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John Lear on Coast to Coast AM 3/23/09

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posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by observe50
 


Anything John Lear says is useless for the serious study of the UFO phenomena.

It's like the Bible - while we can't dismiss the possibility that some of the stories in there have some basis on a real event that actually happened, they've been so distorted, exaggerated and mistranslated that the information is completely unreliable.

Even though John Lear might be an entertaining person to listen to, the UFO field doesn't need any more entertainment, on the contrary.

And his tales have, in all likelihood, irreversibly damaged the field. We still hear and see today the BS about human-eating ETs, ~80 species of aliens visiting Earth, Dulce, etc.

We need to get rid of the John Lears of the field if we want the research to go anywhere, and be taken seriously by mainstream media, people and science.




posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by converge
Anything John Lear says is useless for the serious study of the UFO phenomena.

Hello converge,,

In John's defense, I'd just like to quote his own words when it comes to UFOs;


I have actually said very little about flying saucers.

My subjects are usually:

A Navy submarine base in the Nevada desert.
A breathable atmosphere on the moon.
A civilization on the moon.
The secret base at Sandia.
A high speed train from Sandia to a Las Vegas hotel.
Ten U.S. secret space stations orbiting earth with directed energy weapons one of which was used to destroy the World Trade Center.
People living on Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
A 4th astronaut killed in Apollo 1.
No planes on 911.
A shadow government composed of Nazi/Masonic/Dod/militaryindustrialists.


www.thelivingmoon.com...

So in essence, John never claimed to be an expert in the field of UFOs, and at least for me personally, I don't consider him so much a UFOlogist, and I've never seen him make such a claim. I see him as a guy who focuses mainly on lunar and solar system anomalies and such.

Peace


[edit on 24/3/09 by Majorion]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by Majorion
So in essence, John never claimed to be an expert in the field of UFOs


And that never stopped him from making these outrageous claims that he made/makes.



I see him as a guy who focuses mainly on lunar and solar system anomalies and such.


He did in the mid 80s when he appeared on the scene. Perhaps now he doesn't talk much about UFOs, I don't really know as I don't really pay any attention to him.

I wouldn't be surprised if he has recanted many of the things he has said, as being contradictory and making outrageous & unfounded claims have been the only constants in Lear's UFO-related career.

Some might not remember, or never looked into his claims and his history in the field, but some of us will not forget the BS he has spewed over the years.

How many of you know about the claim of 2 billion aliens living inside the mountains along US Route 93? Yeah...

Bottom line is that John Lear has never once provided any evidence to back up his claims. For some believing is enough, and that's a shame - it's those people that turn the UFO field into a pseudo-religion.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by converge
Bottom line is that John Lear has never once provided any evidence to back up his claims.

While I disagree with many if not most of John's theories, beliefs, and claims.. he has presented his case very well at times, and does provide evidence, see;

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Lot's of material to check out over there. Go to John Lear's page and you'll see.

I'd like to add that most of the other so called 'researchers' and ufologists out there; have yet to match the way John presents his case. Most of the ufologists I've seen provide no evidence other than either their own personal opinion, or offering their own analysis of age-old documents and UFO investigations (Bluebook, etc..). In addition, JL would almost always give references for his beliefs, like for example, he believes that there is an artificial craft in the rings of Saturn.. he references a book called "The Ringmakers of Saturn" by Norm Bergman (I think his name is)..

Anyhow, bottom line is that John is hardly the person people should be pointing fingers at, because there are so many hoaxers and charlatans in the field of UFOlogy.. I don't think he's trying to deceive or con anyone. Whether you agree with him or not, he's telling the truth as he sees it.

Peace



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by Majorion
So in essence, John never claimed to be an expert in the field of UFOs, ..


I don't think he's an expert in anything except manipulating his audiences.

I find him quite a sad chap actually.....harmless and polite(ish) but sad.

(Hi John)



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by Majorion
Most of the ufologists I've seen provide no evidence other than either their own personal opinion ...

... he believes that there is an artificial craft in the rings of Saturn.. he references a book called "The Ringmakers of Saturn" by Norm Bergman (I think his name is)


Isn't that exactly the same thing you've just criticized about most ufologists? Lear is claiming something based on a book someone wrote (someone's opinion)?



I don't think he's trying to deceive or con anyone. Whether you agree with him or not, he's telling the truth as he sees it.


I respect your belief that John Lear is not deceiving anyone, but I will not give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.

And what exactly does telling the truth has he sees it mean? For example, what do you think of John saying that ATS is being run by intelligence agencies?

Is that John telling the truth as he sees it?


[edit on 24-3-2009 by converge]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by converge
Isn't that exactly the same thing you've just criticized about most ufologists? Lear is claiming something based on a book someone wrote (someone's opinion)?

No, it is not the same thing. What I was critical of in regards to most ufologists, is that they will discuss and analyze the same old stuff again and again endlessly, without progressing the subject or moving us forward. They will analyze the same cases, the same reports, the same old public investigations of UFOs like the condon report, or project bluebook, etc..
I haven't read the book I mention, but from what I know, it is not a simple tell-tale opinion of an author, the book provides actual data and information pertaining to an alleged artificial object in the rings of Saturn. Now, do I personally believe that there is an artificial object in the rings of Saturn?.. No. But I almost certain, that if anyone were to read that book carefully page by page, then they would be very convinced of the case the author presents, or at least, would be very compelled. How is that the same thing, as you say?


I respect your belief that John Lear is not deceiving anyone, but I will not give him the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Likewise, I respect your belief. But no one has forced you to believe a word he says anyhow. And from what I've seen, most people share your opinion on this issue, I'm simply trying to present the opposite case here. John is not here to defend himself unfortunately.


And what exactly does telling the truth has he sees it mean? For example, what do you think of John saying that ATS is being run by intelligence agencies?

It means that anything he says/claims concerning his beliefs, is not him lying or attempting to deceive anyone. He really believes what he says.. and as I was saying earlier.. I myself don't agree with most of what he says either.. but IMO, he is being sincere. I've also talked to people who know him very well, and they believe he is a sincere person just as I do, even though they disagree with much of what he believes.

I have seen only one interview where John speaks of ATS in relation to intelligence agencies. And I don't recall him making any direct accusations of the ATS owners/staff being cointelpro. Even if he did, I wouldn't share his opinion. However, there are certain relevant facts about this issue that I know of; which I won't mention here on the boards. Hope this clarifies some of the things being discussed.

Peace



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Majorion
 


Majorion - are you JL?

Anyway, I listened to a C2C show where it was Richard C Hoagland disagreed with John's theory of an atmosphere on the moon. Richard points out the fact that because stars do not twinkle when they disappear behind the moon is evidence it has no atmosphere?

R C Hoagland (imo) is a credible person, however even if JL was just 1% correct...thats enough for me (to a certain degree). I think you get my point.

Its JL work and RCH work, threads and videos that brought me to ATS. If that works for a few then GREAT.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by converge
And what exactly does telling the truth has he sees it mean? For example, what do you think of John saying that ATS is being run by intelligence agencies?


Not quite true...it's run by intelligence agencies AND the regular staff TOGETHER. That way, there is always room for plausible deniability.


His truth...little by little...just to get you hooked, and he often says he's only presenting "evidence" and we must make up our own minds and find out for ourselves.

He also knows none of us will ever go to the moon.


(hi john)

[edit on 24/3/2009 by nerbot]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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I find him quite a sad chap actually.....harmless and polite(ish) but sad.


Perhaps I could say the same about you, nerbot.



Originally posted by nerbot
I don't think he's an expert in anything except manipulating his audiences.


John is an expert in quite a few things, probably a good idea to know who it is you are going to slander before you insert foot in mouth.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by YourForever
Perhaps I could say the same about you, nerbot.



Perhaps....but maybe you don't know me as well as I know Mr Lear.



John is an expert in quite a few things


He WAS an expert pilot but doesn't fly anymore.

Please enlighten us as to what he is an expert at/in, other than BS and storytelling.


[edit on 24/3/2009 by nerbot]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 08:33 AM
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I believe JL to be quite intelligent on this subject.

edit because I could and to delete what you didn't really need to know.









[edit on 25-3-2009 by observe50]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by nerbot
 


You find JL a 'sad' individual? He's been given every FAA certificate possible. what have you done?

No one has made less money from UFOlogy than John Lear. He gives is audience the option to not believe him quite frequently. Hardly 'manipulative', as you say.

At least give some solid points to back your points up. Sad.



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by davidifty

Majorion - are you JL?


ROFLMAO!!!



Originally posted by davidifty
Anyway, I listened to a C2C show where it was Richard C Hoagland disagreed with John's theory of an atmosphere on the moon. Richard points out the fact that because stars do not twinkle when they disappear behind the moon is evidence it has no atmosphere?

R C Hoagland (imo) is a credible person, however even if JL was just 1% correct...thats enough for me (to a certain degree). I think you get my point.

Its JL work and RCH work, threads and videos that brought me to ATS. If that works for a few then GREAT.


JL has repeated over and over that he seeks the truth and believes for him, not anyone else. Even RCH does not force his work or belief onto anyone. Your right, both are credible people with their own portfolio of recognized history, far more credible and verfiable than most of the other bozo researchers out there who tend to focus more on selling t-shirts and DVD's then tell you their material is free.


Cheers!!!!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by nerbot
He WAS an expert pilot but doesn't fly anymore.


Since when does retirement declare one to no longer be an expert?

If JL wanted to, and was physically up to it, he could step into any aircraft and fly you around the world with the windows completely blocked and wearing those limited view goggles so he only sees the flight instruments and get you there and back in one piece.


Originally posted by nerbot
Please enlighten us as to what he is an expert at/in, other than BS and storytelling.


JL has already proven himself as an expert aviator. He might tell tall tales but so do professional fishermen who tell their own fish stories.

Does that rule out either of the two are no longer experts in their field because they tell a story or two?

Cheers!!!!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 

Yes, it's unfortunate isn't it?.. what people will say behind his back..

you know, he posts at Open Minds Forum.. if anyone has something they wanna say.. go say it to his face over there.




posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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In a strange way dear old John Lear reminds me a great deal of David Icke. Both reveal extraordinary details of a world just out of reach of most of us. They back up their claims, usually, with facts but then both mess it all up by saying something ridiculous at the last minute. Icke says we are being ruled by lizards and Lear says there is a spirit catcher on the moon.
Should we really take him seriously? I don't think I do anymore. . .



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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Actually the Grey's are within the Moon and yes SOULS are recycled when they need to be recycled to any location in the Universe that needs help at some time and in some way.

The Soul within me has been recycled here (I agreed to help you people??????) this human race when the time comes. It's coming and it isn't going to be pretty!



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Majorion
Yes, it's unfortunate isn't it?.. what people will say behind his back..
you know, he posts at Open Minds Forum.. if anyone has something they wanna say.. go say it to his face over there.


No disrespect but I've never seen you come in the defense of anyone else in the UFO field whom people talk "behind their backs" here on ATS; and the things said in this thread about him, are nothing compared to some of the things that are said of other people.

And besides they aren't out of line. This is a discussion forum, this is a thread about John Lear, so I think his claims and their validity are much on topic.

But why this adoration of John Lear? And this is not just directed at you Majorion. Yes, Lear was probably a great pilot but what does that have to do with the validity of his claims?

Does being a good pilot lend more credibility to the claim of 2 billion aliens living inside mountains in Nevada? How about the claim of the driver being JFK's assassin? Or that there are 80 different species of aliens visiting Earth? Or that ATS is being run by the intelligence agency?


[edit on 25-3-2009 by converge]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by converge
No disrespect but I've never seen you come in the defense of anyone else in the UFO field whom people talk "behind their backs" here on ATS; and the things said in this thread about him, are nothing compared to some of the things that are said of other people.

Maybe so, but I have a soft spot for John
.. He used to be a member here btw, and I've seen him give his heart and soul to this website and many of his fans, till this day he still always finds time to answer questions and discuss stuff on chat and many forums with people, and they still always give him an incredibly hard time. And some of the things said about him here are just unwarranted to be honest.. like this for example;


Originally posted by nerbot
I don't think he's an expert in anything except manipulating his audiences


Well nerbot
, why don't you go back to see any of his available threads here, and prove how he's a manipulative person.. and why exactly would he care to manipulate you or anyone else? .. he shares his opinions and beliefs, doesn't he have the right to an opinion?.. many of his claims/beliefs are very controversial.. that's why so many people hate him. You don't have to accept a word he says anyhow.

Back to you converge
.. another thing, most people are just critical of the usual ufologists, show me an example of people saying worse things about them rather than John.. I respectfully disagree.. I don't think I've ever seen anyone put up with as much BS as JL does on almost a daily basis. Just mention his name and you get 10 people telling you how much they hate him and want him dead.


Originally posted by converge
And besides they aren't out of line. This is a discussion forum, this is a thread about John Lear, so I think his claims and their validity are much on topic.

Sure they are.. and I told you before that I respect your beliefs, at least you have provided your reasoning; contrary to nerbot. I'm just here to defend him, to present the opposite view.. what's wrong with that? .. I am also very much on-topic.


Originally posted by converge
But why this adoration of John Lear? And this is not just directed at you Majorion. Yes, Lear was probably a great pilot but what does that have to do with the validity of his claims?

I haven't said that his claims are valid, in fact I've already said more than once that I personally disagree with many of his beliefs. However contrary to most other so called 'researchers'.. he does back up his claims.. I have already discussed this with you.


Originally posted by converge
Or that ATS is being run by the intelligence agency?

I have already addressed this issue as well. As for the other claims you're questioning.. again, you have every right to your own opinion, as is JL very much entitled to his own. You don't have to believe a word he says.

Peace




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