Jesus - The Imaginary Friend

Originally posted by kinglizard
How must it feel to be a non believer and yet live in a world where 80% of the worlds population going back thousands of years believe in God.

How would it feel if everyone around you believed in Zeus?
Yeah, kinda like that ...

Originally posted by kinglizard
I guess humanity at any given point in time only has less than 20% of it's population living with a sane mind. lol

Sane or insane isn't the question...
Indoctrinated or not indoctrinated, maybe...
Wanting an afterlife or wanting the truth, maybe...
Finding comfort in the unknown by making it seem known, or finding comfort in knowledge, maybe...

I don't think any believer is less intelligent or less sane, I just think they're wrong.

Originally posted by kinglizard
I'm a Christian and it makes no difference what others think of me. I'm confident in my beliefs, secure in it's clarity and at peace with my faith.

Good.
Same here... except for the faith part.
I'd rather look for truth in things that have merit rather than having to substitute it with faith.
To each his/her own though .

Originally posted by kinglizard
I guess humanity at any given point in time only has less than 20% of it's population living with a sane mind.

Yes, the good old eighty-twenty rule at work again.

I have no faith in majorities, because people are, on the whole, pretty stupid. If eighty percent of humanity believes something, you may be sure it is either self-evident or wrong.

The OP is just a mishmash of half-digested comparative mythology, easy enough to debunk, but Nietzsche's dismissal of Christianity as 'Platonism for the people' (In his introduction to Beyond Good and Evil) is, I think, a little harder to refute.

Originally posted by undo
apollo is in the book of revelation, 9th chapter. he's known as apollyon, the destroyer. he's the leader of the things coming out of the bottomless pit. he's not jesus.

Maybe in the Space Cadet Bible.

In the world of dull, plodding facts there is no connection between the Greek god Apollo and the Apollyon of Revelation.

Neither is Apollo to be identified with Jesus. The correspondence in Graeco-Roman mythology is to Dionysius/Bacchus, not Apollo.

Jesus is, let us not forget, a wine-god. He turns water into wine and wine into blood. Thus he offers his followers the sacrament of Dionysius.

Originally posted by kinglizard
At different points in my life:

1) Strict Roman Catholic

2) Agnostic

3) Atheist

4) Buddhist (sorta kinda)

5) Christian

So you have faith, but you're serially unfaithful?

Sort of like Elizabeth Taylor, only with psalteries instead of husbands...

[edit on 31/3/09 by Astyanax]

Who Is Jesus to you? Your eternal life depends on your answer.

In his famous book Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be JUST a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us."

Hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, Scripture records the words of the prophets of Israel predicting His coming. The Old Testament, written by many people over a period of 1,500 years, contains more than 300 prophecies describing His coming. All of these details came true, including his miraculous birth, His sinless life, His many miracles, His death and His resurrection.

The life Jesus led, the miracles He did, the words He spoke, His death on the cross, His resurrection, His ascent to heaven - all point to the fact that He was not merely man, but more than man. Jesus claimed, "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9), and "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6).

Remember Jesus said He did not come to condemn the world but to save it. He said all who are weary and heavy-laden come to Him and He will give you rest, and He DOES. Think how many lives are changed of those who seek Him. These people are not all weak-minded idiots; you have to realize that these people experience a real change within themselves.

The history of all mankind, regardless of race or religion, is recorded by whether it occurred before the birth of Jesus or after -- BC (before Christ) and AD (Anna Donis, The year of our Lord), just a simple little attribute we take for granted, and something many people don't even realize.

Jesus is a friend alright, but there is nothing imaginary about Him.

I hope the mods will indulge me and let me print the last chapter of the Bible here, Revelations 22 because imo, it sums it all up in one package.

22:1 He showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb,

22:2 in the middle of its street. On this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruits, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

22:3 There will be no curse any more. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants serve him.

22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

22:5 There will be no night, and they need no lamp light; for the Lord God will illuminate them. They will reign forever and ever.

22:6 He said to me, "These words are faithful and true. The Lord God of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to show to his bondservants the things which must happen soon."

22:7 "Behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

22:8 Now I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. When I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had shown me these things.

22:9 He said to me, "See you don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers, the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."

22:10 He said to me, "Don't seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand.

22:11 He who acts unjustly, let him act unjustly still. He who is filthy, let him be filthy still. He who is righteous, let him do righteousness still. He who is holy, let him be holy still."

22:12 "Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work.

22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

22:14 Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.

22:15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star."

22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears, let him say, "Come!" He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.

22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to them, may God add to him the plagues which are written in this book.

22:19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

22:20 He who testifies these things says, "Yes, I come quickly." Amen! Yes, come, Lord Jesus.

22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all the saints. Amen.











[edit on 31-3-2009 by Bombeni]

Originally posted by Bombeni
Who Is Jesus to you? Your eternal life depends on your answer.

Oh snap! In that case...

Originally posted by Bombeni
In his famous book Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be JUST a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us."

You guys always seem to forget the more obvious answers...
Jesus never existed, or at least he never existed as written in the New Testament.

It's like saying "Hercules was either the son of Zeus or a lunatic. Look at the stories we have of Hercules. Does he seem like a lunatic to you? NO. So he must be the son of Zeus. Therefor Zeus and Hercules are gods. Therefor we must praise them. etc etc..."

Is it really hard to pick out the flawed logic therein?

Originally posted by Bombeni
Hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, Scripture records the words of the prophets of Israel predicting His coming. The Old Testament, written by many people over a period of 1,500 years, contains more than 300 prophecies describing His coming. All of these details came true, including his miraculous birth, His sinless life, His many miracles, His death and His resurrection.

I see it more like a 3 part trilogy.

Part 1: Prophecies
Part 2: Fulfillment of prophecies and invention of more prophecies
Part 3: Fulfillment of all prophecies

But saying the prophecies were fulfilled in the real world is stretching it, because we have no evidence that they were fulfilled in anything other than a fable...

Originally posted by Bombeni
The life Jesus led, the miracles He did, the words He spoke, His death on the cross, His resurrection, His ascent to heaven - all point to the fact that He was not merely man, but more than man.

The life Hercules led, the feats of strength he performed, the magic that happened - all point to the fact that he was not merely a man...

So what?...

reply to post by TruthParadox


you're coming pretty close to it. if you want to see some really interesting reading, check out these links. they'll raise your eyebrows

www.herealittletherealittle.net...
www.thedivinecouncil.com...

or look at this verse from the book of revelation:
Revelation 9:11
They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.

APOLLYON is APOLLO AS THE GOD OF PLAGUES, the Destroyer. That's APOLLO, as in the god apollo...
en.wikipedia.org...

so yeah, you're getting close to it, just keep reading a bit further.

reply to post by undo

APOLLYON is APOLLO AS THE GOD OF PLAGUES, the Destroyer. That's APOLLO, as in the god apollo...

Maybe in the Space Cadet Comparative Mythology.

Yes, Apollo is the sender of plagues, identified as such in the very first pages of the earliest Greek literary work, the Iliad. He is also the god of healers and healing.

Not to mention the god of music on stringed instruments, of poetry and the arts in general (he was the father of the Muses), of prophecy (the famous shrine at Delphi was dedicated to him) and many other things besides.

Apollo is not Apollyon.

Christainity is right. There is a God and Christ. And even tho you dont believe you can never disprove God!

The difference between God Jesus, and Apollo is that Jesus had 12 witnesses.

Jesus fullfilled the OT prophecies.

Jesus actually lived on Earth and was a man.

Jesus created a church that has (as predicted) spread throughout the entire world.

Jesus church created 2000 years of saints who cured the blind, raised the dead, had the stigmata, and worked countless miracles.

Jesus was prophecied well before his coming.


and so the proof is in the spreading of the faith.

all falsehood sooner or later falls on it's head, which is why those fairy tales haven't spread like Christ has.




Bye.


[edit on 9-4-2009 by JesusisTruth]

Btw slybmatt

I just reread your post. You have WAY more self control then me.

God bless you.

peace.

May i ask to delete my inital response?


But anyways the guy kinglizard was talking to on page 2 proved me wrong. That man is truly open.



the writer
but not many people can truly think for themselves. And so it remains a touchy subject



The problem with thinking for yourself is that many sociopaths have used the same excuse and mass murderer cerial killers that it was fun in their own mind, their own way of thinkin.

so that logic never works. There has to be a set of standard morals and so forth to be lived by.


peace.

It always comes to the point where Christians are open minded and since the rest don't believe in God or Christ then we aren't open minded. Everyone talks about how an atheist can't disprove God exists and blah blah blah when the flip side is that yo can't prove he does exist. This whole argument get's so tired and drawn out that it becomes ridiculous.

You want to know what I see? (probably not...but hey it's a forum)

On both sides of this argument (God is real vs God is made up) I see two types of people. Both of these types exist on each side of the debate.

1. The truly faithful. Those faithful in God and those faithful against. They discuss, they debate and they make their points. They don't fall into belligerence and insult every single time someone questions their sides.

2. The shaky faithful. (at least as I perceive it) This is the person who talks a big game about Jesus and flips out when someone mentions he isn't real. He claims to have proof but never shows any concrete evidence. They are quick to judge you regardless of their non-deity like bodies and minds.

This is also the person who says God must not be real and is determined to sling insults about how the believers are fooling themselves and are blind.

Man this is so old

Let me break it to you.

Christians: You have yet to show real proof. Jesus hasn't shown up and the self-fulfilling prophecies aren't a strong base. We and our families have all heard the end-of-the-world routine for centuries and it hasn't happened. Oh, and we've also heard the patronizing lines alot too. Not gonna help you gain non-believers.

Atheists: Whether you like it or not, the Big Bang has yet to be proven either. Do we really need to continually remind people of religious faith that they are stupid, blind, weak (insert more names here) all the time? If a Christian wants to have a discussion with other Christians well I say fire away. Now if in that discussion they decide to sit and insult the non-believers...well...they started that one in that thread.

Why can't we all just have a handshake, a hug and move on?

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


There may be two types of people who "flip out" when someone criticizes Jesus to them. There may be one who gets angry just because he or she does not like to be challenged. Then there is the other type, who gets angry when anyone criticizes a person they love like they love a family member. Like the old saying "love me love my child." You know how people get when someone says something about their family, well sometimes thems fightin words. I don't get angry just because someone says they don't believe in God or don't believe Jesus was born of a virgin, died for our sins and was resurrected on the third day. I feel sad not angry. I DO get angry when people use foul and hateful things about my Lord and Savior. I hope that explains it.

reply to post by Bombeni


I can handle that to a point. If someone is fouling against God and Jesus and whatnot that makes them beligerent and stupid IMO. If they come flying in with (curse) Jesus and (curse) God then to heck with them. Who needs it? I've had Christians and Atheists alike just plain curse at me for being with Isis. I just walk away because at that point I realize they have little to say and it means nothing.

However on your other points about the ones who are over-anxious and can't handle some disagreement or criticism...yeah I am not going to keep bothering with them after a while.

-Kyo