Religion myth too hard a pill for most to swallow

Hey friends,

Don't know how any of you feel on religion, but after seeing Zeitgeist, I've grown more secure in the way I've been feeling most of my life...In 6th grade, I grew a strong interest for history and learned about greek mythology and how egyptians worshipped gods of all sorts. But the different gods that they worshipped were only personification of natural objects, or human emotions, things that they did not understand. I grew up feeling that it resembled christianity greatly..But growing up black and in the south it was unheard of to question christianity or not go to church so I 'flowed' with the program into adulthood. As an adult some things happened in my life and since I had no explaination , I got into religion, Christianty...heavily....I was bible toting, scripture quoting, as they say....then my oldest brother would make fun of me (in a nice way) and we sat and debated and needless to say, he had validity in what he was saying...he actually had so much validty that I began to research and read and 'think outside the box'...I realized that I was tapping into what I believed all my life from childhood about it being more symbolic than literal. Now i engage in religius debates and the other person usually is so frustrated that we fall out...I made them peek outside the box and they were uncomfortable. ....
just looking for encouragement and/or advice

If they seemed uncomfortable with you, it most likely wasn't because you had proven that God is a myth, but that you were trying to shove your beliefs down their throats. People hate it when Christians try to shove religion down their throats so naturally a Christian or any other religion that believes in God will hate having these "there is no God" beliefs shoved down theirs. To those of us who do believe in God, what your kind is doing is revolting to us.

BTW...God and religion are two seperate things. I realize that you meant that you have some sort of undeniable proof that God does not exist and so that is what I based my answer on, but if I were to take your title literally...I can prove to you without any shadow of a doubt that religion does exist. A religion doesn't even need to have a god or God, it can have a moon goddess, or any other entity.

My proof that religion is not a myth...you ever see a church, mosque, or synagogue? They also have books, rituals, music, and other things. The world is full of religions. Myself, I don't practice a religion, I just believe in God and in Jesus so I identify myself as Christian, a follower of Christ.

Oh, I have looked outside the box and what I saw was revolting.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by ahimsa]

reply to post by Butter Cookie


So do you still believe in the Bible, just in a more symbolic sense or do you not believe in God or the Bible at all?
We all have our comfort zone, and many Christians get uncomfortable just at the thought of God not existing.
This is how they are trained to think. I've experienced it first hand.
Every time you think of something outside the box of religion, you feel guilty for even thinking it, so you 'terminate' the thought.
It's this lack of exploring possibilities that makes it so difficult for a Christian to change his/her view...

reply to post by ahimsa


I've heard that plenty of times, that Christianity is a 'personal relationship with God' and not a religion.
You can call it whatever you want, but it's still a religion...

Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


Sounds like Christianity to me

Religion is all about the sciences of the antiquity. Astrolononomy psychology, medicine, math, cosmology.... They made these books as compressed Mao's little reds. One system to explain it all. To understand it takes an effort, but it's not really hard.

I think the first poster is correct in saying that most people, when having their beliefs challenged will get very frustrated and not want to debate with you.

This is because most people don't realize that a debate is the challenging of a belief for another. Myself I was religious in my youth, not out of choice, my parents are Roman Catholics.

However I found that personnaly, submitting to an ideal that's over 3000 years old, which may or may not have been altered for some people's specific benefit, did not seem logical to me.

I preach the gospel of I dont' know, because truly I don't, and nobody else does, as much as they think they do, they simply don't.

We can't possibly understand the idea of God, it's far too complex for any one person to grasp, let alone interpret it's desires and rules. Organized Religion has made a joke out something that at one time was a very good driving force of ideals and lessons that promoted peace.

There are simply too many coicidences and similarities in all religions that none of them can really be taken that seriously, without thinking at some point that you might be wrong.

And for me, if I were to believe in God as Christians today, there would only be one thing that would anger him more than not believing in him, and that would be believing in a lie.

~Keeper

Keep at it. God is what you make him to be, but he is everyone. In other words, every single person is an individualization of god. It is all a matter of how much you decide to open yourself up to that individualization. Now, there is the creator, which is the being that has his own consciousness and he is the one who actually operates the cosmos. The reason why we are here is so that he can experience the cosmos.

God doesn't control anyone directly, yes. But he is present in every single person on Earth. The only thing god wants of people is for them to create. He wants people to create the grandest thing they can imagine that brings them the highest experience possible. That means he wants you to create your highest desire, nothing less.

Some people do not realize this. They think that god should destroy all evil over night and what not. But the people who are evil are essentially blind. They have disregarded their ability to create and thus destroy. That is what hell is. Of course, many people are simply misguided and will very willingly be corrected of their ways because they have some faith in god.

This is a snippet of what I have discovered. I hope this helps.

Why people find discovering the similarity between ancient religions and Christianity to be a Eureka moment amuses me.

Why on earth would there not be similarities? Creation and human reason are of a nature that allows us to find the Source and Origin of all things. It's remarkable that nature is understandable to us, why should it be? However, its why I love science as another indication of the Reason that is the origin and source of all things. Of course human reason has, and is capable still, of discovering God without specific Revelation, fortunately we do have thé specific revelation of Christ which confirms and completes the rational insights of the ancients.

Outside the box? To delve into the depths of faith and spirituality blows away all boxes. Religion is a great resource in this expansion of mind and soul as it enables one to walk in the company of giants who have ascended and descended the depths and heights of human existence.

Be a rebel, find believe nurtured in religion and reject the box materialism imposes on the world today, there's so much more else out there to delight in.

Yeah.... I just wonder who all these "Christians" that are ramming their beliefs down your throat? Maybe I live in a different part of the country but are you being told that you must believe in Jesus Christ at school? Is your boss at work constantly "witnessing" to you? I keep hearing this but besides a once a year knock on my door from the Jehova's witness where are you being so bombarded and forced into this religion?

Now if you want my side of the story I am sick of Political Correctness. If I say or someone thinks I said a "word" (pick one) that offends somebody I can loose my FREEKING JOB and my only economic support for my family!

There are so many Politically Correct movements in this country that will freeking completely shut you up even up to and including DESTROYING your life (socially & economically) if you don't agree with them, their behavior, their causes, etc. I am sick of it!

When was the last time you feared for loosing your JOB if you didn't agree with Christianity? What, you had to endure a post on the internet from some zealots (you don't have to read it you know), a radio or TV add for Christian Children's Fund came on during your favorite show, you accidentally landed on an evangelical broadcast while channel surfing? You have to endure some church buildings in the scenery?

Please Explain how religion is being slammed down your throat? In Saudi Arabia they have "religious" police.. I don't see that here.

Political Correctness is the oppressor... agree with us or else! Voice a dissenting opinion and your labeled something bad. Most people complaining about religion utilize the same or worse tactics when promoting or defending their PC causes... God forbid if I said " I don't agree with Gay marriage". Talk about Zealots!


On with Zeitgeist... that work of art ... LOL

www.youtube.com...

www.redmoonrising.com...

The Lucis Trust, formerly known as the Lucifer Publishing Company was formed by Alice A. Bailey a Theophsist and disciple of Madame Blavatsky (Helena Petrovna Blavatsky). Blavatsky was the founder of Theosophy and is considered the "mother" of the New Age movement and modern occultism. She taught in her Secret Doctrine that Lucifer was "higher and older than Jehovah. She further expressed in her "great work" that Satan, under different god-names, is really an allegory of "Good, and Sacrifice, a God of Wisdom." Blavatsky believed that Satan was the only god of earth, "is one with the Logos," and is the "cosmic reflection of God.". Blavatsky also equated Lucifer with Jesus Christ.

The Lucis Trust (or Lucifer Publishing Company) is a United Nations Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) and is represented at weekly sessions at the United Nations in New York and Geneva and a member of the UN Economic and Social Council.

Zeitgeist Part I used the controversial author Archarya S as the consultant for the movie. Part I of the movie is based on her book "The Christ Conspiracy", she also penned the companion guide for Zeitgeist.

Archarya S plagiarised her book from a book written in the 1800's by a Quaker who claimed without any evidence that there were 16 previous crucified saviours. This book was heavily cited by the Theosphical Society (founded by Madam Blavatsky - see above).

Archarya S expanded on the themes of the original book by drawing on material from Madam Blavatsky; revered 33rd degree Freemason Alber Pike who stated "Yes, Lucifer is God"; controversial researcher "Jordan Maxwell" (a pseudonym: derived from one of Maxwell's mentors, Madame Blavatsky's, works-- i.e., Jordanus Maximus); Gerlad Massey (High Chief Druid and contributor to Blavatsky's Lucifer Magazine); Albert Churchward (Freemason); James Churchward (Freemason); Michael Baigent (Freemason); Godfrey Higgins (Freemason / Cheif Druid) and others. To this day there are unclaimed financial rewards for anyone who can actually back up any of the claims made by Archarya S or Zeitgeist Part I.

www.redmoonrising.com...

www.disclose.tv...

reply to post by TruthParadox


Ok, but that only proves that religion is not a myth. People do indeed have beliefs in a higher being. This makes religion an actuality and not a myth. Whether or not God exists has not been proven and therefore no one can say positively that God is a myth.

I don't practice any rituals, but I do have a moral code I live by.

reply to post by ahimsa


I don't think anyone did say God is a myth.
The OP didn't, though maybe that's what he was implying...
Personally, I believe God is a myth, but I don't know.
But I do see many things taught in religion as myths, such as homo sapiens only existing for 6,000 years when we have proof that homo sapiens have existed for at least 160,000 years, or fitting every type of animal on Earth on a ship which couldn't possibly mimick the environment that many of the animals would need to survive...

Thanks so much, all of you

In response to the question of where in this country is religion being shoved down my throat, I never said that....I was meaning that is expected to be a Christian, especially in the South. People look at you different and call you atheist automatically, but then that is a contradiction in itself to one who doesn't belive in relgion at all; you gotta be a beliver to be against it). I have even had boyfriends to leave the elationship over this...but I stand frim now after reading and researching and am now more comfortable than ever before in believeing that religion isnothing more than an allegorical story to lay a psychological foundation of control...Zeitgeist helped me to open my eyes wider but then they were already opened in my youth...
Religion being analyzed and exposed for what it really IS TRULY a tough pill for so many to swallow. And it's understandable: it's what they and their parents, grandparents and many before them believe. And then to discover that it is not what is seemed is totally crushing; nevertheless, it is what it is.....

reply to post by Butter Cookie


Well you can't leave us like that. You better tell us what it really is, bring your beliefs out here for us to look at as critically as you perceive the beliefs, practises and thoughts of the religious amongst us. We may be few, but that shouldn't deter you as you seem to be relying upon your own solitary perception of how things really are.

Originally posted by Butter Cookie
Thanks so much, all of you

In response to the question of where in this country is religion being shoved down my throat, I never said that....I was meaning that is expected to be a Christian, especially in the South. People look at you different and call you atheist automatically, but then that is a contradiction in itself to one who doesn't belive in relgion at all; you gotta be a beliver to be against it). I have even had boyfriends to leave the elationship over this...but I stand frim now after reading and researching and am now more comfortable than ever before in believeing that religion isnothing more than an allegorical story to lay a psychological foundation of control...Zeitgeist helped me to open my eyes wider but then they were already opened in my youth...
Religion being analyzed and exposed for what it really IS TRULY a tough pill for so many to swallow. And it's understandable: it's what they and their parents, grandparents and many before them believe. And then to discover that it is not what is seemed is totally crushing; nevertheless, it is what it is.....

So... you watch a movie put out by the Luciferians / New Age Satanists that tells you the Christian religion is false... The claims and stories cannot be proven and you believe the Luciferians (the people who promote a golden age of Lucifer)? The guys who believe in, worship and promote the "bad guy" of the Christian religion?

Remember, It is not science or historians weaving the tales in Zeitgeist it is "religious" people routing for the evil guy.

Kind of hypocritical don't ya think?

reply to post by Supercertari


How do perceive the beating of Christianity into slaves and the Christian crusades in Europe? And also looked at the stroy and Adam and Eve, the serpent and the Garden of eden. It IS allegorical: "don't go questioning and searching for the truth...for if you do, you shall be punished" is what it sounds like to me...

I don't put Christianty down...i just no longer practice it because its not necessary to be close to God....not really sure on all what I believe about God but nevertheless I know we've been fed a lot of mythical tales....

Zeitgeist had the opposite effect on me. To me it says that the basic truth and understanding behind things stays, but the idols and stories adjust to meet the culture.

Which is more valuable, the alter or the gold that sanctifies the alter?

Which is more valuable, the idol/prophet, or the message and understanding they bring?

It's all about the understanding and wisdom, not so much the idols, stories and events(true or false - they are all stories to us) that express them.

People are kept blind by focusing on the literal, by focusing on the alter rather than the gold, the idol rather than the message and understanding, and because they only see the literal they only see differences in others. But if they could see in understanding and wisdom, then they would see similarities.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by ahimsa

 

I don't think anyone did say God is a myth.
The OP didn't, though maybe that's what he was implying...
Personally, I believe God is a myth, but I don't know.
But I do see many things taught in religion as myths, such as homo sapiens only existing for 6,000 years when we have proof that homo sapiens have existed for at least 160,000 years, or fitting every type of animal on Earth on a ship which couldn't possibly mimick the environment that many of the animals would need to survive...

I believe that the Bible does show that there was a Big Bang and a long period of time where things evolved before the creation of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were not part of the 6th day creations, but instead created after God rested and in a different manner.

I also believe that the flood was localized and that would have to do with where the holy line was living at the time. The Nephillium were interested in destroying the holy line and so would not have been living all over the world, they would have been where the holy line lived...the Adamic line. So it wouldn't have been all that many animals.

The question I have always had is...where did God come from. If you don't believe in God, you can get the same headache trying to figure out where space came from and don't forget that one little particle that blew up into a universe. Man those two thoughts have given me headaches since I was a young adult.

I am going to get flamed for this but frankly I could least give a crap. I won't change my beliefs just because someone puts a VIDEO on the INTERNET. Yes I have watched all of it and it has some interesting points. But frankly anyone could make this stuff up. But apparently everyone enjoys riding bandwagons...why can't I cash in on this new craze?

I spent a few weeks in the Sudan and Ethiopia and I saw some horrible things. It makes you question whether there is a God. Quoting the "Blood Diamond" which is a great movie. "God left Africa a long time ago." Today hundreds of people apparently seem offended that someone else believes in God and uses the "religious persecution" as an excuse to whine and bitch. Do whatever but sometimes its more than luck that gets us by. I survived at birth after being born a premi by four or five months. I survived a car wreck when I was younger. I have had plenty of other times where the proverbial # hit the fan but something else kept me going. Luck doesn't always count because I am not that lucky.

Most of the great philosophies, mythical systems and religions with all their hierarchy of philosophers, gods and goddesses, demigods, principals, gatekeepers, masters, angels, princes, kings and prophets contained, which are still alive today -- 90% of them are in one way or another connected to the Indo-European languages and cultures. It's all about the WORD or Language, and the inbound serpent-tongue magic in the Indo-European languages. The philological and ecume-something-ical cornerstones, the syllables, became gods and a word like angel has the same root as angle, corners, wings or horns in the building of language and humanity.... Every letter and syllable, every combination of them, every number -- has esoteric, symbolic and higher or lower, even deeper meanings, mathmatical values, symbolic shapes, language contained, developed and mastered by the human mind or mass of such, is mysterious, and it shows the human mind's or minds' capacity or potential within the blink of an eye. It's no mystery that there are similarities between the religions, all religion comes from the same source -- language and sophia, tradition, family and mental capacity of the human nodes. Language describes the gigantic simulation we are all witnessing one way or the other. And I promise you there is nothing new under the sun...s.

God exists of course, but the church really turned Him into a karikature.

The God from the bible has never existed, doesn't exist and will never
exist. But the God of Love, Light and eternal Compassion, forgiving, never
judging or punishing.. the true Source of all that exists in Creation, He does
exist. That one is real.. and should be believed in, because believing in a
loving and forgiving God is extremely important.

Some basic lore of the bible and the church is definitely true. There is a
Heaven, a Hell, a kind of purgatory realm, there are angels, archangels,
demons, and so forth. But the details about these things, just aren't right.

I've seen these things with my own eyes, while outside of my body, but I
have learned that it doesn't work like the bible and the church says, at all.
For example, no one is ever punished by God, no one ever has to stay in
Hell forever. Also, Heaven isn't a reward, it's the soul's natural home, to
which it returns to after every reincarnation.

Reincarnation is another concept the church screwed up. All souls live
hundreds of lives, of which the purpose is to learn and develop, become
more and more like God, to become more and more perfect and loving.

Hope this reaches at least some people.

[edit on (24/3/09) by Wehali]