certainly thought so, and Tom Hare in Remembering Osiris (p. 231) came to the same conclusions when he noted that the comparison between Osiris and Christ "speaks for a far more important Egyptian legacy in Western thought, specifically in Christianity, than has ever been acknowledged." Even the usually conservative TourEgypt site ever-so-casually declares that "We find its echoes in nearby civilizations such as the Greeks and Romans, in far-off Japan and China, in Christianity, even in Shakespeare, where the avenging prince is named Hamlet."

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Eleleth]



posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Supercertari
 


proof that Christianity stole its eponymous Hero from Egyptian mythology
Christianity did not. The hierarchy of that institution that was populated by a high percentage of unconverted pagans borrowed from mythology to set up a counterfeit trinity based on Isis Horace Set. This was the establishment of the anti-christ system that fights to maintain the ascendancy, to this day. It is an essential element of the new world order system being set up by the moneyed interests of the world, to have ultimate dominion over not just the material possessions of the masses, but the minds and conscience also.
We need to recognize this false belief system for what it is and to designate it as Babylon and the system that it supports, as the beast.
It is our responsibility, as believers in the true God, to rid ourselves of the tyranny of Satan who enslaves us with the false doctrines of devils. We must reject the counterfeit trinity and study for ourselves from God's word, to inform ourselves through the Holy Spirit, the true religion of Christ.


[edit on 28-3-2009 by jmdewey60]



posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Nothing is stolen... Religions simply borrow from each other. They are stories to help those that understand the allegories and symbolism find truth. Although, those that craft the new 'borrowed' stories have a habit of elitism, and they do not seem to want followers to understand the stories. I think you must step back, and analyze religions the world over, not just Jesus and Egypt. You will be surprised, possibly utterly amazed at the similarities, if you can get past the minor discrepancies. But, if you understand they are all allegories to one TRUTH, you won't be as surprised. Decipher religion, and you decipher and uncover the true Mysteries. The Mysteries are nothing more than a higher understanding of nature and life, and a cosmology that is rational.

ATS, please start waking up to the conspiracy of the OCCULT. These threads would all be far better off, if people recognized the biggest conspiracy - the conspiracy to keep us all unaware of the Esoteric knowledge, and Hermetic philosophies. Realize that our current religion is MONEY. Arguing about Truths written in different ways(religion) is only furthering our ENSLAVEMENT. Realize the big picture, that there are Elites misusing the Occult behind the scenes. Some elite, through religions(that were well established) practically wiped Hermetic philosophies out - deeming them 'heretic' and, essentially BANNING truths.

If we keep arguing about minute details of religion, we are falling into the trap of distraction once more.

Some places to start realizing small similarities:

Check out Enki and his E-abzu, and descriptions of it. Some good info here, I believe:
www.thelivingmoon.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

' In Ancient Egyptian art, Nun also appears as a bearded man, with blue-green skin, representing water.' Abyss, apsu, abzu - is SPACE.
en.wikipedia.org...

Compare to one-eyed, bearded Odin's Valaskjalf:
en.wikipedia.org...álf

Enki: 'His symbols included a goat and a fish, which later combined into a single beast, the goat Capricorn, recognized as the Zodiacal constellation Capricornus.'

Osiris: 'The tale of Osiris becoming fish-like is cognate with the story the Greek shepherd god Pan becoming fish like from the waist down in the same river Nile after being attacked by Typhon (see Capricornus).'
en.wikipedia.org...

Sun deities(wiki):
en.wikipedia.org...

Anyways...I could go on... but so can you guys.



posted on Mar, 28 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Oh boy. Lets go ahead and look closer at Osiris and other Egyptian gods and compare them to Jesus of Nazareth.

But first let me comment on what others have stated:

reply to post by Saurus
 




It is interesting that followers of the 'evil' Egyptian god Set (or Seth or Seit in some dialects) were called Seitists.


Seth or Set was not evil in Egyptian Mythology until 100 A.D when the Romans in Egyptian turned him into a demonic figure. Just to add. But I have not heard about that Satan origins word, infact, I do not think that is accurate at all. But it is an interesting hypothesis even if it is wrong. Seth good until Romans

reply to post by beebs
 





' In Ancient Egyptian art, Nun also appears as a bearded man, with blue-green skin, representing water.' Abyss, apsu, abzu - is SPACE.

Compare to one-eyed, bearded Odin's Valaskjalf

Enki: 'His symbols included a goat and a fish, which later combined into a single beast, the goat Capricorn, recognized as the Zodiacal constellation Capricornus.'

Osiris: 'The tale of Osiris becoming fish-like is cognate with the story the Greek shepherd god Pan becoming fish like from the waist down in the same river Nile after being attacked by Typhon (see Capricornus).'


While some religions are copy cats indeed. The Christian, Catholic or Judea Christian God's son is actually unique in his own and so is God himself. For instance as you have these Gods listed there is a lot of care taken in there physical features. However, in the bible physical features are really not that big of a thing. Infact the bible does not even mention if Jesus had a beard. The Gospel of Mark is an amazing book of the bible because it protrays Jesus as both God and Man, while the other books tend to focus on his Godly side more, the gospel of Mark focus's on both equally. There are more complex and other reasons, but that is one of the few that I enjoy. I am not familiar with the fish so I will just leave it as that.

I also see that sun deities were mentioned which reminds me of the movie Zeitgeist (which I hated). Let just go ahead and examine:

What is a sun deity?


A Solar Deity (also Sun God(dess)), is a deity who represents the sun, or an aspect of it. People have worshiped these for all of recorded history. Hence, many beliefs have formed around this worship, such as the "missing sun" found in many cultures (see below). Many cultures have worshiped the sun or a physical representation of the sun throughout history.
WIKI

Was Jesus a solar deity? That answer is a simple no, he was not in any correlation related to the son. The ancient hebrew word for Son was Sunu, while the ancient word for Sun was sunne. If there was a reference to a solar deity wouldn't they have just referenced the actual SUN?

Lets look at some others:

Horus maybe? Nope has no resemblences or similarities with Jesus.
Attis? Nope.
Krishna? Nope.
Dionysus? Nope.
Mithra? Nope.

While they say that in the film Zeitgeist there is no proof, of anything that they say. No sources from where this information was devrived. It is a simple no, while there maybe minor similarities and I mean minor. Jesus is unique and so is the bible.

reply to post by Supercertari
 




God created the earth and we people, is it surprising then that we should find indicators in creation that point towards the mysteries that faith fully reveals? Is it surprising that through human history different people should have responded to the reason inherent in their, and broader, nature with these approximations to the Truth?


The question is has the Truth already been delivered? (which I believe it has) or is it coming? People either believe in God or do not. People either believe Jesus existed or do not. Many believe that the truth has been said and has been delivered, Many believe that God does not and has not and will never exist and many believe that God is alive but has not contacted us in sometime therefore no truth can be reached. Truth is a complicated word, in both meaning and understanding. But I believe that we really need to stop fighting over ourselves on who is right and who is wrong, if we can stop division among ourselves then we will be able to actually have a conversation over our beliefs with one another without worrying if we get shot for believeing what we do.

"We need to learn to live together or we are going to die alone." ~ Jack Shepherd.

Now if anyone wants to ask any questions about what I stated above I will be glad to answer them.


[edit on Mar 28th 2009 by TheMythLives]




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