The coming evangelical collapse

Originally posted by QuantumBud
If I, a Moderate, might posit a philosophical maxim, it would be this:

Ideology is the curse of all sentient beings.

Dogma is nothing more than solidified Ideology.

Thus, all dogmas, whether religious, political, or philosophical are hardened, untested, concepts rarely or never tested against Reality.

What's wrong with using Reality and 'constantly tested' hypotheses about Reality as a guideline? Yes, it's harder to chew than the pablum the Fundamentalists toss out, but a lot more filling.

Ideology, or a belief system, is endemic to the human condition. You have one too. Whatever 'reality' it is that you use as a Ideology, you can be sure that it's been twisted and adulterated by powerful people to benefit themselves. Only those who have received a love of the truth can truly see through the lies that have permeated Christianity, science, philosophy, and all other belief systems.

Originally posted by OhZone
The collapse of Christianity is as inevitable as the collapse of the old religions whose symbols were the Bull - Taurus, and the Ram- Aries. These were the ages when the Sun was in those signs.
They both gave way for the sign of the Fish - Pisces. Jesus, as the Lamb/Ram of God was sacrificed to make way for the Fish of which Jesus became the "fisher of men>"
Now his time is up and the Sun is moving into the sign of Aquarius, the water bearer.

Expect changes. Christians would make it easier on themselves if they would just go with the flow.

Pure zeitgeist BS. But you are right that it would be easier on Christians to go with the flow, to take the wide path, to be part of this world. Easier in this life anyway.

Originally posted by Armchair Philosopher
As a former member in the seventies of a large, charismatic church, I can state with confidence that when the Religious Right served as facile tools for Karl Rove and George Bush, the Rapture Right wrote their own obituary.

In other words, it is ludicrous that the Bride of Christ would vote in droves for torture, invasions, and heavy favoring of corporatists and the ultra-rich. By doing so, they have fallen into a sad deception, which may be what we used to term The Great Deception. If it isn't The Great Deception, then it's a precursor of it.

Frankly, I'm angry at these folks. They gave us Bush, and Bush gave us two wars and this dark economic crisis. Thanks Christians. Next time you get political, think first please!

I couldn't agree more. I think that what you are describing is part of what scripture calls 'the strong delusion'. These are those who will hear, 'depart from me workers of iniquity, I never knew you'.

The death of the church in the west has been planned for quite some time and accelerated with forced government controlled education. However this too was predicted by Jesus to occur in the last days. Many will fall away. The west must be prepared to worship the state in the form of the antichrist. Already the US is embracing european socialism, communism really in the form of the prototype antichrist Obama.

Now what you don't know is that worldwide christianity is increasing! Those who have thrown away their faith in droves in the West are more than being replaced in the third world and in muslim countries. The growth is fueled by God's power in the form of miracles and signs and wonders. You can argue your high browed atheist philosophies until you are blue in the face, but it's kind of hard to argue when people are rising up off of their death beds.

www.megashiftministries.org...

Once we are judged, burning with nuclear fires, hungry and destroyed, God will call a last remnant out of the pathetic remains of Western civilization as well. This too is prophesied, since the antichrist kingdom will have a remnant of strong but heavily persecuted believers.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I liked your post.

I do wonder however why your avatar has "paid in full." This is not Biblical.

Christians were bought with a price, but that is not the same as "paid in full."

This sounds like antinomian heresy, this "paid in full" stuff. This is another reason the church is a laughing stock.

"It is finished" and "bought with a price" is not the same as "paid in full."

Not even close.

reply to post by Salt of the Earth


I believe that Christ suffering has paid for our sins in full, according to the meaning of Hebrews 10 e.g.

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

I do not believe in cheap grace so I'm not a so called antinomian. But we are under the law of christ.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.
All these new religions of 2,000 years are the 'ROOT OF ALL EVIL'
They all in it together girls.

Originally posted by SevenThunders

I believe that Christ suffering has paid for our sins in full, according to the meaning of Hebrews 10 e.g.

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

I do not believe in cheap grace so I'm not a so called antinomian. But we are under the law of christ.

"paid in full" is cheap grace. It means all your sins ever committed, past, present or future are all forgiven. This is antinomianism, and is a lie. There is a difference between "bought with a price" and "it is finished" which are phrases you will find in the Bible and "paid in full" which is a slogan used to express antinomian heresies.

Your sins are not "paid in full," and even the sins you were previously forgiven can be put back to your account -- for example if you don't forgive others, then the forgiveness that was once given to you will be taken back. One example. 'Bought with a price' means you are not your own, and you owe God, he doesn't owe you anything as far as "paying in full" for any future sins. If you desire such forgiveness, you must repent and ask for it. Otherwise, you won't get it and can even lose out on past forgiveness once given.

Further, your past and present sins (not future) are covered and removed by a perfect sacrifice, not "paid for." The blood of Christ is meant to cleanse you, not excuse you. And it is a real, not imagined cleansing, that produces a new creature. If there is no new creature, there was no cleansing that took place. And if the new creature reverts back to the old man, you are back at square one.

We're supposed to count the cost and see if we're ready to finish the course. If not, there is no atonement that reaches into the future regardless of what we say or do. It is possible to fall away. If not, the word "fall away" would not exist.

reply to post by wonderworld


Finally someone who makes some sense in this thread.

Originally posted by genomega
Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants. --William Penn

Funny thing.... couldn't help noticing that a lot of people 'governed by god' have been ruled by tyrants - who usually claimed to speak for god.