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US Top gun pilots were actually trained by the British

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posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 04:28 PM
reply to post by Zaphod58

Thats not necessary Zaphod...I was just trying to point out that the readily available ratios and numbers posted on most sites don't make the difference. You are right and A2A kill is an A2A kill. However from a pure dogfighting standpoint between 2 fighter aircraft it is a tad more lopsided. BTW I do not mean any disrespect by calling you Z and seriously apologize if it offends you by me making the presumption of shortening your name.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 26-3-2009 by djvexd]

posted on Mar, 26 2009 @ 04:41 PM
reply to post by djvexd

Meh, I've been called a lot worse than "Z" before.

The biggest problems with figuring out kill ratios is the fact that many times multiple planes claim the same kills, or a plane shot down by an enemy fighter will be attributed to ground fire.

I've even heard instances where planes shot down in A2A were said to have been hit by ground fire in an effort to make the squadron/plane type look better.

posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 02:31 AM

Originally posted by RubberBaron
lol, epic troll topic.

GO UK!!!


I think that the USA forced these UK pilots to train them by threatinging them with THE GRATEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD!



I can assure you that I did not start this thread as a "troll" subject, nor was I trying to suggest any elitism on the part of RAF pilots. If it reads like that, then I apologize as it was certainly not my intention.

As I was surfing ATS, a news article about this was shown on TV and I thought it was an interesting subject which I would like to hear more views and gather more information on.

I am glad that I posted it because it has stirred a certain amount of national pride from both sides of the pond resulting in some very interesting and informed posts.

Thanks for your input guys,


posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 03:30 AM
reply to post by Rigel Kent

The rules of engagement demanded that U.S. pilots have visual confirmation of any enemy aircraft before engaging, which was too close for air-to-air missiles to be effective, and until late in the war the fighters were not armed with guns. And both the U.S. Air Force and the navy found their training programs were not good enough for jet-age fighting. After the war this was remedied with the creation of the Navy Top Gun and the U.S. Air Force Red Flag program..

Red flag was not started until 1975 top gun was established in 1969 ,however graduates didn't hit Vietnam until until 1970 and was not until 1971 that most marine squadrons had a top gun. So there training was not the change so much as about that same time 1970 pilots were told two things there altitude for operations was increased and not to try to dog fight the migs but instead they would use the f4s strength.

The f4 was better armed and had a higher ceiling and was faster. The pilots were told don't try to out turn the MIG you will lose simply get high and hit them from above. This tactic also corrected another problem in the early part of the war f4 pilots would watch there missiles bounce off migs, They need distance they were long range interceptors.

posted on Mar, 27 2009 @ 03:43 AM
The biggest problem with most of the missiles was that they just didn't work. Pilots would watch them fall off the plane and never ignite, or track the sun, or just miss.

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