What legal knives do the UKer's here carry?

reply to post by Nirgal


I thought that was the real reason the 'Life Centre' was built in Newcastle...to clone Alan Shearer and Gazza to create a GM footy team?

reply to post by citizen smith


*Appalling attempt at getting back on topic*

There happens to be quite a nice shop across the road from the Life Centre that sells crossbows and the like. Two or three camping shops in town as well. Oh, while I'm at it there's a place in Grainger Market where you can get bulk food items such as cereals and broth mixes.

The tea kiosk is awesome.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by Anuubis
Wow. You guys have some screwed up laws. I am so glad i don't live there. Here i can walk around with my rifle, my pistol, and or my Ka-bar with no legal repercussions.

We also get stopped or questioned sometimes for carrying anything that resembles a weapon, like a screwdriver or somthing.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by _Phoenix_]

I can understand why you'd carry a screwdriver from what others and you have said on here. It seems Parliament has a lot of loose screws

reply to post by CX


Many peopel have replied already but i thought i'd throw this in even though it's a repeat.

The law states you can carry a 3inch, folding knife that doesn't lock. However the police can still arrest you if you carry such an item without needing it. Like if i walk into a pub with it, get stopped and searched i'm going to be in troble if the copper is in a bad mood and looking to arrest someone. I won't get a simple slap on the wrist, i'll be taken to the station, fingerprinted, DNA taken and locked up.

It annoys the hell out of me because i've been in situations where a knife would be seriously handy, not violent ones just general life. A knife is a damn handy thing to have around, it's why it was one of the earliest tools invented!

So anyway yes, the law states you can carry that 3inch, folding, non lockable knife, but it's down the the officers discretion as to whether you are ok to carry it. I almost got arrested for carrying a pruning knife!

To be clear, a pruning knife is a folding knife, under 3 inches, not lockable (at least the one i had didn't lock) and has a curved end so it couldn't be used for stabbing. Yet i spent a good half an hour talking to a police officer, explaining i had been pruning plants at my fathers allotment and forgot i had it on me. Even though that knife is well within the law i got serious trouble over it. I was lucky not to be arrested as i thought to phone my father and hand the phone over to the police so my dad could verify i had been pruning stuff at the allotment.

The fact we have to be so scared carrying such a simple tool is a blinking neon sign of the problems we have.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by CX

 

The fact we have to be so scared carrying such a simple tool is a blinking neon sign of the problems we have.

A blinking neon sign to some, a big fluffy duvet for others.

Personally, it's a great big frog-marching gun in the back.

Originally posted by Nirgal

A blinking neon sign to some, a big fluffy duvet for others.

Personally, it's a great big frog-marching gun in the back.

I said to the officers that searched me that it was ridiculous, they didn't like that and made sure to verify who i was. I mean i don't believe they have any right to ask who i am anyway unless I've committed a crime or am suspected of it, this was a random stop and search. However t avoid being arrested i gave them my name and address. I didn't enjoy doing that but i was on the way to see a girl and........... well anyway.

Point being that this random stop and search thing is disgusting. It's not a far stretch to say that this is just like the leading years up to Hitlers Germany. I know many might see that as an extreme point of view but when citizens, who are doing nothing wrong are randomly stopped and searched you do have to worry.

I guess most people will walk on and even thank the officers for protecting them.

[

Point being that this random stop and search thing is disgusting. It's not a far stretch to say that this is just like the leading years up to Hitlers Germany. I know many might see that as an extreme point of view but when citizens, who are doing nothing wrong are randomly stopped and searched you do have to worry.

More like the old soviet system than the nazis, East Germany was more liberal and open than the UK is today, and its all down to people who voted Labour.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
More like the old soviet system than the nazis, East Germany was more liberal and open than the UK is today, and its all down to people who voted Labour.

Well i didn't vote labour or conservative. The problem we have, just like the USA and other countries have is that there are only really two parties that get the attention. The UK public don't hear much from the smaller parties, it's all about labour and the conservatives with the liberals trying to get some attention by jumping up and down on a pogo stick behind the big boys.

The smaller parties just do not get a look in during general elections.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Northern Raider
More like the old soviet system than the nazis, East Germany was more liberal and open than the UK is today, and its all down to people who voted Labour.

Well i didn't vote labour or conservative. The problem we have, just like the USA and other countries have is that there are only really two parties that get the attention. The UK public don't hear much from the smaller parties, it's all about labour and the conservatives with the liberals trying to get some attention by jumping up and down on a pogo stick behind the big boys.

The smaller parties just do not get a look in during general elections.

Modern society is based on one single principle IE whats in it for me, and in the UK thats the social state, which ever lying git promises to give them more dole, more council tax rebates, more benefits etc etc gets the vote, they are just to greedy and two dumb to realise for every £1 they give in handouts they take £10 in taxes now the whole rotten pile of cards is collapsing. Its the social welfare state to blaim its been a disaster from day one. Now its all going to fall on our children who face debts in the billions to be paid off. I'm voting for one of the smaller and generally unpopular parties because they promise to at least stem the wave of migration to the UK.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
Modern society is based on one single principle IE whats in it for me, and in the UK thats the social state, which ever lying git promises to give them more dole, more council tax rebates, more benefits etc etc gets the vote, they are just to greedy and two dumb to realise for every £1 they give in handouts they take £10 in taxes now the whole rotten pile of cards is collapsing. Its the social welfare state to blaim its been a disaster from day one. Now its all going to fall on our children who face debts in the billions to be paid off. I'm voting for one of the smaller and generally unpopular parties because they promise to at least stem the wave of migration to the UK.

You need to change your sig to 'Kilroy (Silk) woz ere'

At least the perma-tan may help as camouflage when out in the field

Guys please dont flame me but this info is to help you:

If you are stopped in a public place and found to be carrying a non locking knife of 3" or less then if plod want to arrest you then THEY have to proove that you have it for an illegal act. The law permits you to carry a 3" non locking blade as is, no reason for carrying it other than you want to. If they nick you then please INSIST on a duty brief being called.

There are seperate offences for carrying an off wep and Im not dealing with those as we are discussing the legality of just carrying a blade.

A locking knife (blade length doesnt matter!!), is treated as a fixed blade and if you are stopped (in a public place - a public place is ANY where that the public have access, even if a fee has been paid) then YOU have to have reasonable cause to be carrying it. Saying it is for sharpening your pencil or cutting your apple up as you have dodgy teeth will not be deemed reasonable and you are likely to be nicked, it will then be down to YOU to proove to a court that you had good reason.

If you use a locking blade as part of your work then you will need to proove that.

Stop and Search - If Police didnt stop and search then a lot of scrotes would not be nicked, its as simple as that, a fishing trip. Not nice but a necessity.

When I was in "the Job" general stops followed GOWISE

The Officer required:

G= Grounds for the search
O= Object of the search
W= Display warrant card if not in uniform
I= Identify themselves
S= Station they are attached to
E= Your entitlement to a copy of the stop slip

Grounds could be that the area in general is frequented by scrotes who break into motor vehicles.
Object of the search would be to see if the person had objects on their person ie Going Equipped
Warrant - self explanatary
Identify - self explanatary
Station - self explanatary
Entitlement to the search slip, ask for it and take it!

As ex-job Im biased but have dealt with plod since Ive been out that need a personality transplant and injection of common sense.

However, bear in mind that if you are stopped, plod will be wary of you, he or she does not know your intentions. So be polite, and if you are carrying then advise them in advance if they say they are going to search you. If you dont tell them and they find it they will be a little upset. If you are arrested then ALWAYS ask for the duty brief, even though you may think you dont need one because you are law abiding. Yes your expereince may take longer but still ask for the duty brief.

I did 7yrs with the Met and if I was to be nicked Id ask for legal rep.

"They" have a unique piece of legislation is you fail the attitude test, its called "The Ways & Means Act insert year"

Hope these points have helped a little.

On a personal note, Labour have crippled our Country, and we are a nanny state, our forefathers laid down their lives for us and would turn in their graves if the could see what this great country has become.

Rgds



[edit on 28/3/09 by Dark Vengeance]

[edit on 28/3/09 by Dark Vengeance]

Originally posted by Dark Vengeance
A locking knife (blade length doesnt matter!!), is treated as a fixed blade and if you are stopped (in a public place - a public place is ANY where that the public have access, even if a fee has been paid) then YOU have to have reasonable cause to be carrying it. Saying it is for sharpening your pencil or cutting your apple up as you have dodgy teeth will not be deemed reasonable and you are likely to be nicked, it will then be down to YOU to proove to a court that you had good reason.

Thanks for the tip DV

Its a bugger as I'd just bought a new blade for a fiver, a 3 1/2" locker, but I'll be keeping that with the camping gear and go looking for another one that complies with regs as an EDC.

Just out of interest, if i'd been stopped and searched, and prior to a search of my bag, asked by the officer "is there anything I should know about in here?" and I declared it...would it be looked on more favourably for having it in a secured carry-pouch in the bottom of my bag as opposed to being carried loose in my pocket?

My line of thinking is that I would have to take off my rucksack, open the top, and would have to be rummaged for amongst the rest of the stuff I usually carry, rather than pulled out of my back pocket and the blade flicked open...a difference in an action taking several minutes as opposed to seconds

reply to post by citizen smith



I cant answer for every plod, but if I was carrying out a routine stop and search, and you were polite (no need to lick bums, just treat others as youd like to be treated), and the item was secured as you explained etc etc then my common sense would prevail and I'd thank you for your time and move on.

I nicked a younster once who was rowdy in a romford night club, he was carrying a 4" lock knife and a small packet of white powder under his belt buckel. Should I have let him off for the knife bit?? Common sense is what is needed. If you have to think hard for an excuse to carry a blade then really, should you be carrying one at all?

Rgds


[edit on 28/3/09 by Dark Vengeance]

What you're saying is wisdom dark.

The trouble is a lot of coppers don't seem to show that and are a less even-handed bunch.
Having this nanny-state bs means that we survivalists are at the complete mercy of these gray areas like knife ownership and carrying them.

The 'locking-blade' ban is total lunacy and nonsense.
I've got to carry a blade for my work (as a rigger) and some installations will ban knives that AREN'T lock-blades as they are down-right dangerous to use in some situations.

One of the reasons I left the forces was the bone-headed 'blanket punishments' meted to everyone; if one person screws up through their own fault then the whole section / platoon / squad gets punished along with them.

The same in Britain now, knife-wielding thugs cause aggro, responsible people get tarred with the same brush by the law-makers. WTF?!

It seriously psses me off cause, like NR says, individuals ought to be recognised not the masses.
I understand that a judge will ultimately decide but that individual will be made to feel like a criminal.

These laws only apply (unless you're seriously unlucky) to places inside city/town limits. In fact most of the non-common law statutes (neo-laws) concern towns and cities. For most of us non-SitX this will not be a problem so for me the kukri stays in the BOB

For the definition of a public place is a very strange one, along with general public. In the UK areas away from urban landscapes are not considered public places. Nature reserves, the wilderness are not public places. Although in Nordic countries they are.

[edit on 28-3-2009 by WatchRider]

reply to post by WatchRider


WR you are of course correct, our nanny state was one of the reasons why I handed in my warrant card, too much political correctness and to be honest I was getting to the point that I didnt like what I was becoming.

Let common sense prevail and let us all be responsible with whatever we choose to carry.

Nature Reserves etc- If the public have ready access then Im afraid they are public places in the eyes of the law. Its a bit like stores/shops, you are invited into the premises for the purpose of viewing/purchasing goods. However, the store can withdraw their invitation and you then become a trespasser. Whilst trespass is generally a civil matter it becomes criminal if you are trespassing with a weapon etc... So technically plod could nick you for having a big sharped object even whislt camping. However, you would prove that you had good reason to have your big pointy object and therefore had reasonable excuse. Again its common sense.

More food for thought: If you carry a BOB every day and get a tug, and your BOB carries a fixed blade or lock knife etc And your reasonable excuse is that you are waiting for STHTF then you may well find yourself in big poo poo. Average plod will not accept waiting for a six x as reasonable excuse.

Rgds






[edit on 29/3/09 by Dark Vengeance]

[edit on 29/3/09 by Dark Vengeance]

Originally posted by Dark Vengeance
More food for thought: If you carry a BOB every day and get a tug, and your BOB carries a fixed blade or lock knife etc And your reasonable excuse is that you are waiting for STHTF then you may well find yourself in big poo poo. Average plod will not accept waiting for a six x as reasonable excuse.

DV, what would be the most justifiable reason you can think of to be carrying if you were unfortunate enough to be asked to turn out your BoB and your locking-blade discovered, that wouldn't result in arrest/immediate confiscation of the item?

I suppose it comes down to 'profiling' as the only occaisions that I have ever had any dealings with the police on the street, is when I have looked somewhat chav-like

Thats a hard one CS, Guess I was on my way wild camping etc, would need to know the venue etc or I was going to a friends house and then onto a camp site. (Friend needs to agree with this).

Sharps would be packaged away nicely in my rucksack.

An example:

Fred loads up his car with his camping/fishing stuff, includes a big sharpy thing. Gets tugged on his way. Explains where he is going, plod thank him and he is on his way.

At the end of his trip he gets home and unloads his stuff but forgets to remove the large pointy object. He then pops out to the off license later that evening and gets a tug, plod see the pointy thing and he is questioned. Sensible plod listens, gives words of advice and lets Fred on his way. BUT if silly plod had tugged him he would have been nicked.

What Im trying to explain rather poorly is that if you have a reasonable excuse it may not cover you 24/7.

I only carry non lockers less than 3" for EDC and my GHB because they are in public places whenever I am.... My Bob, with my fixed blade and lock knife, saw etc is on private property until needed.

Rgds

What about if you carry a penkinfe with a locking blade but you use it a lot for opening things, cutting string/rope etc. Could you get away with that as you are not carrying it for work purposes?

-Cauch1

reply to post by Cauch1


Fraid not, a 3" or less non locking knife would suffice.

Not a one liner

Rgds

To Dark Vengence
I have a thorny one on this topic I know you have to have a good reason for carrying a locking blade in a public place and I have a reason I wish to carry a particular type of knife which is purely for the handle. If you was still serving with the met would you consider a good reason for carrying a rescue knife glass breaker in the hilt belt cutter plus semi serated rescue blade (to describe the knife) as being I am a licensed first aider and carry the knife purely for if I am first response to a R.T.A if I need to get someone out of a Vehicle in a hurry due to fire risk from a fuel leak. I always carry my first aid license on me to show in case I am needed in emergency situations. Would that be a reasonable justification for carrying such a knife or would I be better to remove the main blade safely and just carry the handle? P.S. in this situation I would carry it within My first aid kit which I always carry with Me (the first aid kit that is) I treat a first aid kit like a condom I would rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one