Oakland Police Massacre Casts Ugly Glare on Ex-Felon Desperation

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Your ignorance knows no bounds does it.

Plenty of people (more than anyone here would guess) are wrongfully convicted.

Plenty of people who are rightfully convicted are good people.

Hello, my name is Unit. I am in my thirties. I own my own home. I am married with two children. I own my own business. I go camping. I play ball with my kids. I volunteer with the humane society. Last year I donated over 10,000 lbs. of fresh food to my local homeless shelters. I'm on the PTA and also coach elementary age basketball at my kids school.

Do I fit your profile when you say "acting like felons"?

Hello, my name is Unit, and I am a felon. I'm a felon that gave three more people full time jobs yesterday. What have you done for society lately?

Originally posted by andy1033
Police are all serial killers, and there are bound to be so many cases of murder by the police. Very sick people join the police to get there wish of murder and running vendettas.

I do not want to talk about this guy, because we will only get one side of the story but police are absolute sick people, and who gives them the right to be the beasts they are.

are all the crazies out today? my father was a police officer for 20 years and has yet to kill anyone. i see a hole in your insane theory. off topic please leave

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


Lets hope that his rage, desparation and fear were greater that the folks he victimized. Who cares what was on this thugs mind, or what he was feeling? He was a violent criminal and the problem here is that he should not have been out of prison.

If you want to give a violent offender a chance and hire them, or rent them out a room in your home, that is your business. I certainly am not going to and to the extent that he gets caught again, terrific, I hope he lives in a three strike state and is 2/3 on his way to spending his life in the grey-bar hotel.

These people commit many crimes before they are caught. Be real about that. The other thing that I think goes largely unnoticed is the fact that thugs like this absolutely terrorize the neighborhoods they live in. I am far more concerned about a poor kid being unable to walk down the street to a park or to a library because a violent thug is hanging on the corner with his buddys than I am about anything that happens to him upon his "reentry" to society.

I am 100% behind the fact that there are way too many folks in prison in the US. Drug related crimes, particularily on the use side, prostitution and other offenses are no way serious enough to warrant jail time. These are folks for whom we should have targeted programs. Job training, reentry assistance, education assistance, aprenticships in trades, anything that can assist these folks turn it around.

We should not be spending a dime on supporting the violent offenders. They should do more time and harder time.

Nobody put the assault rifle in this guys hand. He had free will and made choices. Unfortunately, other folks, and not just the police paid for those choices.

Instead of keeping them there we have to try and pawn them off onto government sponsored "reform programs", which are nothing more that political bargaining chips that make the government look effective and compassionate at the same time when dealing with crime, all the while the crime rate steadily increases.

Mixon did not want to reform. he was a career violent criminal till the end.
His actions show this.

One he had a long criminal record and previous arrest for felon in possession of a firearm.

Then when the cops try to stop him he had another firearm, a assault rifle that is not legal to sell in Calif and most likely stolen from a Calif permit holder or illegally brought in from out of state. bad news.

Just the illegal possession of a illegal (non permitted) assault rifle and possession of a firearm by a felon (second offence) would have got him a lest 10 more years, and maybe life in prison as a repeat violent felon.(Calif has a three strikes law)

He got what he deserved.

I for one think he should never have been released after the first felony possession of a firearm by a felon.

reply to post by Unit541

AWESOME!

STAR!

AWESOME! Way to go, Unit54, nice job.
I'd say more, but...
don't need to.

reply to post by dolphinfan

Very good post Dolphin, Star!

Thanks for your op.
I too, am more concerned for the safety of innocent kids and civillians, than I am about a con's rights & re-hab...

You're right about mixon's case, I absolutely agree with you.
I just hope the cons who really WANT to change, are given the chance, as long as they are walking the walk, and talking the talk, it will show on them.

The ones who aren't doing what they're supposed to, and demonstrating poor behavior & old attitudes, should be dealt with harsher.

reply to post by ANNED

Couldn't agree more, Ann, Star!

He was given a chance to reform, and instead, went to war on authority.

In a relieving sort of way, I'm just glad he didn't go to a church, or a school, or a public place, where no-one is armed to fight back. Hope that came out right...what do you think about that?

reply to post by andy1033

Wow!
Andy,... Andy,... I'm terribly sorry you feel that way. But please let me make an observation here:

You are obviously angry & resentful about some kind of injustice that occurred to you; and I am sorry. (I hope I'm doing OK so far)...

And this victimization has obviously given you very bad feelings against authority/cops/someone?

Perhaps you could be more specific, (without the harsh generalizations) in describing how your case relates to the system of law & parole, like my original post tries to discuss?

You've been here at ATS for a while now, so I know you must be capable of decent writing, without attracting warnings or hostility. With all my sincerity, prove me correct please, ok?



[edit on 3/24/2009 by FRIGHTENER]

reply to post by Unit541

Your ignorance knows no bounds does it.

Always start off with a personal attack. Your credibility triples instantaneously.

Plenty of people (more than anyone here would guess) are wrongfully convicted.

Plenty of people who are rightfully convicted are good people.

That's right.

And I was never talking about those people. I was talking about the repeat offenders; the 1/3 of felons who commit crimes, go to jail, get released and end up back there at some point in the future.

I'm to presume these people are simply wrongly convicted twice or three times in a row?

Thanks for putting words in my mouth as well.

Do I fit your profile when you say "acting like felons"?

Absolutely. (That's not a personal attack btw)

"One may smile and smile and still be a villain"

The worst criminals are those that don't appear like one and do everything in their power to maintain a façade of normality, charity and openness.

Look at the Bush Administration, the CEO's of AIG, Rod Blagojevich, or hell the entire banking industry for an excellent example.

Need I remind you some of the world's worst serial killers happened to be well-educated, trained professionals that went out of their way to convince everyone they were normal functioning members of society?

Ted Bundy was a Law Student, Harold Shipman was a qualified Doctor, John Waynce Gacy was a clown in his spare time that entertained children at birthday parties, afterwards kidnapping them and killing them.

So please, spare me the "holier-than-thou" attitude, and the belief that people who commit charitable acts can never be criminals.

That's a crock of bs.

What have you done for society lately?

Never been arrested/suspected/charged, never infringed on other people's constitutional rights and always stayed within the bounds of the law.

Oh I'm sorry, I should be showering the streets with gold and running Little Leagues to prove my worthiness to human kind?

Your two-dimensional views of Puritanism and what constitutes being a "Good Samaritan" only further exude your lack of understanding of the criminal mind.

Criminals want people to fall for their crocodile tears and public displays of reverse psychology.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


You weren't talking about those people? Read your post again. You generalized all convicted felons. I was simply stating, in a manor as arrogant as your post, that not all convicted felons are criminals.

You're quick to judge, knowing nothing about an individual except that they're a convicted felon.

And speaking of holier than thou... read your post again mister high and mighty. Mr. I've never crossed the street without using a crosswalk, mr. I've never exceeded the speed limit. Let me tell you from experience your highness, the system creates far more criminals than it takes off the street. Most of the criminals you say you're talking about, have non-violent, victimless first offenses. They go to jail and get educated by hard core criminals. They come back to the world, and find they've been blackballed by society (namely, people like you). Without the ability to land a stable job that pays the bills, they turn to their newly acquired skills they picked up from "B&E Bob" in the slammer.

There are plenty of real criminals, who should be locked away for the rest of eternity. However, you seem to forget that good people end up in bad situations. Would you resort to violence to protect your family? I hope so, or you're not worth the time it's taking to post this reply. Only 22 of our 50 states have a Castle law. Assault, mame, or kill a real criminal in the course of protecting your family in your own home in one of the other 28 states, and guess what... you're now a convicted felon. A convicted felon with a violent offense. In societies eyes, you're worse than the guy caught crossing the border with 3 tons of heroin. If you and heroin man are are the only applicants for a job, bet the farm that the guy with a drug offense gets the job before the guy with violent tendencies. You could tell the employer the details surrounding your crime, but everyone's got a story, and if you're a felon, nothing you say is the truth.

The problem that the article from the OP points out, is that society (you) lump the "good people in bad situations" in with the likes of murderers, rapists, etc... Send an English speaker to mexico, and make him stay. Before long, he learns Spanish. After all, he really doesn't have a choice. He's surrounded, immersed in the Spanish language. Send a good person to prison, surround him with criminals. Once he's "served his time" and is released, he finds out that he will never really "pay his debt to society". People like you continue to treat him like a thug. Survival instincts kick in when someone's abandoned by their society, and a criminal is born.

The point is, don't generalize, and don't judge before you know a person. Of course, in your eyes, the best people are all the worst criminals... right? Every good samaritan is Ted freakin' Bundy.

reply to post by andy1033

Think for yourself for a change.

I always do, thanks

Non lethel weapons must of been a god send for the serial killers that join the police, they must love what they do to people so much.

So non lethal weapons are now tools of these supposed oppressive serial killers in uniform eh? Not that the 9mm they carry around isn't an effective tool.

Even though the police have never found that i have commited any crime,

Although it seems to me as if they really suspect you of committing criminal activity but go on.

they have never stopped there organised haressment of me period.

Let me guess what this organised harassment is, they routinely pat you down ask you questions stop you on the street or in your car right? Probably doesn't have anything to do with your buddies, or what area you hang out in, or how you dress. It's a complete conspiracy of the cops in your area to hunt you down like a dog and try and make your life a living hell.

You live in a dream world if you want, but i am going to tell it straight.

Please do, tell it to us straight. Including exactly what you may have done or do that might provoke a police officer to look at you suspiciously.

Police are murderers period and my life proved it.

So, your dead and speaking to us from beyond the grave? AMAIZING!

Plus do not say its a few bad apples, what a load of tosh that saying is, 99% of them would like to kill anyone they want, and like i say there are more ways to kill people than just killing them straight out.

I think there is more of your tale about these vicious bloodthirsty cops than you are letting on, I think there is a critical element you aren't telling us.

I don't think you have told it to us straight. I think that you are blaming cops for coming down on you because you like to do things that probably are against the law. The cops know that you do these things, but they just haven't caught you in the act yet.

I think the serial killer cops in your area probably look at you and probably your buddies as a known group of people up to no good and they probably are targeting you because they know your all up to no good and they want to make sure you know they are watching.



[edit on 3/25/2009 by whatukno]

This is where the desperate slide into liberalism begins.

When someone kills it's because society failed them. Before long we'll be giving murderers 15 year sentences just like the UK.

So here are your excuses:

We didn't give them a good education (they dropped out of school in the ninth grade after attacking a teacher)

We didn't try to rehabilitate them in jail (they were too busy getting their prison tats/raping their cellie/brewing Merlot in the toilet)

The police provoked them (by asking them politely if they wouldn't mind coming back to jail to answer their latest set of murder charges).

Let's try vainly to set a few liberal minds straight here. Mixon had an extensive criminal history, and had been in and out of prison since he was 20 years old. He violated parole on an assault with a deadly weapon charge, and was linked via DNA evidence to the rape of a 12 year old girl who he dragged off the street at gunpoint, he was also believed to be responsible for at least 5 other rapes. He had also previously been the main suspect in a separate murder case but was only convicted on lesser charges associated with that crime (identity theft, forgery etc).

I'm sorry, but I've known poor people, lots of them, just take a visit to West Virginia. But those people don't use their poverty as an excuse to murder people and rape children.

He was the very worst kind of violent savage. Creatures like this function on base instinct, they see, they want, they take - lives, defenceless women, possessions - you name it.

The premature end to his life was inevitable, creatures like him never reach old age, I'm just sorry that he took 4 good police officers with him before they put him in the dirt.

reply to post by Retseh


Alright, fine, but remember, you're the one to started it.

Nobody's making excuses for criminals. It was merely pointed out that not all convicted felons are murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc. The point is simply that just because a person is a convicted felon, does not mean they are a detriment to society. Not all convicted felons are Mixon, or Bundy, or Manson.

I married a felon too. Did you know that in most places, getting pulled over with a single joint in your car is a misdemeanor? Did you know that getting pulled over with a joint and groceries from the store is (still) a misdemeanor? Did you know that if your groceries include plastic zip-loc bags, gallon freezer variety, that the "baggies", plus any amount of controlled substance (even a single, rolled joint) amounts to "intent to distribute"? Another felon is born.

All felons are not created equal, is the only point I was trying to make. No desperate slide into liberalism, but I suppose it did create a prime opportunity for someone to inject liberal vs. conservative BS into the thread.

I agree that there are monstrous people who deserve to spend the rest of their lives in jail. However, as many have said, there are also many who don't deserve to go there in the first place.

Let us not forget: Prison is a dangerous place. Take a guy with no priors, no weapons, no history of violence or theft or any other lawbreaking, in for having just enough weed to count as "intent to deliver" and put him in the general population of the average maximum-security prison. On a daily basis he will face a near-constant threat of beatings, torture, rape, and murder from his fellow inmates (and sometimes, from guards as well). He may never have thrown a punch or hurt a fly in his life up to that point. But the continuous threat of violence and sexual violation over a period of years turns good people into animals. One quickly learns that, in order to survive, one must take extreme measures. Joining gangs, learning to fight and fight dirty, crafting makeshift weapons for self-protection--these are all skills inmates learn just so they can live long enough to see the outside world again.

I lived most of my life in an area with no fewer than 4 prisons in a 50-mile radius (mostly maximum security), and I've known many guards and other folks who work in the prison system. One thing they've all told me is that prison is not about rehabilitating the penitent or even punishing the guilty. It's an industry. It's about money. The more inmates the better, because for every person incarcerated there's money entering someone's pocket. And, because it's done on the cheap to maximize profit, it's essentially a "zoo" for society's human detritus. There's no "real" control by the administration. Inmates run every prison--that's one of the first things my former criminal justice professor (a former prison guard) told us on our first day of class.

How do we resolve these problems?

Seems the first thing we need to do is recognize that certain prohibitions simply aren't working. Decriminalize and/or legalize and regulate drugs and prostitution. It's worked for many European countries and some states; it can work nationwide. Eliminating criminal punishment for "victimless crimes" and re-thinking what, exactly, a crime is in the first place, and the appropriate level of Society's response is a big start in the right direction.

Second, increase, rather than decrease, the variety of available options for dealing with felons. For those non-violent offenders we still wish to put away, put them someplace where violence is not a daily threat. They can be re-educated, rehabilitated, and prepared for an eventual return to the outside world, with the tools they need in order to at least survive, if not succeed.

For violent offenders, I'd like to say they should rot in prison forever--but this is unworkable; part of the reason someone can be out in ten years on a murder charge (depending on the state and the circumstances of the crime) is because law enforcement depends greatly on the use of such deals to get criminals to turn on each other and catch "bigger fish". Also, has has been stated, "violence" does not necessarily mean one is a cold-blooded killer; in many states what many of us would consider justifiable self-defense is essentially illegal and classified as a "violent" crime.

Maybe in the case of such people as the offender in the article, the prison system should be re-worked so that rather than having a handful of guards trying to control a population of semi-organized thugs there should be an army of guards controlling individuals who are prevented from having contact with each other. No more gangs, no more "yard time", no more putting groups of inmates in situations where violence can occur. Fewer opportunities for violence=less need to learn "survival" skills that turn non-violent offenders into hard-core criminals. Of course, this means you'd have to hire more people and design/build prisons differently, thus lowering the profit margin, which means the privatized prisons would probably be out of business--just as well; personally the idea of a "privatized prison system" under the control of corporate bureaucrats scares the Hell out of me.

Of course there are other factors to consider: Like it or not, there's a verifiable correlation between hard economic times and a rise in criminal activity. Desperate times create desperate people, and such people sometimes take extreme measures for what they see as survival and/or success. I say this not to excuse their behavior, but as a reminder that regardless of your own feelings on personal responsibility there are those who think and feel differently from you, and we as a Society have to deal with that. Had you lived under the same exact circumstances as they, you might feel differently as well.

There's also the fact that law enforcement hasn't exactly had a stellar track record of late when it comes to dealing with some situations. There was a time when cops were trained to defuse situations through peaceful negotiation and conflict resolution; these days it seems too many officers let their Tasers do the talking almost as if they want to escalate situations to violence. Frankly, I don't care that most LEOs on this board probably would disagree with me--the Taser is an instrument of torture, pure and simple. It's meant to coerce compliance by inflicting pain. Far too often it's being used in situations where there's no need. Against people who are already violent, or when it can be used to disarm a suspect with a weapon, sure, use it. Against a non-violent college kid whose only "crime" is demanding answers from a Senator at a public venue and not relinquishing the mic, it doesn't matter how much he annoys you--he does not deserve repeated 50K-volt shocks just because he's a loudmouth. Nor does a college student who forgot his ID for the computer lab deserve it, nor a protester who uses non-violent civil disobedience tactics. If you hurt people enough, and for the wrong reasons, they eventually get the message that you're playing for keeps--and the end result is needless bloodshed. Violence creates more violence.

I've been thinking the main reason for such violence by police is because the administrators at the top of departments are the same guys who used to crack hippies' heads open with batons when they were the rank-and-file; upon reaching some level of authority these people (many of them thugs themselves) institute policies of violence in their departments. I'd like to think their ilk will soon retire and maybe some level of sanity will return, but we'll see.

reply to post by Unit541


No one "started" anything, that's bar room brawler/4th grade speak. This is a discussion, look it up.

If you married a felon and you/he has a rap sheet for smoking dope, good luck to you, we are all defined by the choices we make.

While I agree that sentencing regulations are out of control for petty offences, they were not out of control for the creature in question and the subject of this thread, namely Lovelle Mixon.

The "injection of liberal vs. conservative BS" into this thread began in the very first post with a link to OpEdNews, whose motto (on their web page) is "Progressive - Tough - Liberal". Link a liberal website, expect a conservative response.

To try and place the behavior of this savage on society's shoulders is just another nail in the coffin of personal responsibility.

Thirty years ago people would have burst out laughing at the suggestion that a rapist and murderer of 4 police officers was a victim of societal oppression, now we are expected to swallow it whole without so much as a whimper of dissent.

Well, not I.

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


This is all done on purpose and it’s been in the works for years.
I have The NYPD Bronx Borough Commander on tape back in 1976 stating this in uniform.
Please see my thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think it’s a great piece of footage but nobody seems to be interested, perhaps because the good Chief is saying some things that people dont want to hear.

Please do go take a look.

reply to post by Retseh


Please quote the response in this thread that states anything even remotely resembling blaming anyone but Mixon for Mixon's situation.

Nobody said that it's societies fault that this guy was a monster. Nobody even disputed that he's a monster.

It's just that there was a lot of generalization going on regarding convicted felons. I simply state, that not all convicted felons are like this piece of trash. Not even the article in the OP suggested that this guy should have been treated any other way. Only illustrating that what has occurred in this very thread, occurs in society at large. Rash generalization, and immediate judgment based on the fact that a person has a criminal record.

Whether you've ever been in trouble with the law or not, I hardly think you'd want your entire life, every ounce of who you are, to be defined by your decisions you made and actions you took when you were 17 years old. The truth of the matter, is that a felon is never truly able to pay their debt to society. They can serve their sentence, make restitution, perform community service, whatever the judicial system deems appropriate as punishment for their crime, yet they will "pay the price" for the rest of their lives, no matter how long ago the state told them their debt was paid, and released them back to society. Society cannot distinguish between what a person has done, and who a person is. The guy busted for a couple of joints is the same as the guy who raped and murdered. They're both just felons.

reply to post by Retseh


I don’t think it so much that the Police are responsible as a mater a fact I would say if it were not for the Police more people would be dead.

The Police take a lot of flack for things they have no control over.
How often do we here Officer Smith did a great job on the news?
Outside of crooked and corrupt Officers we don’t hear much from the media about the valor some of our Police Officers display.

I feel that the conditions that create animals such as the one are controlled and nurtured to create a very specific outcome.

The guys who never hit the street or LZ too often are in charge of Military and Police maters and that’s why we have so many problems.

I feel that the biggest threat to America is not some extremist shoe bomber but the International Banker.

Its not the Cops, Military, or even the President who got us into this mess. It’s the Banker and has always been the Banker.

Even when I was on the job we all knew that Bankers always walk.

I cant for the life of me understand why someone can steal $25 and end up with a greater jail sentence than someone that stole billions?

I cant understand why Banks who through greed and thievery stole Billions get to keep what the stole and brazenly hit us up for more and threaten to cause martial law if we don’t give it up.

Some here might say I am crazy or a conspiracy nut but I think they are flat out stupid, these guys always get their way regardless of how it affects the rest of us.

That to me says it all.

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER




What can be done about violent offenders, living in our communities, who think they have much less to live for, and are willing to vent their anger on innocent people?

Should they be legally required to register as 'violent offenders' similar to 'sex-offender' laws?

I'd like to see that but it will never happen because we'd have to include the super-violent and deadly highway crimes like speeding and drunk driving and red light running. And that would include 90% of the country.