Open your mind to what's around you before it's too late...

There are many people who enjoy debunking everything that is posted as gloom and doom. As if, they believe everything is going to be fine and nothing is going to happen. However, I do respect the fact that they have their own opinions and can post their opinions; it just confuses me as to why they still believe that nothing is happening around them.

“The stock market is going up, everything is fine now.” How can the economy be fine if the U.S. is 11 trillion dollars in debt? “Wait, that's not that much money and our government our doing everything to get us out of this debt.” Are you sure about that? Are you sure they are doing everything to get us out or everything to keep us in?

The economy will fall either in a depression or a complete collapse of the dollar. “No, we can't be heading into a depression and the dollar is fine. Everyone who believes that is crazy or just paranoid." Well, I remember at one time everyone thought we were crazy because we were saying we were in a recession while the government said everything was still okay. Then when the government said we were in a recession everyone was like . “However, the dollar can't fail us it's the world standard trade currency.” Take the blinders off my friend because China and the UN want to change the currency to something more stable. Meaning they want the dollar out as the world standard.

I'm not here to tell you what to think or how to live your life. Instead, I'm here writing this to help you take the blinders off to see what truly is happening around you. You can take this openly or bash it, it's up to you. Just know that there really isn't that much time left before something does happen and I believe that when it does happen it will be too late for too many. Do you own research and seek the truth my friend before it’s too late.

It's kind of counter-intuitive that there are so many skeptics and "debunkers" roaming the halls of this site. This site is supposed to be about exposing stuff, not furthering the efforts to sweep things under the rug. Even if some of it is kind of hokey, so what?! Who's it hurting? There's more denial of truth here than I care for, personally. The air is just plain oppressive sometimes.

We humans don't even know what's out there, what's possible nor how things work in any realm. It's ignorance, arrogance and self-deception to think we do. Instead of so much nay-saying, I say it's time for more open-mindedness, curiosity and tolerance.

I agree with the OP however a quick internet search will show you that the real US debt is 60 Trillion give or take, sorry to make your day even worse but it hasnt been as low as 11 Trillion since before Clinton came into office.

I saw a recent interview with him on British TV where he more or less admitted that it was more like 18 Trillion when he left. I am not a doom and gloom merchant but I really do think that the dollars days are numbered.

Just yesterday the Bank of England Guvnor told the Government that the vault was empty. Once the dollar collapses the DOW will follow and just watch the world dominoes. I hope I am wrong.

The only countries that will not be affected so badly are Africa, China and Asia
probably in that order too.

PEACE,
RK

reply to post by bputman


I've been thinking about this a lot myself. S&F for you. A couple of things came to mind about all the rapid changes. More people than ever before are interested in economics and politics. More are waking up everyday. The transpancy we've seen already is an aye-opener and awe-inspirer as it leaves us incredulous. I realize the transpancy we've seen is just the tip of the iceberg, but it's a positive sign.

I imagine someone reading some of our posts could have an epiphany, a few moments of insight to completely blow their minds. Then they think about it compared to what they believed a moment before . . . it's a whole new world. And it's darn scarey to consider that returning to being a Third World Country is a possibility and what that means to our current mundane daily lives. It's overwhelming.

Have you ever tried to understand and/or piece together the detailed dynamics of what happened - derivatives, hedge funds, etc? I'm no idiot, but the information just caressed the top of my head as it flew over it!

I read somewhere today that China is mostly invested in US dollars, and I take that as a sign they can't arbitrarily blow us off right now. But, I agree with you that it's coming. I often have the thought at work as I walk down the hall or in the car in traffic how weird it is to be aware of these possibilities and yet play the game just like everyone else.

We are living through unpredented times in American and World history, and no one knows how all this will turn out. That's frightening but also (eventually) opens the mind to consider the many possibilities, some of which are positive.

Then again, look at my name "Dreaming's Free!"

People tend to believe what they WANT to be true rather than actaully taking stock of what IS true. Those with heavy stock investments tend to believe the market will go up and all will be well. Those with no stocks or assets often tend to rub their hands gleefully at the prospect of a total meltdown, which will prove them correct and put all the others "on their level." People who just bought a house tend to believe that over the long term housing never falls, while renters often believe that real estate is a racket. And so on.

Very few humans, on either side of any given issue, have the strength of character to cast aside what they WANT to be true and to make a cold, sober assessment of the facts. Since "the facts" are too complex and occluded for any given individual to comprehend, ultimately an "objective" view of reality may be impossible. But we can certainly approach a better understanding of what is likely to happen by recognizing our own prejudices and doing our best to look beyond them.

People tend to believe what they WANT to be true rather than actaully taking stock of what IS true. Those with heavy stock investments tend to believe the market will go up and all will be well. Those with no stocks or assets often tend to rub their hands gleefully at the prospect of a total meltdown, which will prove them correct and put all the others "on their level." People who just bought a house tend to believe that over the long term housing never falls, while renters often believe that real estate is a racket. And so on.

Very few humans, on either side of any given issue, have the strength of character to cast aside what they WANT to be true and to make a cold, sober assessment of the facts. Since "the facts" are too complex and occluded for any given individual to comprehend, ultimately an "objective" view of reality may be impossible. But we can certainly approach a better understanding of what is likely to happen by recognizing our own prejudices and doing our best to look beyond them.

reply to post by bputman


I think the problem is this.

People don't realize that the situation we are in is nothing more then a big mirror to our own internal problems.

When more then 50% of the countries unions end up in divorce, what do they think will happen to the country? I am guilty of this.

When everyones attitude is "You owe me something", what do they think the will happen to the country? I am guilty of this.

When our youth, see what our elders are doing in regards to responsibility, what do they think will happen to the country? I am guilty of this.

When we start trying to place the blame anywhere but where it belongs, in each and every individuals hands, then we no longer see who the bad guy really is and always has been, ourselves.

Doing the right thing is a choice, regardless of what situation you are in. Only you can make the best of things in regards to your world and until we see that, people can blame who ever they want, because it will always come back down on the one who is blaming. We haven't learned that yet?

Peace

i was posting the other nite about how human psychology and how it effects opinions is usually pretty underrated or poorly understood especially when people have the choice of

giving a depressing thought a chance of appearing legitamite...especially when should this be true...the person would appear helpless (in their opinion) to do anything.............OR just calling it nonsense (or whatever words first come to mind that they can string together that get the job done) of wisking them safely back to their comfort zone

now there are some that can accept this doom and gloom ...hell some ...crave it....but i think it makes some UNCOMFORTABLE...and to eliminate this unpleasent emotion (since they can) ....they believe whatever it takes to accomplish this ...........

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I agree with the OP however a quick internet search will show you that the real US debt is 60 Trillion give or take, sorry to make your day even worse but it hasnt been as low as 11 Trillion since before Clinton came into office.

I saw a recent interview with him on British TV where he more or less admitted that it was more like 18 Trillion when he left. I am not a doom and gloom merchant but I really do think that the dollars days are numbered.

Just yesterday the Bank of England Guvnor told the Government that the vault was empty. Once the dollar collapses the DOW will follow and just watch the world dominoes. I hope I am wrong.

The only countries that will not be affected so badly are Africa, China and Asia
probably in that order too.

PEACE,
RK

With the collapse of the dollar China will not set idle if their country loses half their wealth invested in The United States Of America. China is already being affected with millions of their citizens losing jobs because of the decline in the U.S. and worldwide economies.

Originally posted by DreamingsFree

I read somewhere today that China is mostly invested in US dollars, and I take that as a sign they can't arbitrarily blow us off right now.

Do not assume that China will shy away from even severe short-term pain in favor of long-term gain.


China will do whatever China thinks is in China's best interest For The Forseeable Future!

China has not forgotten "The Long March" just as America has not forgotten its Revolutionary War. China has been a naation, in some fashion, for 5,000 years. It does not cleave to the "Bottom Line" view that has come to infect the West; No matter the "We're just like You" happy talk of its current leaders.


China, at a fundamental, cultural level, takes the Long View.

And the financial needs of the West do not necessarially figure prominently in that future.

What you don't understand, is that China's wealth, relies mostly on exports to the USA and other western country's.
If they didn't export to the USA there GDP would be halved.
China is whining about having to keep money in USD bonds.
But its there own fault.
They have based there economy almost solely upon exports to the USA and other country's.
They just complain now because they lose money on currency transactions.

Originally posted by cpdaman
i was posting the other nite about how human psychology and how it effects opinions is usually pretty underrated or poorly understood especially when people have the choice of

giving a depressing thought a chance of appearing legitamite...especially when should this be true...the person would appear helpless (in their opinion) to do anything.............OR just calling it nonsense (or whatever words first come to mind that they can string together that get the job done) of wisking them safely back to their comfort zone

now there are some that can accept this doom and gloom ...hell some ...crave it....but i think it makes some UNCOMFORTABLE...and to eliminate this unpleasent emotion (since they can) ....they believe whatever it takes to accomplish this ...........

Well Said.

Originally posted by amari

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I agree with the OP however a quick internet search will show you that the real US debt is 60 Trillion give or take, sorry to make your day even worse but it hasnt been as low as 11 Trillion since before Clinton came into office.

I saw a recent interview with him on British TV where he more or less admitted that it was more like 18 Trillion when he left. I am not a doom and gloom merchant but I really do think that the dollars days are numbered.

Just yesterday the Bank of England Guvnor told the Government that the vault was empty. Once the dollar collapses the DOW will follow and just watch the world dominoes. I hope I am wrong.

The only countries that will not be affected so badly are Africa, China and Asia
probably in that order too.

PEACE,
RK

With the collapse of the dollar China will not set idle if their country loses half their wealth invested in The United States Of America. China is already being affected with millions of their citizens losing jobs because of the decline in the U.S. and worldwide economies.

China has never been a nation to "sit around idly" notwithstanding the present crisis, they are still expecting between 6 - 8% growth this year.
China has been busy making international deals to secure minerals, commodoties and raw materials for the next 25 or so years, the deals are already done.
I am aware of the recent 20 million job losses in Guangdong province but if my math is correct, that is less than 2% of the population and that is their largest manufacturing zone, so I would expect the majority of jobs to be lost in that province.

PEACE,
RK

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Rigel Kent]

Good thread.

I think lots of cultures have a subgroup where one can make themselves 'uncomfortable' so as to gain enlightenment. Flaggellation for example, or beating yourself with a cat-o-nine-tails.

But in the 1970's Leon Festinger framed the concept of "Dissociation" which is where you have an uncomfortable idea and the mind just instantly, automatically ejects it out the airlock. This happens on a nano-second-by-nano-second basis in all humans, imo. Now this means that the mind can "run away" from ideas it doesn't like. Also, the mind is where thelegs themselves get their orders --but note how running away in one's mind, i.e. dissociation, means NOT running with ones feet? The unpleasant thought which transmits the RUN signal to the feet has to overcome the brain's tendency to dissociate and say, "Nah, I feel better not running just yet."

wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
wiki/Sympathetic_nervous_system

Now the process of Cognitive Dissonance is said to be mental or psychological, but it is surely accompanied by a physical interaction of brain chemicals so who is to say where this process happens?

If I think something bad, say, "Marshall Law will come to my country", it may cause fear effects like bile in the gut or a flight/fight/freeze modality BUT If I can shift my thoughts to a better one, say, "Nah, that'll never happen." the interesting thing to note is the physiochemical effects in the body. The tension eases away, etc.

When you study hypnosis, you learn that it is happening to you with every waking moment. The only question is if you choose to volitionally interrupt the data stream of what the world is saying. Flagellation isn't my first choice, but I do respect those who perform that act in the right spirit. In the wrong spirit, even beating yourself up can be harmful.

opening one's mind to the global financial crisis

is easier if we, individually, see & understand the incremental 'steps'
(or 'seeing' the Trees in the Forest) that are being taken by the Fed/Treas/central banker cartel...


the recent upward market responses to the ever developing plans on 'reviving' the US economy via bailouts
and unrestrained buying the toxic-assets owned by the banks....
and then Geithners newest request to have authority to control Insurance
Firms and core Industrial corporations, along with banks...

U.S. seeks expanded power to seize firms
Goal is to limit risk to broader economy
Video

updated 3:10 a.m. ET, Tues., March. 24, 2009
WASHINGTON - The Obama administration is considering asking Congress to give the Treasury secretary unprecedented powers to initiate the seizure of non-bank financial companies, such as large insurers, investment firms and hedge funds, whose collapse would damage the broader economy, according to an administration document.

The government at present has the authority to seize only banks.

Giving the Treasury secretary authority over a broader range of companies would mark a significant shift from the existing model of financial regulation[...]
[color=gold]~source: MSM~

all these 'structural road-maps':
i.e.; restructuring of financial systems,
creating a PPIP (public-private investment plan),
and taking over the regulation of any & all nationally 'strategic'
sectors/industries/corporations by the small cabal of 'planners'
i.e. the Fed/Treas, PPIP...

Is the groundwork preparation ~ on the National -Scale ~
for what is going to be proposed at the 2 April '09 G-20 Summit of industrial (civilized) nations... mostly 'Westernized' & NATO members...
on a Global-Scale.


The PPT (plunge protection team) is heavily assisting the current market rally...
because this manufactured rally will be used as an affirmation that the
USA plan & program of bailing-out, massive funding, and establishing a new central planning entity...
is the proper way to overturn the world-wide economic recession that is underway.


at least those are a few of the 'trees' i see in this forest...
~or else my mind is 'seeing' fictional conspiracies~

thanks,

[edit on 25-3-2009 by St Udio]

reply to post by bputman


You may be right, but heres what make this place great:
Even though we know were coming to an end, people will call you chicken little. its their right to.
Every story has 3 sides, and we get 2 here.
Ours, and the "its all ok" side.
Freedom may be disappearing from the world, but its alive here, and even though you may disagree with others, its freedom.
p.s. im with you.
But others are entitled, too.

Yes, this economy is in absolute turmoil. I see it everywhere, every day. More and more businesses closing down, leaving more people with no jobs, and also making it harder for people to find jobs.

I think more than anything else right now, we need to be most concerned about the economy and what is going on around us. I have never known so many people without jobs in my life. While I was in los angeles, I didnt know ONE person who had a job. Every person I knew had lost their job because their companies could no longer afford them.

Will we just sit and watch this country fall down before our eyes, or are we going to be strong for once and do something about it, with or without the governments help?

OP - S&F for you.

The 1,000 point bump up in the DOW gives the impression we're past the bottom, but the most optimistic economists say the bottom is towards the end of this year, which is when the DOW should also bottom given there are a few quarter end reports coming and miserable quarters. Optimistically economists also say that unemployment won't peak out until 2010. Pessimistic forecasts tell us this will bottom out 2-3 years (a few individuals say 12-25 years). But if we average out optimistic (9 months) to pessimistic (3 years), a reasonable perspective would be 2 years before the economy stops declining (Spring 2011).

"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny."

"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other."

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed."

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their Constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to
dismember it or overthrow it."

Abraham Lincoln the 16th President of the United States.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by bputman]