Even atheists believe the Lies of Religion!

I'll def. take time to watch the movie tomorrow(procrastinates)

But don't you think it strange that a religion is trying to force it's way into my perception of reality?

Yes he speaks from the heart and he is bald=Awesome combo!

Just say religion was a hoax. k? Who is writing this fabricated and marvelous story? Why should I live by what he/she preaches?

I like the fact we can take other peoples actions and interpret them for ourselves. There are awesome life lessons to be learned that is the true face of religion, but turn it against it's user and that ruins the "summer of george"!

Originally posted by bbwena
I think religion is crap, but spirituality and science are avenues of endless discovery.

I'm gonna second you there....


Could you amplify the comment?


How can religion and science link? maybe here?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

more....

“Did you know (many) Scientists are afraid of the Bible?”

OK, now how many years ago did the prophet Isaiah live?

What about when the Psalms were written?

Was it after ‘Science’ discovered…that the earth was round? I don’t think so..?

Was it after ‘Science’ discovered…that the universe is expanding?

I don’t know…maybe…possibly…Isaiah could have had access to MyFly’s Dilourion (sp?) and jumped ahead in time…probably saw John Titor, had lunch, Italian, I think…and then secretly peeked at the Journal of Modern Science…took some notes…went back to Biblical times, wrote it down and was promoted to Old Testament Author?????

Skeptic, certainly this is mathematically possible….with enough TIME and CHANCE, right?

Well, let’s see what he wrote, ok?

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. - Isaiah 40:22

He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind. - Psalms 104:2-3

This is what God the Lord says — he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it. - Isaiah 42:5

The Lord speaking:
"It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts." - Isaiah 45:12

WoW! He knew the earth was round and the universe is expanding! Gee wise!

Certainly JOB had access to a telescope…He must have…right….because he claimed…that the Earth is suspended in emptiness, or space, which Job describes as "nothing." Chapter 26:7 says, "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." NEXT>>>

What about THE HYDROLOGIC CYCLE? OT, what does that mean? I don’t know…I’m thirsty, got to get a drink of water…I’ll be right back??? Water, huh? That’s it! en.wikipedia.org...

It’s all in the GOOD BOOK, folks!!! Who would a thunk it? Even the sphericity stuff too! Whew, this is a neat book!

"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind." - Job 36:27-28 "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight." - Job 26:8

The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. - Ecclesiastes 1:6-7

“Hey did you know Moses went to Oxford? Really, must have…he knew that the future fossil record prove plants were around before animals…”

“Really! That’s amazing OT!”

“ Ah, not me…I read it somewhere…"Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. - Genesis 1:11

And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." - Genesis 1:20 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. - Genesis 1:24 NEXT>>>>>

“OT, I thought the Bible was disproved by science?” “Yeah, I’ve heard that myth a few times, did you know the Bible agrees with science…it too says…that the first life appeared in the water…just like science………………….And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures..." - Genesis 1:20

Originally posted by CrlJester

Just say religion was a hoax. k? Who is writing this fabricated and marvelous story?

Right to the heart of the issue, you have gone!!!! Sorry for the yoda

See here for more info to chew on about the message...and it's reliability...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

excerpt....

“Jesus was a liar!!!!!”

That really is a logical option…please read on…

First of all, the longer I live the more I realize I don't know. Life is a bit more complicated than I thought it would be when I was in my 20/30's. I am a Christian, by that I mean I have chosen to believe that I am imperfect and needed His intervention.

I have come to this conclusion primarily upon LOGIC, not faith. Faith is one of those enigma's in today's vocabulary that has lost its meaning or has been interpreted differently by so many. My journey to this conclusion has a few factors that I will share with the forum/thread.



Point 1 ---- Again before I go on I will try and be LOGIC-based and not bring in a bunch of Christian-eze mumbo jumbo.

Remember Back to the Future and the Delorian (sp?) Imagine if you were Micheal J Fox and someone asked you to go to five (only 5) different time zones/geographical areas and meet one person in each time zone/area and ask them, "please write a book about God, I'll be back in 5 years to collect it."

Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree? What are the chances those five books would build upon one another? What are the chances you could make any semblance out of them...to live by or the like? Snowballs in your know where, right?

Different people! Different cultures! Difference Time frames! Different Premises! Different World view! etc...

Logically speaking you would have five unconnected books with five different perspectives, right?

Well, the Bible (torah, prophets, gospels, epistles, revelation) are not 5 books by five authors, but 66 books by 40 authors...who did not know one another, did not live in the same town, did not live in the same time line...authors were of every occupation and financial status........yet......the Bible is a one-themed, continuing story.

Doesn't prove it God's Word yet though...just something that might warrant another look.

Point 2 ---- Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God. Doesn't appear here to be different agendas going on. He said it, His followers said He said it, third parties said He said it and even his enemies said He said it (Sanhedrin, Pharisees, etc)

SO...with all that said...we have only two LOGICAL outcomes. No religious double-talk here) Either you BELIEVE or you REJECT. Really no other options right? If you believe, then to you HE IS LORD. If you REJECT there are really only two options for you.

1) JC knew he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LIAR

2) JC didn't know he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LUNATIC.

That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC of LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him.

Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.

Point 3 ---- Most direct followers were killed for believing in JC. If they had stole his body and the Romans excused, at least one of them would have squilled just before their execution right? I would have...

but NO-All these ordinary folks were willing to die for what they saw…

You thoughts ATS-ers?

THoughts? See yuo tomorrow, if it's too late...


Thanks for hanging in there!

Guys great start on the thread!!!!


OT's gotta go to sleep! Long day....

Keep um coming and I'll check back tomorrow...


ATS-ers, you ROCK!!!!!

Good night...

OT

reply to post by OldThinker

Hello, OT! Hope you're doing well.
I see you made another thread!

Anyways, back to the MESSAGE, and not the MESSENGER, shall we?

We in our Western nations have been made to believe some of these lies (as the Bible says); sometimes through religion, sometimes by the media.
But these "sources" of information are rarely honest; they twist certain things to make them
A) more appealing to certain people's preset beliefs
B) work for their goals

The goals part is interesting. No one can truly be SINCERE (sincerity, of course, is not always pertaining to facts; only to the person's individual "truth"), unless they get the information willfully. If people get the information willfully through their own means, they a bigger picture, as long as their not lazy

Forcing things that aren't certain (that don't change) into people's ears (I dislike the term shoving down throats: it doesn't really make sense) is immoral, especially when a negative aspect is placed onto the person who doesn't follow the forcer's words.

Was there a point to this point? Not really; just saying religion and the media has been used to "brainwash" people to delve away from the "truth" or certain aspects of it. I'm going to bed, too, OT.

PS: I have not read those links yet, I will try to remember tomorrow. Always a pleasure, OT.

reply to post by cancerian42


I like your quote. Mine fav is Emily Dickenson:

If I can stop one heart from breaking,
I shall not live in vain;
If I can ease one life the aching,
Or cool one pain,
Or help one fainting robin
Unto his nest again,
I shall not live in vain.
or
I shall pass through this world but once.
Any good, therefore, that I can show to any human being,
let me do it now.
Let me not defer nor neglect it,
for I shall not pass this way again."
~~Stephen Grellet~~

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I am not quite sure what you are getting at here, OT.

You want us to say we are all really christian at heart whether we want to be or not?

Or that we have believed these things at one point or another?

can you clarify please?

Thank you SO much for the first response!!!!


What I am getting at...IS stated very clearly in the OP...


Do you DISAGREE with any of the lies?

Do you AGREE with any of the lies?

Get back to me, ok?

OT curious...

OT

How about you start out an intelligent conversation with: Do you believe they are lies, or truths?

You automatically jump to an assumption that something is a lie, simply because you do not believe in it. There is a reason why belief in Religion, the Holy Book, and so forth is called "Faith", because without it, you obviously cannot come to terms with such.

Nothing in your posts 'OT' (as you love to call yourself) states any facts. You say Isaiah knew the universe was expanding and that the Earth was round before science did but your 'proof' is nothing but mystical text that could imply that the Earth was round, and I believe the prophet was talking about heaven stretching across above the Earth, not the theory that says galaxies are expanding away from each other because of the Big Bang.

To me, there doesn't seem to be any 'intelligent' conversation here, only people stating their opinions and you responding with a wise crack and a link to some evangelical christian propaganda. You only seem interested in proving your own posts correct by saying anyone who thinks or thought what your OP said was a lie or truth, no matter what, is a christian at heart.

Why can't I think christianity is wrong? Why can't I think it is a smorgasbord of pagan and Egyptian holidays and traditions? If you want to spend the rest of eternity licking the foot of some omnipotent god. Good for you!!!!!! I personally would like to have control over how I spend the rest of eternity, whether that be being the god of my own universe or being reincarnated as different things on Earth, IMO that, in the end, is better than what you believe.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by pointtech86]

[edit on 24-3-2009 by pointtech86]

reply to post by pointtech86



Well well! Struck a nerve, have I?

btw, welcome to ATS there pointtech86...

Hey , you can believe what you will..."God bless you" sorry for evoking that myth again

but seriously


Belief? Facts? Proof? Question...you love your children/parents/etc? PROVE IT! ooppss, not so clear now, huh?

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


Appreciate the lesson on post-writing...got an opnion on the "lies" of should I say OT's assumed things he doesn't believe in?

OT

Originally posted by flyindevil
......just saying religion and the media has been used to "brainwash" people to delve away from the "truth" or certain aspects of it. I'm going to bed, too, OT.

PS: I have not read those links yet, I will try to remember tomorrow. Always a pleasure, OT.

Forgot about the media...good point....certainly a few of my stated "lies" are pretty universally held at some point in peoples lives...like the good go up and the bad go down...

I'm gonna get a tad heavy here....that lie is from the pit of hell....that lie is a distraction of the deciever....

I guess I'd say that is THE CHEIF lie, in my opinion...

Now on a lighter note, you sleep well? I did

Looking forward to you response on the video/audio links posted earlier....and their are a few prior threads I've written tryin to answer some earlier visitors questions



Got to go to work...darn!!!

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Atheists are some of the funnier "religious" people out there. And I call them religious because even though they claim to believe in nothing, believing in nothing is still believing. It's a bit redundant if you ask me.

Dude, how on earth is no believing something a belief ?

BELIEF =
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2: something believed ; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
synonyms belief , faith , credence , credit mean assent to the truth of something offered for acceptance. belief may or may not imply certitude in the believer . faith almost always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof .

I don't believe what you believe means I simply, I don't entertain or accept whatever it is you believe.

You may well believe there's a monkey on my shoulder, you provide no proof and I can neither see hear or feel the monkey.

I do not believe the monkey is not on my shoulder, I observe there's no proof that there's a monkey on my shoulder.

This is not a belief ! this plain not accepting your belief , I recently had an xtian try and persuade me to my face that I have some sort of fandangled belief because he fails to provide evidence to prove his belief.

What the hell ! This is coming from a grown up who refuses to have acupuncture because it's some kind of witchery according to is belief system, yet the same person relies upon big pharma for his meds prescribed by an Islamic doctor!!

Dear god when will the insanity of xtian reasoning ever cease ?

Originally posted by pointtech86
Nothing in your posts 'OT' (as you love to call yourself) states any facts[/

To me, there doesn't seem to be any 'intelligent' conversation here,

Fair point, thanks...what would you like to discuss?

OT