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The coming evangelical collapse

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posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:16 AM
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even though i don't believe in anything even close to an afterlife or a christian god, i truly hope that those true christian believers just vanish one day in their much expected rapture. then we'll see who the real christians were and i'm willing to bet that most of the hate spewing AM radio hosts and televangelists will be left behind with the rest of us "unbelievers". knowing that those hypocrites will join me in hell will make eternity much more satisfying!

of course it will not be the government to deny that a rapture happened. it will be those hateful preachers that will! a show worthy of pay-per-view




posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by converge


I'm not letting you get away with this BS.

You either present some facts to back it up or this is just another of your typical made up pseudo-arguments.


Can't derail the thread Converge just google it yourself. I could say genocides and include liberals in with abortion but Ill just stick with people who have survived the womb and say Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey was small time Richard Speck Ted Bundy small time, I'm talking real serial killers like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, you know, Atheists that killed in the millions and millions it's actually a pretty well known fact. Surprised you haven't heard of it in one of your threads about how evil Christians are for killing hundreds of thousands of woman in Salem when the number was actually 20 or the old and tired "Crusades"



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


On one hand you call for tolerance of Muslims, yet in the same breath you call them heretics...hmm...

Then you go off on your typical hate filled rant on Zionists (Jews). ...and you wonder why things are as they are...

Tolerance doesn't go just one way, my friend. Your brand of hate does you, or anyone, any favors.


My brand of hate is exactly what the Bible calls for and what we need more of in today's world -- hatred of the occult, of war, of idolatry, of lies.

And heretics have a right to be heretics without being nuked away.

I'd rather be a heretic than a Satanic antichrist occultic, which is what Talmudism and Cabalism is.

I'm speaking of ideas and satanic religions and occultic books people base their lives on, also actions. I am not pointing to any one person to hate or punish, unless it is perhaps the Rothschilds of England, Rahm Emanuel, the gang of criminals running Israel, Bernanke, Greenspan, Paulson, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Obama and Company, the whole boatload of criminals stealing America blind with the Bankster heist, the ones lying us into wars and using our tax dollars to build concentration camps to put us into (maybe they will also make us literally dig our own graves?), pulling false flag attacks to murder 3,000 Americans on 9/11 and then step forward as the savior and blame somebody else so we will go to war for Israel.

These people need to be brought to justice for the incredible evil they have done and continue to do, the murders and tortures. And we must turn from the direction we are going toward Armageddon, step back and take a deep breath and reassess the situation we are in, stop listening the the lies of the controlled media.

People need to learn that Zionism means WWIII and tyranny and the New World Order.

And heresy is the term I use when measuring orthodox Christianity against other sects that are not orthodox. There is a point where the line is crossed and we're no longer a heretic, but rather flat out pagan.

For example, I would put Mormonism into the pagan category rather than the Christian heresy category because they are polytheistic and really just warmed over Freemasonry.

I would say also that Christian Zionism is a heresy, as is the belief in a pretrib rapture, as is believing one is saved forever by saying the Sinner's Prayer (even if one sincerely means it, that one burst of faith will not save) which is a vile heresy condemned in the Bible and known as antinomianism, that it's okay to sin because Jesus paid it all. And also the doctrines of Calvin are heresies that teach fatalism, that God is pulling all the strings and we are just kind of a dream in God's mind. I see these beliefs all flowing together into a common thread of the occult and pagan beliefs.

I see the Muslims as close to Christianity but having serious heresies, but no worse in my opinion than some other heresies that we see in Christendom. The Muslim lifestyle is what gives them credibility and why they are winning so many converts, because they are not aborting their babies or fornicating or sodomizing or taking drugs or getting caught up in the fakery of Madison Ave. They seem to have their heads screwed on straight when it comes to loving their families and children and to being sober and living with the knowledge that God is watching them and will someday judge them.

And I don't hate the Jews. I hate Zionism and I hate the Talmud and the Cabala. I don't of course hate the Torah because it is part of my own Bible which I love and believe in. People who really care about the Jews will tell them they are wrong, warn them away from the wrong path. This the Bible teaches.

I believe the Bible and I just go by what it says. Truth stands on its own, and the Bible says if we are not salt and light that we are good for nothing.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by PowerSlave
 



"good riddance"


That doesn't equal hate. I personally have a very negative opinion of modern religion and the mentalities that come with it. I'm glad to see it dying off because I personally believe it will be better. I personally believe religion is a fraud that gives us comforting tales that we are out growing, mainly through education. That's just my opinion. Religious people spout all kinds of hate on this site and frequently post as if they feel superior. Many of them believe I'm going to burn in hell for all of eternity. I'm simply being honest, stating an opinion without sugar coating it. We'd get a lot done if we could all do that, but then people get disrespectful and quite a few start accusing, such as those who call it "hatred" or "intolerance".

By the way, did you see that other reply I wrote you? I believe it was about religion and law.

[edit on 23-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]


Sounds like you've been hanging around the wrong people. I daresay the people you call "Christians" may not have been that. True Christians aren't supposed to judge others and are supposed to leave that up to God as far as where they will spend eternity. That's a matter between you and your creator and no one else.

As far as giving us comforting tales that we are outgrowing, how is Hollywood any different? How are television shows any different, from the shows we watch as kids to the shows we watch now to the movies we see? We want to see shows that have an ending that we expect to see. How are fiction books any different? Ultimately we expect a satisfactory ending to what we read.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


...and you know this how? Seriously, I'd like to see your evidence. I've been around evangelicals all my life, a good portion, though not all, of my family are evangelical Christians.

Haven't seen any evidence of satanic, occultism there, nor amongst acquaintances who are dyed in the wool evangelical Christians. Trot out the evidence...who knows you might actually convince me. Going off on a harangue isn't going to do it. Nor is a bunch of other peoples so called evidence...you...what's your evidence, because surely you investigated the truth for yourself? Surely?



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by grover
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.


I knew that was going to happen but sometimes ya just got to call it like you see it and take your lumps.

BUT Mods... what about someone who is just grandstanding and doesn't want a meaningful dialogue... when they take over a thread and kill it just to promote their own viewpoints and racist agendas... where are the warnings and point deductions for them?



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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In the bible, it is prophesied that before Jesus Christ returns, there will be a "falling away" from the faith. So, this is just prophecy being fulfilled in the last days before Antichrist goes into power! Believe me, Christians have been expecting this for some time!

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3
And also in his letter to Timothy -
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils..." 1Timothy 4:1
And the prophet Amos -
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord..." Amos 8:11
So before Christ's Second Coming a GREAT APOSTASY or simply put, FALLING AWAY OF GOD'S PEOPLE is prophesied to take place.

This is called "The Great Falling Away", and when this happens, get ready for Anti-christ to appear!



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi
I could say genocides and include liberals in with abortion but Ill just stick with people who have survived the womb and say Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey was small time Richard Speck Ted Bundy small time, I'm talking real serial killers like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, you know, Atheists that killed in the millions and millions it's actually a pretty well known fact.


You're one of the most hilarious people on ATS.

You can in the same sentence insinuate that liberals are serial killers because they support abortion and say that actual serial killers who tortured, raped and even cannibalized children are small time.

Does this moral position of yours come directly from the Bible?


You can tout Pol Pot and Mao as being the murderers they were how many times you want, but you'd still have to show that they killed the thousands of people that they did because they were atheists, that's what this argument is about after all.

Obviously that you will claim - with no foundation whatsoever as it's typical of you - that they killed thousands of people in the name of atheism, but the fact is that they didn't; they just happened to be atheists who were genocidal maniacs, like so many other genocidal maniacs that happened to be religious, such as Hitler.

The names you mention and the claim that they did the things they did because they were atheists, is the equivalent of saying that the thousands of people that died in Afghanistan and Iraq did so because George Bush is a Christian.

I'm not expecting to see where and how flawed your logic is, and I'm really the one to blame here, as I cannot stop responding to your trolling.


[edit on 24-3-2009 by converge]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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Personally, I think their destruction will come about due to the following...

1. The next generation are more educated, more empowered and have access to information like no generation before them.

2. Strict moral codes have broken down in society, young people gain life-experiences like never before and are not inclined to give up these pleasures so willingly.

3. Organized religion needs investment, and without followers willing to give up their money said organizations falter and fail. In the economic crisis, community charity takes priority over paying a preacher man to live in luxury.

It won't lead to the backlash described. People can believe what they want to believe and people will still appreciate genuine institutions built for the good of the soul and society in general. It will lead to more varied beliefs and a relaxation of the grip of Christianity on society. Real, genuine, proper local religious institutions will remain, supported by the community.

Over all, good riddance to all organized religion. It's a machine to enslave the population and maintain a hierarchy where a few elite live in luxury at the expense of their followers.
It's hypocrisy of the highest order.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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Thanks "god" that I'm a atheist.

I save a lot of trouble.
Look at you, like cats and dogs in a fight.

Whats is bad for the world its must be over? Money, religion and politics.
Until then we are slaves fighting witch other. Give your self a break.
Its bad for ya!



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


"Real" and "Genuine" are the key words here! While we experience "THE GREAT FALLING AWAY" (from the faith), that has been prophesied in the Bible, we must stay in the "true church". There are many FALSE PROPHETS right now. As Christians, we must discern the spirits and be very careful not to be led astray.

As this apostasy occurs, and it is beginning now, the prophet Jeremiah foretold of these end times:


"Our shepherds have caused us to go astray" Jer 50:6



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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All things must pass,the evangelical's reign has begun to end they really have only themselves to blame.I seem to remember in the bible that pride is considered to be one of the seven deadly sins.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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I'll tell you what when things get bad I would rather be in company of Christians then a bunch of people that are narcistic,little to no morals,and feel as though they are the chosen one,can't figure why these fools complain if someone has religious beliefs,they might not like they way you go through life,so get over it,the world owes you nothing so thats what should be your concern



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Salt of the Earth
 


...and you know this how? Seriously, I'd like to see your evidence. I've been around evangelicals all my life, a good portion, though not all, of my family are evangelical Christians.



I've posted links to Brother Nathanael Kapner's site
. It's easy to read, very well-organized. That is a good start to start researching Talmudic/Cabalist Judaism. Also Texe Marrs website is excellent which is www.powerofprophecy.com
. Texe is a Christian minister, an author of a boatload of scholarly books, and is considered perhaps the world's foremost authority on secret societies and the NWO. He is Alex Jones' mentor and the one who married him and his wife. Michael Hoffman is another source on the Internet to research this subject. The fact is, this information about the "Most Holy" books the Talmud and Cabala are kept hidden from nonJews lest we become upset and angry with what it says and find the adherents out for what they truly believe about Jesus, Mary and the goy and how to treat us.

I am an evangelical Christian myself -- can't you tell?

How did the church get involved in Zionism? Through the relatively modern heresies introduced in the late 1800s by CI Scofield. Before that, Christianity considered Judaism an antichrist religion, and Islam to be a Christian heresy, according to Michael Hoffman in an interview by Texe Marrs this week.

I learned from Dave McPherson, his books and personal correspondence, about Scofield, the one who first popularized the pretrib rapture and Zionism (and since Scofield, Hal Lindsey has carried it on); how he was a novice, that he was a bad guy who abandoned his wife and kids and bilked his own mother in law out of her money to sell her nonexistant land with a fake mortgage deed. How he was imprisoned for embezzlement, was "converted" in jail and ended up marrying, how he went to Moody's church and as a novice so-called converted Christian passed himself off as Dr. CI Scofield and stole Darby's notes and ideas on dispensationalism, wrote them up as footnotes.

I learned only recently that Scofield was also acting as an agent for the British Zionists.

Excerpts from Ed Hendrie's website online:

"The Scofield Reference Bible is the direct product of an evil Zionist conspiracy, and with three million copies sold, it has popularized the pretribulation rapture doctrine. In order to understand the evil behind the Scofield Reference Bible we must first examine the origins of the pretribulation rapture doctrine.

"The modern pretribulation rapture teaching is traceable directly to de Lacunza.

"John Bray, in his book The Origin of the Pretribulation Teaching, states that he discovered 1827 writings of John Darby wherein Darby discussed the pretribulation rapture. Coincidently, that was the same year in which the English translation of Jesuit Priest Emanuel de Lacunza’s book was published. In John Darby’s later 1829 writings he acknowledged being aware of both Lacunza’s teachings and the writings of Lacunza’a translator, Edward Irving. The timing of Darby’s first writings of a pretribulation rapture in 1827, the publication year for Edward Irving’s English translation of Lacunza’s book, certainly suggests that he learned that doctrine from the writings of Lacunza. In any case, it is generally acknowledged that Darby was most responsible for popularizing the doctrine. In fact, early on the doctrine was known as Darbyism.


"Cyrus Ingerson Scofield has through his reference bible popularized the pretribulation rapture doctrine. Scofield wholeheartedly embraced John Darby’s pretribulation rapture teachings. Scofield learned Darby’s teachings from Dr. James H. Brookes, who was the pastor of the Compton Avenue Presbyterian Church in St. Louis and a follower of Darby’s teachings. Scofield put explanatory notes, which included Darby's dispensational system, in his famous Scofield Reference Bible.

"The Scofield bible was funded and nurtured by World Zionist leaders who saw the Christian churches in America as an obstacle to the The Scofield bible was funded and nurtured by World Zionist leaders who saw the Christian churches in America as an obstacle to their plan for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. These Zionists initiated a program to infiltrate and change the Christian doctrines of those churches. Two of the tools used to accomplish this goal were Cyrus I. Scofield and a venerable, world respected European book publisher: The Oxford University Press.

"The scheme was to alter the Christian gospel and corrupt the church with a pro-Zionist subculture. “Scofield's role was to re-write the King James Version of the Bible by inserting Zionist-friendly notes in the margins, between verses and chapters, and on the bottoms of the pages.” In 1909, the Oxford University Press published and implemented a large advertising budget to promote the Scofield Reference Bible.


"The Scofield Reference Bible was a subterfuge designed to create a subculture around a new worship icon, the modern State of Israel. The new state of Israel did not yet exist, but the well-funded Zionists already had it on their drawing boards. This is not surprising when one considers that the progenitors of the pretribulation doctrine were Jesuits, and the first Jesuits were crypto-Jews. A crypto-Jew is a Jew who converts to another religion and outwardly embraces the new religion, while secretly maintaining Jewish practices. Ignatius Loyola himself was a crypto-Jew of the Occult Cabala. Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) and Emanuel Lacunza (1731-1801), the Jesuit priests who first conjured up the pretribulation rapture doctrine were Jews.


“Since the death of its original author and namesake, The Scofield Reference Bible has gone through several editions. Massive pro-Zionist notes were added to the 1967 edition, and some of Scofield's most significant notes from the original editions were removed where they apparently failed to further Zionist aims fast enough. Yet this edition retains the title, "The New Scofield Reference Bible, Holy Bible, Editor C.I. Scofield." It's anti-Arab, Zionist “Christian” subculture theology has fostered unyielding “Christian” support for the State of Israel and its barbaric subjugation of the native Palestinians.


"Who was C.I. Scofield? Scofield was a young con-artist who engaged in a continual pattern of fraud and deception both before and after his alleged 1879 conversion. Scofield was a partner with John J. Ingalls, a Jewish lawyer, in a railroad scam which led to Schofield being sentenced to prison for criminal forgery.

"Scofield had developed connections with a subgroup of the Illuminati, known as the Secret Six. He was taken under the wing of Samuel Untermeyer, an ardent Zionist who later became Chairman of the American Jewish Committee and President of the American League of Jewish Patriots. “Untermeyer introduced Scofield to numerous Zionist and socialist leaders, including Samuel Gompers, Fiorello LaGuardia, Abraham Straus, Bernard Baruch and Jacob Schiff.” These powerful figures financed Scofield's research trips to Oxford and arranged the publication and distribution of his reference bible. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

"Scofield was a huckster and con artist who was a front man for very powerful Zionist Jews. The pretribulation rapture deception he interlaced within his bible is part of an antichrist conspiracy that is today being nurtured by other wolves in sheep’s clothing who are following in Scofield’s footsteps and working hand in hand with papists and Zionists."

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by Oldtimer2
I'll tell you what when things get bad I would rather be in company of Christians then a bunch of people that are narcistic,little to no morals,and feel as though they are the chosen one,can't figure why these fools complain if someone has religious beliefs,they might not like they way you go through life,so get over it,the world owes you nothing so thats what should be your concern


There is a mid-way, not all people are one or the other. Personally, I'd rather be in the company of atheists, people who have the strength to follow their own path, respect others and not judge. They are the people I am surrounded by every day.

My main concern when it comes to highly religious people, is their self-righteous judgment of others.

I would have no problem if religious people kept to controlling their own lives. But they insist on meddling with the lives of others when it is none of their bloody business. Example; Prop-8.

The religious organizations can fail. We don't need them in modern society.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by converge

You can tout Pol Pot and Mao as being the murderers they were how many times you want, but you'd still have to show that they killed the thousands of people that they did because they were atheists, that's what this argument is about after all.

Obviously that you will claim - with no foundation whatsoever as it's typical of you - that they killed thousands of people in the name of atheism, but the fact is that they didn't; they just happened to be atheists who were genocidal maniacs, like so many other genocidal maniacs that happened to be religious, such as Hitler.

The names you mention and the claim that they did the things they did because they were atheists, is the equivalent of saying that the thousands of people that died in Afghanistan and Iraq did so because George Bush is a Christian.

I'm not expecting to see where and how flawed your logic is, and I'm really the one to blame here, as I cannot stop responding to your trolling.


[edit on 24-3-2009 by converge]


Actually Mao and Lenin (don't know about Pol Pot but I'd guess it would be the same exact thing) were not atheists at all. They were Satanists, Luciferians, Freemasons, occultics and practicers of the Babylonian Cabala.

Satanists love death and torture. They say that Lenin sent his men out to randomly kill, and was hungry to hear of people being butchered.

The Bible says: All who hate God love death.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by grover

Originally posted by grover
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.


I knew that was going to happen but sometimes ya just got to call it like you see it and take your lumps.

BUT Mods... what about someone who is just grandstanding and doesn't want a meaningful dialogue... when they take over a thread and kill it just to promote their own viewpoints and racist agendas... where are the warnings and point deductions for them?


This thread is not killed. There is a very lively discussion going on which if we were not allowed to discuss this basic issue of what's wrong with Evangelical Christianity it would probably have died from lack of fuel by now.

You'd be better off to just admit you were wrong. Nobody is perfect. I used to react the same exact way you did to me when I first heard people trying to wake me up about the Talmud and Cabala and Zionism. But when I realized I was wrong, I was quick to say so. People do respect others who admit when they are wrong.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 



Sounds like you've been hanging around the wrong people. I daresay the people you call "Christians" may not have been that. True Christians aren't supposed to judge others and are supposed to leave that up to God as far as where they will spend eternity. That's a matter between you and your creator and no one else.

There’s no such thing as a true Christian. Christianity today is in no way, shape, or form practiced to the full extent expressed in the text, mainly because society has progressed beyond some of these practices and not bending with society would have left Christianity in the dust. Contradictions within the text do not help this either. That’s also why religion is one of the most hypocritical practices.


As far as giving us comforting tales that we are outgrowing, how is Hollywood any different? How are television shows any different, from the shows we watch as kids to the shows we watch now to the movies we see? We want to see shows that have an ending that we expect to see. How are fiction books any different? Ultimately we expect a satisfactory ending to what we read.

I don’t think they are much different and that is the point. People do not want to see that it is nothing more than something they seek solace in. When the movie ends you go back to your life, even if you enjoy escaping it. Religion is a whole different level of denial and I believe that it divides us. I’ve never heard someone say they would not vote someone into office because of their choice in films, I have however seen people in this country appalling claim that they would never vote for a Muslim, despite that person’s political ideals or qualifications.





[edit on 24-3-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Doesn't sound to bad to me. Most of the current churches are corrupt beyond belief, twisting the words of the bible to fit their world views.

People need to stop looking to organized religion, religious books/magazines, and tv shows. They need to look for God themselves, rather than take everyone else's word for what to believe and how.

This could be a blessing in disquise.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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I was raised catholic and made to go to "Church" till I turned 18, (but still lived at home).

Now 22 yrs later, living in my own home, and subjected to the all powerful internet and satelite tv. my views changed.

50 proofs God is Imaginary
godisimaginary.com...


Interesting documentary with Bill Maher, watched it on PPV
'Religulous'



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