Obama set to unveil Mexico border drugs/guns plan, page 2

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reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:07 AM by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by delta33
Cut the head off the snake and legalize drugs.

I completely agree with you!!!

It's time for people to believe in personal responsibility again.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:12 AM by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by delta33
Cut the head off the snake and legalize drugs.

Yes because legalizing Cocaine which in turn is used to make Crack will solve all of our problems.

While were at it lets legalize Heroin to stop warlords in Afghanistan.

G-d forbid we actually try enforcing the law and blow the snake's head off.

[edit on 24/3/09 by MikeboydUS]

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:35 AM by djzombie

While were at it lets legalize Heroin to stop CIA SANCTIONED warlords PUT IN POWER BY OUR GOVERNMENT in Afghanistan.

Fixed that for you.

Furthermore, prohibition creates crime. Not drugs.

You can take any commodity, ban it and achieve the same result - crime - violence. Just because you ban something doesn't mean there's no desire for it. A black market for said commodity will spring up over night.

The actions the government takes against those so called criminals that use drugs ruin a persons life far worse than any drug ever could.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by djzombie]

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:38 AM by merkaba93

The full-auto and select fire weapons, RPG's and grenades the drug cartels are coming from US dealers?

Class III weapons are very carefully tracked and registered by BATFE.

Those weapons cannot make it from the manufacturer to the dealer and then on to the end user without the BATFE knowing about it through unconstitutional paperwork.

If those weapons were indeed coming from the US then the dealers would be breaking existing laws and could be punished (however unconstitutional that is).

"If", and that is a big questionable "if", these weapons were coming from the US the BATFE could make an example out of one or two of the dealers as they do with individuals and clear up the problem.

Why do I get the feeling though that the proposition from Barry Soetero and Eric Holder will include the necessity of keeping Mexicans in Mexico safe by infringing 2a rights of the individual in the US?

It's like saying people like to drink too much purple koolaid so we need to ban drinking glasses.

Here's a hint fed.gov... If you legalize the drugs it takes the profit out of it and hence the criminal element, or at least elevates the criminal activity to mostly white collar crime like big-pharma. You could tax it too and maybe help end the deficit? Treat drug addicts like they have a medical problem, not a criminal one treated through incarceration.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:51 AM by Caminhando

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

You better not support our occupations then...cause that would be hypocrisy...

You can't argue closed door policy and "their problems don't affect me" and then say, "Oh, we have to invade that country because they threaten our oil supply or national security (even though said country[-ies] are on the other side of the globe).

REALITY CHECK.

1. Why did we consistently invade and provoke Mexico in the 1800s? Why do we insist on relegating their people to third-wrung labor force [read for slavery] if not that it's based on some inadequate concept of racial inferiority?
2. Why did we invade Haiti again...and again....and again...??
3. Why do we consistently support Right-wing regimes in Latin America, that end up creating the rampant stomping-on of civil liberties there - even though we are the beacon of democracy???
4. Why did our government actively train the Brazilian dictatorship's police force (in the 60s) on how to torture their rivals in the students' movements (after having actively worked to discredit the elected leader that was in office prior to the dictatorship taking over)???
5. Why did we give Saddam weapons to use on the Kurds? Why did we use the Kurd genocide as a reason for Saddam's evil (despite our NATO ally, Turkey, who is still oppressing their Kurds to this day)???
6. Why did we elect to get rid of a socially democratic government in Iran...so that a secular right-wing state could be implemented...only to cause a blow-back of islamic fundamentalism which is now the BIG issue in our security???

Cause and effect, much??? Answer these 6 questions...tell me where the blame lies and tell me we don't need to clean up our act and realize whose been running the show. You and I are NO DIFFERENT from a Nicaraguan farmer, Mexican bracero, Brazilian student, impoverished Haitian, Kurdish goat farmer, Iranian small-business owner...etc...

Who is it who ends up screwing ALL OF US in the end (hint: not the US - much more complex than that)? Why is it we consistently blame each other? hmmmmmmm....tick tock...analyzing is tough and time-consuming....it's probably just easier to turn on the TV and zone out, huh? Life is so hard! Let's see what's on FOX and maybe the bad thinking will just go away.......it always does...

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:54 AM by MikeboydUS

reply to post by djzombie

I have seen first hand what drugs can do to a persons life. Things that cause a person to destroy their lives, career, and family are not things that should be freely available. The person's logic and self control go right out the window after use.

Thats why I say blow the snake's head off.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 10:56 AM by wonderworld

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

WOW, So true They are finding one excuse after another to permanently ban all weapons or put strict restriction on them.

There are also lots of advertisements out there about identity theft, internet security threats, etc. These have all increased in the frequency recently. I don’t know if any of you have noticed?

They will try to enforce some regulatory plan, that in fact would control everything! It will most likely be a wolf in sheep’s clothing, (to protect the people). Very sinister if you ask me.

I think something should be done on the Mexican border but the mention of 9 out of 10 guns being traced to the US is certainly a cause for alarm.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by wonderworld]

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:19 AM by memoir

The plan commits $700 million to bolster Mexican law enforcement and crime prevention efforts. The funds will provide, among other things, five new helicopters to increase mobility for the Mexican army and air force as well as new surveillance aircraft for the Mexican navy.

from: www.cnn.com...

Why are we using $700 million to bolster Mexico? Why don't we bolster our own country?!

edit to add link and fix typo.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by memoir]

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:21 AM by traderjack

Originally posted by RussianScientists
reply to post by ModernAcademia

I just wonder how many of the Drug Lords in Mexico are Americans, and in which 3 letter government organization they work for.

There is a $2,000,000 dollar reward out right now by the Mexican government for the drug lords.

I don't understand why some former employees of our better SOGs don't hunt these ****ers down and collect the reward.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:25 AM by moonwilson

I wonder if it's "9 out of 10 guns that could be traced are traced back to the US". Or that "9 out 10 guns that could be traced were made in America".
Or "9 out of 10 guns that they tried to trace were traced back to America".
Mexico doesn't have much of an arms industry to speak of.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:31 AM by ChrisF231

reply to post by MikeboydUS

I agree Mike, possession of drugs with intent to sell or smuggling drugs across international borders should be a mandatory death sentence like in Singapore.

Legalizing drugs will solve NOTHING as the organized crime cartels will move on to something else. Take the Prohibition on Alcohol for example, when we repealed the 18th Amendment aka the Volstead Act in 1933 did the Mafia guys go oh well lets go straight and not break the law? NOPE, instead they moved on to other criminal ventures.

However, dead people commit no crimes. Kill their family members, kill their associates, leave them for last so they can # their pants everytime they close their eyes knowing that a US Army Special Forces trooper can call an airstrike to blow their villa back to kingdom come at any second.

Moonwilson - correct, Mexico does not have an internal arms industry as most of their weapons are imported. Their primary rifle is the German produced H&K G36 (which replaced the H&K G3A3) and I believe their primary pistol is the Italian produced Beretta 92 but I could be wrong.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by ChrisF231]

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:41 AM by on_yur_6

Originally posted by delta33
Cut the head off the snake and legalize drugs.

How about we really cut the head off the snake? Maybe a JDAM or two on every cartel location? Like other posters have said, this could be fixed if Mexico and the USA really wanted to take care of the problem.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:43 AM by on_yur_6

reply to post by MikeboydUS

We apparently think a lot alike.

I personally have friends that deploy to SA every year for recon on these drug lords. We could remove them from the gene pool if we wanted to.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:46 AM by RedDragon

reply to post by MikeboydUS

Then I'm sure you support making alcohol illegal again? And arresting + jailing all the people who produce it (budweiser employees, etc.) and distribute it (Wal-Mart employees, etc.)? And arresting and jailing all the people who consume it (~100% of college students)?

And I'm also sure that instead of trying to give alcohol and cigarette addicts professional help, you think sending them to prison against their will helps them more?

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:50 AM by slicobacon

So this makes no sense to me. They say 9 out of 10 guns recovered in Mexico are from America. So the Mexicans are coming to the US and paying retail price for semi auto guns to take back? Isn't it more plausible that most of the guns come from Central and South America were the full auto good stuff is dirt cheap?

Wayne Lapierre was on television the other night and said there is no factual evidence to even support the 9 out of 10 claim.

Be prepared - the old axiom of taking rights away to make us safer is going to change. Now our rights will be taken away to make other countries safer.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:53 AM by RedDragon

reply to post by on_yur_6

It wouldn't matter. Supply always meets demand. If you killed every drug dealer on the planet right now, more people would just fill up their jobs tomorrow.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:55 AM by RedDragon

reply to post by ChrisF231

If you legalized all drugs and prostitution, there's not much for them to move on to. They're not criminals for the hell of it; they're criminals for the profit.

IE if you legalize drug A, they just move on to the next most profitable drug. If all drugs are legalized, they're out of luck.

Also, remember the size of each drug's market. You can't create demand. If you legalize marijuana, the Mexican drug cartels, no matter what they move on to, have nothing to replace the size of that market. They'll still be around but they'll be much less powerful and smaller.

[edit on 3/24/09 by RedDragon]

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 11:55 AM by jibeho

reply to post by moonwilson

Good point.

If these cartels are getting heavy class III and beyond weapons, they are not getting them from the US.

How many of the cartel henchman have come out of Mexico's own corrupt military and law enforcement. I would strongly suspect that these weapons were reallocated from within these organizations by the same people who now work for the cartels. Additional weapons procurements could easily be made from Central America and various points south.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 12:01 PM by JohnHolmes

Originally posted by on_yur_6

Originally posted by delta33
Cut the head off the snake and legalize drugs.

How about we really cut the head off the snake? Maybe a JDAM or two on every cartel location? Like other posters have said, this could be fixed if Mexico and the USA really wanted to take care of the problem.

No, no, no, no, no. For the love of G*d, we do not need our military doing anything inside Mexico. In fact, we don't need our military doing anything but being home on OUR soil.

Sealing the border will not really have a big impact on the flow of drugs into the US - but it would be a good starting point. Then you use our intelligence and law enforcement resources to hunt down the scumbag drug cartels inside our borders. The resources we have are truly enormous and could be very effective if we want them to be. However, it seems as though Ron Paul supporters and the "evil" militias are taking priority right now. So what's that tell ya?

Politicians are either too stupid to be in office or totally corrupt. You make the call.

reply posted on 24-3-2009 @ 12:06 PM by 27jd

At least the mainstream media is not shying away from this subject anymore, this is on CNN right now, very good read....

Prohibition is a drain on the public purse. Federal, state and local governments spend roughly $44 billion per year to enforce drug prohibition. These same governments forego roughly $33 billion per year in tax revenue they could collect from legalized drugs, assuming these were taxed at rates similar to those on alcohol and tobacco. Under prohibition, these revenues accrue to traffickers as increased profits.

The right policy, therefore, is to legalize drugs while using regulation and taxation to dampen irresponsible behavior related to drug use, such as driving under the influence. This makes more sense than prohibition because it avoids creation of a black market. This approach also allows those who believe they benefit from drug use to do so, as long as they do not harm others.

Legalization is desirable for all drugs, not just marijuana. The health risks of marijuana are lower than those of many other drugs, but that is not the crucial issue. Much of the traffic from Mexico or Colombia is for cocaine, heroin and other drugs, while marijuana production is increasingly domestic. Legalizing only marijuana would therefore fail to achieve many benefits of broader legalization.

It is impossible to reconcile respect for individual liberty with drug prohibition. The U.S. has been at the forefront of this puritanical policy for almost a century, with disastrous consequences at home and abroad.

The U.S. repealed Prohibition of alcohol at the height of the Great Depression, in part because of increasing violence and in part because of diminishing tax revenues. Similar concerns apply today, and Attorney General Eric Holder's recent announcement that the Drug Enforcement Administration will not raid medical marijuana distributors in California suggests an openness in the Obama administration to rethinking current practice.
www.cnn.com...