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Is religion natural?

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posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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As a raised catholic, ive never had much choice as to what religion i would follow. Ive always been into scientific explanations of origin "the theory of evolution". And in recent years, ive started to question just what i believe, as i dont have parental influence anymore. (or rather, i just think for myself now).
But this article is about research done with children raised in different family atmospheres, with different influences in what they believe. The results show most children, when asked where an animal came from would say "god made it".

So. Is religion hardwired into our brains? I think it is natural to ponder about where everything came from. I feel, in a sense children think like ancient ancestors who wondered how everything was made.

I posted this here because it was a scientific experiment, but if the mods feel it needs to be moved, please do so.



In one of her writings, subtitled “Why Creationism is Here to Stay,” Evans states that “the theory of evolution is not something that arises intuitively, but rather requires a specific knowledge structure.” In other words, thinking like an evolutionist is hard work because, ironically, it works against the grain of evolved human psychology. Evolutionists will probably never outnumber creationists, Evans believes, since the latter has a paradoxical ally in the way natural selection has lent itself to our species’ ability to reason about its own origins.


VISIT LINK FOR FULL ARTICLE
www.sciam.com...

[edit on 22-3-2009 by Lombardy Inn]




posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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From my understanding of it, religion tends to stem at first from the natural fear of death.

Given that we know we will die, and we have a natural will to live, many tend to desire a way to cheat death... to exist after our bodies have died.
This is why the concept of religion is so desirable.

Myself, I believe once we're dead, we cease to exist (as a conscious entity, minerals and chemicals will of course exist in a decayed form).
That realization caused me to do some very serious thinking on what my life will be.

I had to decide, if this time is all I have, what then am I planning to do with it?

I decided that the ultimate goal to life is to leave the next generation in a better condition than yours was when you entered it. Even though you will cease to exist, other generations will come to pass after you, and hence, they are the only importance left once you're dead.
How you do that is your choice.

Me, I'm of a technical mind. Technology is my specialization, and hence, I aspire to create something to leave behind once I'm dead that will give future generations an easier or more enjoyable life than I might have had, however minor it may be.


As such, I view religion as an avoidance of reality through fear. But others of course will disagree.

Make no mistake about it, being an Atheist is certainly not taking an easy way out... it's a scary thing at first, knowing your life has no pre-set purpose and it WILL end. Once you come to terms with your mortality, you can begin deciding what your purpose will be, ultimately deciding for yourself how you might best assist the world around you, and the generations to come.

But... liberation in any form is never supposed to be safe nor comforting.

Morals seem to come naturally to those who have no belief in an afterlife. We realize that we aren't as important as the species as a whole, and it is ultimately the good of the whole species that takes precedence.

Those who are selfish will naturally seek religion because they don't want to face their own mortality. I'm not saying all religious people are selfish, but that religion is a beacon to those who are.




In the end, it's up to you what you believe in.

Are you willing to face the concept of non-existence in death?



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Really desire is what separates the different quality of people. Desire has evolved from basic needs, to money, power, knowledge ect. But the purpose is to come to a desire for spirituality. For those that don't desire it, they don't receive it. So its not so much what you "believe" as it is that you desire. If you have a desire for spirituality, you have a soul, and if you don't have a desire, well you get the idea.

There really is no way to "better the world" unless you do so through spirituality. The world is objective as such it doesn't need changing. That's where desire comes in, a desire to better the world or a desire to make a sandwich are not different in quality. Both are egotistical. An atheist with "morals" would be better off killing every human being than trying to make the world a better place.

Atheism can be both easy and hard I'd say. Morals are an interesting thing, some religions are heavily into "right vs. wrong", do this, don't do that. But others don't even believe in them. Morals has nothing to do with spirituality though because the action only appears in physicality.


Those who are selfish will naturally seek religion


lol, everyone only acts in their own self-interest, there doesn't exist a group of people who are selfish and another, better group that is not selfish in their actions. Everyone is selfish. The evolution of desire is the evolution of the soul, so those that are"very selfish" are actually closer to spirituality, although they might be misdirected in the purpose that this desire is ultimately for.


I'm not saying all religious people are selfish, but that religion is a beacon to those who are.


Trying not to offend the religious folks I see, lol. All religious people are selfish, as are people who are secular.

I don't mean to be saying this just towards you, because I've seen this a lot but I sometimes have to laugh when atheists think they are so smart, got everything figured out when it comes to "life". They seem to think on the food chain they're higher than religious folks, but there is something above both of them.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by ghaleon12
I sometimes have to laugh when atheists think they are so smart, got everything figured out when it comes to "life".


Um, pal?
This is a forum, and the words written on it are opinions.

We don't pretend to think we've got anything figured out. That's for the scientific process to do... albeit, painstakingly slowly.

And no, we don't think we're smarter... we just don't believe in a god, and we'll state our reasoning freely.


We're not the ones running around slapping a bible and proclaiming it to be the only truth... anyone who disagrees is going to hell for eternal damnation... and all that garbage.

The Atheists argument is, if there is zero evidence of somethings existence, and a multitude of evidence contradicting the arguments of those who proclaim it's existence... chances are... it doesn't exist.

Does this make us smarter? Not really. It just means we're a little more methodical in our pursuit of knowledge.


As for your comment on selfishness... you seem to be a little binary in your thinking. There's no such thing as black and white... but there are people who tend to act selfishly more so than others.

And from my experience, those who seek a way to avoid facing their own mortality tend to have their own interests on a higher pedestal than those who have come to terms with the fact that they're nothing more than the sum of their parts.


I don't think of myself as being "smarter" than others, or "special" in some way. Nobody is special. I am the sum of my parts. When I'm dead, I'm worth no more than the decaying slop I leave behind.
And neither are you.


People seem to think Atheists have a "Holier than thou" attitude, because they're mistaking the message.

We're not saying "You're not special, you're gonna die, and we Atheists will be laughing because we have some kind of smarter answer."

We're saying "Nobody's special, and we're ALL going to die. Including us."


Does that make any more sense?
We're not knocking people down from their high horses so we can climb on.
We're bringing EVERYONE down from their high horses... and we start by bringing ourselves down first.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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I think it's time to turn this into a Scientific discussion before it gets moved.

The realm of science allows for the possibility of god. Discoveries in Quantum physics today are on the border of paranormal sciences. But I'll get into that in a moment.

First lets start with this whole big bang thing. In order for atheists to be correct it would mean time had no beginning and will have no end. With me so far? Basically the universe started as a singularity which went super nova and whala, we have the universe. The Law of Conservation of Matter states that matter can not be created or destroyed.


When a piece of copper metal is heated in air, it comes together with oxygen in the air. Then if it is weighed, it is found to have a greater mass that the original piece of metal. If however the mass of the oxygen of the air that combines with the metal is taken into consideration, it can be shown that the mass of the product is within the limits of accuracy of any weighing instrument, equal to the sum of the masses of the copper and oxygen that combine. This behavior of matter is in accord with what is called the Law of Conservation of Matter: During an ordinary chemical change, there is no detectable increase or decrease in the quantity of matter.

Conversion of one type of matter into another are always accompanied by the conversion of one form of energy into another. Usually heat is leveled or absorbed, but sometimes the conversion involves light or electrical energy instead of, or in addition to heat. Many transformations of energy, of course, do not involve chemical changes. Electrical energy can be changed into either mechanical, light, heat or potential energy without chemical changes. Mechanical energy is converted into electrical energy in a generator. Potential and kinetic energy can be converted into one another. Many other conversions are possible, but all of the energy involved in any change always appears in some form after the change is completed.

The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can change its form.

The total quantity of matter and energy available in the universe is a fixed amount and never any more or less.


Source

So basically there has always been the same amount of matter of the same type in the universe. Every star in every galaxy is fueled by hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most abundant resource in the universe. With me so far? It is the gasoline so to speak. Tell me. What happens if you drive your car forever. What will eventually happen? It will run out of gas right? If there was never a beginning of time and there just has always been then why haven't we run out of gas yet? Hydrogen is still the most abundant resource in the universe instead of helium (the star's exhaust). Which means there had to be a beginning or a point in time before the universe as we know it began that there was no nuclear fusion reactions. Or else it would violate the first law of thermodynamics which means your computer wouldn't work neither would your phone or anything that uses energy which includes our own sun.

First Law of Thermodynamics

Furthermore how did the singularity come to be? You think an infinite amount of energy would just stay in a ball for an unthinkable amount of time before finally exploding a few trillion years ago? If there was never a beginning how did that matter come to be? And more importantly since it would contain some pretty volatile elements how did it remain stable for so long? Logic states that it would almost had to have a beginning. Where did it come from? It couldn't have created itself. Do not be so quick to completely dismiss the existence of a god. There is a pretty huge chance that we have zero understanding of who or what god is. Prove every religion wrong still doesn't mean there isn't a god. More than likely god is far beyond our understanding. My thoughts on that are god started this whole thing and we are carrying out the natural order of things. Cause and Effect.... Religion is natural to me because logically there can be no other way.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by DaMod]



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