Even atheists believe the Lies of Religion!

Originally posted by cancerian42
Interesting...I really hope this turns out well...I say it will.
So are you asking if I think these LIES were true at one time in history, or if I ever believed these LIES to be true? It sounds more like the first, but I don't want to play the game the wrong way so can you clarify please.

OK....


Not sure I understand the 'GAME' comment? You clarify first

OT

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


I think the everybody at some point will ask themselves the questions you pose, simply because it's so ingrained into our society at this point, that it's almost impossible not to ponder the question of an all powerful all knowing creator.

Yes, I've pondered the question.
I see no proof, no evidence for such a being.
I look all around me, I inquire, I have an open mind, I 'feel' and smell and love but I find the need for an all powerful all knowing creator superfluous.

reply to post by OldThinker

LOL sorry OT. got distracted.

Lie 1) The Good go to heaven, the bad go to hell.

I don't believe this. Never have. Even when I was a methodist. I don't believe you go to the corner when you are bad. If God is all loving, he doesn't banish someone to an eternity of suffering. Seems silly quite honestly. If there has to be an indeology followed I think the theory where people are removed from God's love, till their soul reaches a point to where they are ready to come home is much more feasible. That really "hell" is being removed from God's love, and is voluntary.
I am a reincarnationist. And you can't learn everything you need in one lifetime. learning patience, love, understanding, empathy, selflessness. It can take quite a few times. The more you learn, the more your soul becomes a part of God/Goddess. Till you become perfect and your soul melds with them. There is not punishment, but you have to stand before them and review your life.The harder your life is, the higher up on the evolutionary soul ladder you are, because it is a more intense lesson you gotta learn. Some reincarnationists theorize that Jesus was someone who did this quickly, and was almost perfect.
You sit with your Deities and your friends and plan your life, to incorporate the incidences that help you achieve your goals.

Lie 2) You can earn God’s favor/salvation with your good works

No. Because people can do good works just to try to earn brownie points so to speak, but with selfish intentions. Like making donations specifically for a tax break. or working at a charity for social status, or to make oneself look good. The heart has to be pure and it has to be selfless, to be legitimately for the welfare of others without expecting anything in return.

Lie 3) Christianity is a bunch of don’ts

I believe that since christianity offers redemption, people use it as a get out of jail free card. I find most christians to be hypocrites, or only christians on sunday. And their beliefs don't work into their everyday life. And they pick and choose what they want to follow. Also see number 2. They use it to control others.

Lie 4) Christianity is a made-up myth
Myth no, religion created by man. Yes. The very basis of christianity is a very good premise to live by. But has been warped and twisted to someone's agenda.

Lie 5) The Church is a building

Depends on the church. I think a "church" can be anywhere. God doesn't need steeples and expensive stained glass. But if those particular followers make them feel better, so be it. There is some beautiful architecture out there. But quite frankly, I think the money should go to the needy. And I don't believe the 10% of someone's hard earned salary should go to maintaining a fancy building.

Lie 6) If you are sincere, that’s all that matters.

Depends on sincere in what. If it is good things, then yes. If all you can do is give a loaf of bread to someone who really needs it, and all you can give is that loaf of bread, that is charity in the most sincere and giving form. YOu have to do it because you want too. Not because religion or belief dictates, only because you as a person want to genuinly help someone.

reply to post by OldThinker

Umm. After I answer the questions, then it's your turn to respond with a thought-provoking reply. I don't really see the point in this if it's not a game. Is the opening post all you wanted to tell us or not? If not then it's a game-if it is then this thread is pretty boring (no offense to you, but I like games).

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


I think the everybody at some point will ask themselves the questions you pose, simply because it's so ingrained into our society at this point, that it's almost impossible not to ponder the question of an all powerful all knowing creator.

Yes, I've pondered the question.
I see no proof, no evidence for such a being.
I look all around me, I inquire, I have an open mind, I 'feel' and smell and love but I find the need for an all powerful all knowing creator superfluous.

Glad you have pondered this, aorAki,

What are your thoughts, responses to this...?

Romans 1:20, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse"

Not trying to be wierd/religious on you, but this verse is penetrating to me....sorry for the bible, I'm just curious...?

btw, tothe10th, is a friend of mine...atleast online...

reply to post by nixie_nox




life does that to us... no prob...I'll get back to you...in a bit.

OT

Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Umm. After I answer the questions, then it's your turn to respond with a thought-provoking reply. I don't really see the point in this if it's not a game. Is the opening post all you wanted to tell us or not? If not then it's a game-if it is then this thread is pretty boring (no offense to you, but I like games).

?????


If the thread is boring...there are others out there...

OT

If you can't see the implications of believing the LIES in the OP....I dunno?

OT

PS: But please go ahead and give me your thoughts...and I'll respond...

THIS IS NO GAME to me...and to most...I think...

ETERNITY!

Heaven?

Hell?

etc...

What is MORE important?

Should I take a deep beadth?

OT a bit confused?????

reply to post by nixie_nox



Good, lengthy response...

Here's the crux...do you believe JC is of god?

Was his message for real?

And if 'he is'...could he not preserve his message to men/women/etc...?

Is that too much to ask of him?

OT

Shouldn't we be questioning the extremists like the Baptist church who is the only church I know of that goes around wishing harm on others. Well I'm sure there are other churches, let me make that correction before anyone whips the Quarn at me. Take a quick look at this! www.liveleak.com...

Just read some of those signs! This is what make people question religion. Most of the time.

Originally posted by cancerian42
Is the opening post all you wanted to tell us or not? .......

???

NO...

Have you ever known OT to shy away?

What else would you like me to respond to?

OT

Originally posted by CrlJester
Shouldn't we be questioning the extremists like the Baptist church who is the only church I know of that goes around wishing harm on others. Well I'm sure there are other churches, let me make that correction before anyone whips the Quarn at me. Take a quick look at this! www.liveleak.com...

Just read some of those signs! This is what make people question religion. Most of the time.

CJ, yes we should!!!

I did review the link...

OT knows many that think that way...

here's the ISSUE!!! They are immature!!!!

Don't give them a second of emotional energy...they do not speak for JC....here, see this 9 min video...this is what JC is about...please look it over and let me know your thoughts, ok?

Here... search.live.com...

Sorry I don't really see the implications of believing the "lies" in the op...but I will answer the questions as best I can.

Lie 1) The Good go to heaven, the bad go to hell.
I used to believe this.
Lie 2) You can earn God’s favor/salvation with your good works
I used to believe this.
Lie 3) Christianity is a bunch of don’ts
I never believed this.
Lie 4) Christianity is a made-up myth
I used to believe this.
Lie 5) The Church is a building
I never believed this.
Lie 6) If you are sincere, that’s all that matters
I think I might have believed this before, not positive.

By the way do you really believe they are lies or are you trying to say that the atheists believe they are lies? Confusing op. Oh and I think this really is a game...eternity and this thread too. Please give me something interesting. Thanks.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by cancerian42]

[edit on 23-3-2009 by cancerian42]

Originally posted by OldThinker
OT tries to keep his eyes on the MESSAGE, not those preaching the message...thay are frail/flawed...and imperfect.....

A wise thing itself, and wiser for deeds than words. Since we certainly are all human. Whether we do as they do or not, we are all as capable or not and given to faltering.

To me this is the truth and core of "Judge not, that ye not be judged." Since as it goes on to say...

Matthew 7
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

And so I've handily taken the yoke of "Bible quoter" from you this time since I know truth has no boundaries in walls or books or structures of any sort.

Don't think that I'm saying anything about you personally OT. I just thought I'd take the opportunity to place that out for those who may need it. And it just seemed appropriate at the moment.

Politic and religion is a cocktail I won't even touch let alone swallow or take shots of!

Bono?!! Okay grab the hand of the wealthy and inflate their ego.

Most of us have lost or have no moral stature, so much so that we wouldn't give an elderly women a second thought, should I help her cross the street or would I like to see her get splattered!

When I hear any politician speak the name of "god" or say their standing up for the christian church, I see their popularity pole go up! Christian followers will follow if their name is called just like a flock of sheep.

I could be their Shepard if I had some kind of unique power like a politician.

Insightful video, but the care for the poor speech has been the main topic that hit me. Do we help just to feel better about ourselves?

Did "god" ask. okay did you cloth the poor? Okay you can go, then what happens to the poor dude who used the cloths, hocked 'em for booze money or drugs? I'm not implying their all that way, but that's the logic behind them becoming poor in the first place.

Yes it is a vicious cycle.

reply to post by cancerian42


These statements are lies....that's it...


Lie 1) The Good go to heaven, the bad go to hell.

No, not biblical!


Lie 2) You can earn God’s favor/salvation with your good works

No, not biblical!

Lie 3) Christianity is a bunch of don’ts

No, not biblical!

Lie 4) Christianity is a made-up myth

No, I've got 20 threads addressing this...


Lie 5) The Church is a building

Good, not biblical!


Lie 6) If you are sincere, that’s all that matters


No not biblical...


C, I think you believe MORE of the bible than you ever realized...thoughts?

Has anyone read Paul Davies books? The Mind of God? The 5th Miracle? I find a scientifc approach to the discovery of a possible higher power to be a very interesting perspective. I think religion is crap, but spirituality and science are avenues of endless discovery.

reply to post by OldThinker

I said I used to believe some of them, not that I don't believe them now. I don't believe and I don't disbelieve (disbelief is in fact a belief). I have no stance because I believe all things are possible and that includes what is stated in the bible as being true or false.

Originally posted by bbwena
I think religion is crap, but spirituality and science are avenues of endless discovery.

You can really start to imagine the possibilities when you shed the religious poundage! Huh

Originally posted by CrlJester


Insightful video, but the care for the poor speech has been the main topic that hit me. Do we help just to feel better about ourselves?

....

Wow!

Sweet!!!
Thank you for taking the 9 minutes to see...I like the bald dudes heart....you?

If you are really interested and have an hour, listen to this sometime...Same guy, very funny...and very challengin as well... link here...see the ITS FRIDAY BUT SUNDAYS COMING streaming one, ok?

www.tonycampolo.org...

a bit on it...

It's Friday, But Sunday's Coming

Description: This message is Tony's trademark. He endeavors to show how surrendering to Christ enables individuals to have their personal, spiritual and psychological needs met. It goes on to point out that being yielded to Christ is to be part of a movement to change the world into the world that ought to be. This sermon picks up on the personal and social dimensions of the gospel

btw, appreciate your time here

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
Don't think that I'm saying anything about you personally OT. I just thought I'd take the opportunity to place that out for those who may need it. And it just seemed appropriate at the moment.

Absolutely, post/quote away....OT knows you are here for a reason, fosho!

OT got thick-skin!!!!!! must have GROWN there...ha! ha!