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Hamas leader: Israel has tricked us and the Egyptians

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posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Question for you. If Hamas and every Palestinian stopped all threats towards Israel, do you think Israel would end their aggression, the system of Apartheid, and illegal occupation of Palestinian territory? Zionists started the terrorism even before Israel was established, and that is still their method.

Israel is currently destroying homes in Jerusalem, were Hamas is not active and attacks have not taken place. They claim the houses were built illegally, despite the fact that the houses have been there since before Israel even existed. Israel is attacking fishermen near the West Bank, where Hamas is not active, and they were indeed Fishermen and not terrorists with guns. Israel routinely shoots farmers tending their crops. There are plenty of videos showing this where it is quite clear, they are just farmers without weapons, and international rights workers are along side them witnessing the IDF attacks on civilian farmers. Mark Regev, the official Israeli spokesman, admitted in front of television cameras that it was Israel which broke the ceasefire that lead to operation Cast Lead, and that Hamas has not violated the terms of the ceasefire.

The history of Israel is one of Aggression by Jews against their Arab cousins. It was founded by Israeli terrorist activities. They were caught bombing the King David Hotel, killing 200, and tried to make it look like Arabs were responsible. They bombed the British Embassy in Rome, and again tried to make it look like the Arabs were responsible. They even blew up over 250 of their own people aboard the SS Patria in another Israeli terrorist attack in 1940. The first act of air piracy in the history of civil aviation was carried out by Israel, in 1954, when a civilian Syrian airliner was forced down in Tel Aviv and its passengers and crew held for days, despite international condemnation. The first deliberate shooting down a civilian airliner was carried out by Israel, when a civilian Libyan airliner was shot down by Israel over Sinai, in 1973, on the direct orders of Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, killing all 107 of its passengers and the entire French crew. They attacked the USS Cole in an attempt to get the US into the war, killing numerous Americans and wounding several others. During that attack they illegally covered up the insignia on their airplanes to make it look like it could have been Egyptian planes. You talk about Arab terrorists suicide bombing in Israeli markets, but that is something that they learned from the Zionists. Between December 13, 1947 and February 10, 1948. there were Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, there were also 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others. Over 700,000 Palestinians have been forced from their homes and into concentration camps. 385 entire Palestinian towns have been totally obliterated from existence by Israel. The list of Zionist terrorist attacks is long and well documented. Israel started the terrorism, not the Palestinians.

When the jews in Nazi Warsaw ghettos fought back, they were called Freedom Fighters. This is the exact same thing that Palestinians living inside the Gaza concentration camp are doing. Fighting against oppression, for their very survival.

There is a reason why Bishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela both stated that the Apartheid in Palestine is far worse than what was abolished as extremely racist in South Africa.

I am not saying that Hamas and others have no blame in the matter, but it is quite clear that Israel, as the occupying force, is most definitely in charge, and Must share a good deal of the blame for the situation. The Zionist plan was to "run to every hilltop and steal the land as quickly as possible", and to deny the right for anyone else to live there. This is exactly what they have done. If someone attacked your family and ran you out of your land, would you fight back? Or would you roll over and accept it?




posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 

If a person or group wants peace, they need be realistic about it.

I am sorry, group one can not say well, you must be very reasonable, yet we need not be.


As I said before, a fair and reasonable thing-starting point point would be one terrorist for one soldier.

"IMO" the Palestinian leaders (Hamas terrorists) don't want peace.
What they are doing is offering a deal that they know good and well will not be taken.
This way they can lie and say they are working for peace and their is no support on the other side.
It is nothing more than a political game they are playing.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 

OK lets talk Fair and Reasonable. Prior to Operation Cast Lead, which was the Israeli name for the attack on Gaza that killed over 1300 Palestinians, many of them Women and Children, a cease fire was in place. Hamas and Israel negotiated together for the Cease Fire. Hamas held up their part of the bargain and ceased all rocket attacks. Israel agrees that Hamas met it's responsibilities under the agreement. Israel, for their part, was to end the economic embargo on Gaza and open up the borders. Israel never met any of their obligations, and instead broke the ceasefire and attacked Gaza, causing significant death to civilians. They also utilized illegal weapons such as White Phosphorus which indiscriminately burns it's victims alive.

It is reasonable to believe that Israel does not bargain in good faith, and there is a documented history of Israel failing to uphold their own obligations. It is well established that Israel is in violation of several international laws, the Geneva Conventions, and several UN mandates. Given that Israel ignores their international obligations, why should Hamas trust them in any negotiations? That may be the reason why Hamas is placing a higher price on the current negotiations.

Are you aware that Israel jails children as political prisoners?

Britain-based Save the Children organization revealed facts described as "shocking" related to incarceration conditions of Palestinian children in Israeli occupation jails for political reasons, pointing out that the most disturbing phenomenon observed by international organization was that Israel arrests children and issues sentences against them harsher than others.

According to the organization, the IOF troops kidnapped 6,000 Palestinian children since the beginning of the Aqsa Intifada eight years ago, and there are currently more than 320 children detained in Israeli jails, adding that the IOA detains on average about 700 children every year.
If it was me, I would insist that all minors be released before any negotiations can begin. Children should not be used as political prisoners.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by Terapin
 


You are doing a great job at recapping so much of the history accurately. It takes a lot of time and a lot of interest to learn these things, and a very brave heart to speak the truth to them in the political climate that distortions of history for propoganda purposes, money and influence can buy and shape.

One notable correction, it wasn't the U.S.S. Cole but the U.S.S. Liberty.

It wasn't just the Israeli's criminaly involved that day, but Lyndon B Johnson himself, who refused permission to American Fighter Jets, and their Fleets Admiral to engage the Israeli Aircraft.

His exact words to the Admiral who questioned the orders being relayed by the Joint Cheifs of Staff in the Oval Office asking for clarification, were spoken by an angry President Johnson himself when he grabbed the phone and said, "Stand down, I want that G*d D*mned Ship at the bottom of the Ocean."

That's how deep the collusion and infestation of the American Government really is, by the Zionists.

In all fairness the Israeli fighter pilots themselves had to be repedively threatened with Court Martial and execution if they did not keep up the attack.

27 men died, some in life rafts gunned down with machine gun fire from Israeli Patrol Boats. Scores were badly burned, injured, and scarred for life from Napalm and Phospherous Bombs dropped on the U.S.S. Liberty by the Israeli Fighters masquerading as Egyptians.

The only thing that saved the Liberty which was meant to be sunk, so America could enter the war, presumably on terms that would make it hard for the Arab Oil Producing Nations to declare and oil embargo on us, was a Russian Spy Trawler that happened on the scene, making it impossible for the deception to work. That was the only thing that broke off the attack on the Liberty.

The problem isn't just Israel, the problem is Israel and the unconstitutional and unjustifiable influence it has within the U.S. Government.

Further it's important to understand, not all of the Hebrews left the region to go in Diaspora. There were aproximately 15,000 in the greater Palestine Area from the time the Romans sacked the Second Temple and sent the bulk of Hebrews into exiles. The Hebrew religion is a very complex and very secretive one at it's core, Jews are not Hebrews, they picked up the religion over the centuries having no blood ties to any of the actual 12 tribes. There are conflicts within the Hebrews themselves because of holdover tribal differences, and the Hebrews do not hold the Jews in the same regard they hold on another. Jews and Zionists fight in the Israeli army, Hebrews and Orthodox Jews don't. Now what is most important is those 15,000 Hebrews who stayed, got along side by side, in peace, and often genuine friendship with the Palestinians all the way up to Zionists, and Jews started immigrating into Palestine starting with just a trickle in the late 1800's after the first Zionist Congress. Lord Rothschild was already putting pressure on the Brittish to provide a homeland for the Zionists and Jews, and Hebrews in exiles. The Brittish were initially and tried for quite some time all the way up until they went Bankrupt fighting the Germans in World War I to give the Zionists Uganda. The Zionists did not really want it but kept their options open while they pushed for Palestine itself, and Hebrew/Jewish/Zionist immigration was basically just a trickle each year. There was still no problem with anyone getting along until the Balfour Decleration.

When the Balfour Decleration came out that alarmed the Palestinians because there was some general fear that the Zionists would try to break their agreements that the now defunct League of Nations, that the United States was not a part of, primarily over outrage of how the Balfour Decleration was really the driving force in getting America into the war, which for some reason neither President Wilson nor the Congress realized until all the treaties in play came out at the Versailles Peace Conference.

The British Mandate called for 52% of the land to go to Palestine, and 48% of the land to go to the Zionists. The Palestinians and the Arabs were concerned that the Zionists would try to somehow get around that. There first suspicions bore some fruit when the Brittish changed the Land Ownership Laws in Palestine.

The previous laws did not allow for absolute ownership of the land to the extent it could be fenced and blocked. A good portion of the Palestinians were nomadic herders who followed their flocks foraging for food and water. Herds could wander over anyone's lands, graze off of them, and naturally take their own course during this system.

One of the Zionists initial goals was to make Palestine economically untennable for Palestinians, so their first land purchases under this new law were to buy lands that would strategically stop the traditional routes the herds took. This of course upset the Palestinians a great deal as their herds did need to wander pretty far and wide to sustain themselves sometimes even over other country's borders which in part led to the Israeli myth that half the Palestinians weren't even Palestinians as they counted poeple wandering in and out with their herds.

The Zionists forebade Israeli shop keepers and farmers from hiring Palestinians to further their economic plan of dominance, many Jewish shop keepers and farmers who hired Palestinians were murdered by Zionists for this offence.

The Palestinians themselves rarely owned land individually but collectively as villages, and shared it with other villages, through a centuries old form of cooperative land management where at the start of each planting season the village cheifs would take a census of their village and compute the acerage needed to grow enough crops for it and then sit down with all the other Village Cheifs in the region to decide how much of the available land that was tillable each village would get.

The second prong of the Zionist land plan after blocking the herding routes was to buy land strategically so a continquous mass of 52% of the land could not be under Palestinian hands, making it virtually impossible to award 52% of the land to Palestinians, corrupt Brittish officials would often sell and deed parcels of the collectively owned village lands constantly eroding the method that Palestinians farmed it, further causing economic harships and deprivations.

That was about the time that Palistinians started on very rare occasion and much less frequently fighting back against Zionists in some terrorist acts of their own.

Why all this is important, is that it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Zionists were Jews and Hebrews. The Palestinians got along fine with Hebrews for thousands of years. They had no religious based prejudice.

It essentially to them was at first a free ranger, versus rancher type conflict like broke out in the Mid Western United States 40 years before when Ranchers started fencing off property to free range herders and threatening their way of life.

It then developed into a realization that in fact the Zionists were working night and day to not honor the terms of the treaty that allowed them to immigrate, that was sold by the Brittish to the nervous Palestinians as nothing to worry about they get 48% of the land, you get 52%

They knew they had been had, and the reality is that most of the Jews trickling into Palestine had no ancestoral ties to it. It would be like me moving to College Park Maryland just because I was a Terrapin Fan and insisting I had a right to live there because the Terrapins play there.

While everyone on the Zionist or the brainwashed side of this argument loves to say Hamas did this and Hamas did that...all I have to say is why is there a Hamas?

This was the most blatant crime in history



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by IAF101
 



Facts or Proof ? You think the pathetic news articles you presented here as Proof or Fact ? It would be asinine to assume so.


As it is to assume that people are going to take the view of a self-affirmed Israel apologist/Zionist-supporter with any shred of credibility, when talking about Israel's contributions to the peace process.

At least I'm referencing what I'm saying, instead of just pulling it out of my rectum and presenting it on a platter.


You are mistaken if you think I'm apologizing for anything. I dont need to and I never will. As for people taking my views, I couldnt care less what people "take". My support for Israel is my own and I make no attempts to obfuscate my position. That itself is more credible than naive populist posturing.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Yeah, yeah, yeah... the Mainstream Media is all bunch of no-good, liberal, terrorist sympathisers, so which sources would you take seriously?

Ehud Olmert? Tzipi Livni? The words of IDF?

Who all have it in their best interests to blame absolutely everything on Hamas and absolve themselves of any wrongdoing, and to keep prying eyes away from freakishly, Nazi-like tactics used in Gaza.

Again a grotesque oversimplification of some very elementary facts. To any reasonable person, accepting the "opinions" and "rants" of some fringe organizations as "facts" and "news" is ludicrous.
Those are you "sources". I would rather trust the worlds of Livin and the IDF than the wild ravings of some pro-jihad "blog" that thinks its reporting facts and attempts to peddle shock and horror.
Those are utterly juvenile attempts at attention.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Oh thank you for making it clear you were a fanatical Zionist!
We are all in your debt.

Nobody on this thread could have guessed. Your so open-minded and rational and display a stunning sense of compassion.


Clearly, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or what the meaning of Zionist is in the first place. Apparently, according to you anybody who supports Israel is a "Zionist", that must make you, somebody who doesnt support Israel a "terrorist" from Israel's point of view.

Fortunately, for me I dont suffer from your fascination for blind labels and I know that you are merely misguided as you clearly arent honest enough to yourself to be terrorist!



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Please stop quoting history when you have no knowledge of it.

Hitler came to power via emergency powers (the Enabling Act) granted to him after he STAGED THE REICHSTAG FIRE, and blamed it on alleged "Communist" elements within Germany and proclaimed a state of Martial Law.


If it were not out of my field I would have published a paper on how terrorist sympathizers are uniformly misinformed about even the basic elements in history. However, I am not here to be your teacher, please at least try and look up the 1933 election in Germany before you spew patently incorrect facts in some attempt to come off as informed.



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

The German people NEVER elected him as Chancellor and they never had the chance to elect another political party before he abolished them all, and turned Germany into a dictatorship.

Again, more misinformation !
I never said they elected him Chancellor! (That doesnt even make any sense!) In any case I'm not here to teach history, I cant bother to do so.
All I will do is point out that you are either ignorant or nefariously spreading misinformation.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Stop equating the actions of the government so directly to the citizenry, unless you also presume every Israeli citizen is a war criminal by virtue of the actions perpetrated by the IDF on direct orders from their government?

First there has to be a WAR to have "war crimes".
And Israeli citizens m And please dont attempt to presume what I do and do not think. You are hardly qualified.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
I know the IDF may present a good case for exterminating civilian populations in warfare (i.e. something along the lines of Hamas= every Civilian) but down here on Earth, that's shared by both left and right-wingers as a war crime and total miscarriage of justice, even in chaotic warfare.

There is no such thing as "chaotic warfare". All warfare is chaotic!
The IDF never has and never will be in the business of exterminating civilians. That is Hama's job. It is the IDF's business to exterminate those who threaten Israel's existence. You attempt to slander the IDF is further proof of your warped and vulgar pro-terrorist propaganda.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
I corrected your above quote to reflect what you actually meant to say, since you are, as you claim, "a man of your word, who doesn't mince them".

Please spare me these pubescent attempts at humor. They are quite tedious to endure.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
I'll take your whackjob logic and say: "The Israeli people deserve every rocket attack that lands in Israel for making the wrong choice and supporting their government's criminal, military actions, which have resulted in over 1,000 Palestinian deaths."

Again, apparently simple logic defies you! The collateral casualties of Hamas supporters was caused after the rocket attacks by Hamas terrorists.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
When's the last time you took a look at a map?



No need to put it in quotes, once the Israelis cross the Palestinian authority border they are illegally occupying another country.

. You really have no clue do you. Perhaps you should read up before you start making more absurd assertions.

Do you even know that the Palestinian authority is NOT a country and has no status whatsoever. It exists purely due to the benevolence of the Israeli state withing Israel's borders. Further, to call it an occupation, Israel would have to be taking something from these so-called Palestinians that belongs to them. That is again incorrect. The very land they are on was won and belongs to the State of Israel since 1967.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Yeah that's why they're organising massive "We're Sorry" rallies all across the United States this year, in order to exonerate themselves of the travesty of re-electing George Bush twice and to apologise for the Iraq War.

That doesnt even make any sense. To try and exonerate oneself would be to shirk responsibility. In your wild attempt to sound intelligent you have vindicated my argument.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Yeah APART from the 60% or so of the population who protested all over Washington against Vietnam,

At no point in history has 60% of the population protested in DC . A few fringe radicals do not represent in any way all Americans. Americans took responsibility for Vietnam by voting for better leadership and also by sending thousands of boys to war.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Oh our "mighty" sense of responsibility sure did keep us from bailing out on Iraq; the Bush Administration's responsibilities to the Petroleum Industry and their neck-deep-in-Oil Republican friends like Dick Cheney prevented us from leaving Iraq until we've sucked them dry of any black gold.

Again more mad raving that you has has absolutely no basis in fact what so ever.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Yeah nobody but me believes in this, expect 4 independent survey groups who all concur with their "statistical hearsay":

www.alertnet.org...
www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.projectcensored.org...

Apparently you think this is the first time this has been discussed on ATS or that you so called "sources" are something to consider credible. Have even read those linked articles yourself or have you merely dredged some garbage from the internet ?
The only study that even comes close to a million is that bogus study by a halfwitted group called Lancet. It has been proven here by me and others many times how it is both factually and statistically incorrect and merely a tool for propaganda. Please use the Search function if you want to do that dance. I'm tired of that song.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Yes. "Elected".
The same way President Obama "chose" Rahm Emmanuel to be White House Chief of Staff, and didn't do it because he was bowing to overwhelming pressure from Jewish Lobbyist groups

So its all a conspiracy now right ?? First you try to uphold the credibility of an elected "terrorist government" and now that that argument has been demolished you assail democracy itself in some bigoted raving against Jews.

Finally, you have come out with your true agenda, which is, Spreading bigotry against Jews.

Cant say I'm terribly surprised. Most terrorist sympathizers are bigots and racists.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
This IS premeditated. That's what you, my tightly blindfolded, Zionist friend, fail to realise.
The Knesset had the Gaza Offensive in the works and on the shelves since 2007, desperately baiting Hamas and waiting for them to step up their attacks in response to constant Israeli aggression so they could use it as justification to launch another collective punishment operation just in time for the 2008 Israeli elections, to garner support for the right-wing parties.

Blah, blah, blah..but no proof what so ever. Just more paranoid delusions about how the "jews are going to take over the world! "


Do you have even one document from the Israeli government showing that they were preparing for such an offensive as you claim ? Do you have ANY proof that this was motivated for the Israeli general elections other than mere conjecture ?

You havent got any clue have you ? Just more ridiculous paranoid propaganda from Mr. References



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

Firstly, Hamas is not recognized as a government by Israel.


Yeah and?

So this gives them to right to waltz into the Palestinian authority and do as they please?

Yes. Thats exactly right. Especially when even the Hamas is not recognized by all so called Palestinians.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Not recognising a legitimately elected government is one thing, not recognising basic human morality in warfare is another.

As I've stated before, there is no question of "warfare" here.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Just because they see Hamas as an illegitimate government doesn't mean they can wipe the Palestinians off the map.

They havent tried to wipe Palestinians off the map. They've tried to destroy at least some of Hamas's weapons smuggling and weapons building infrastructure to reduce the rocket attacks.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Hamas doesn't view Israel as legitimate either, does that give them the right to kill Israeli citizens too?

That hasnt stopped them from trying has it ? Please direct this question at Hamas when they pay you to spread their propaganda next time!



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Hypocrisy seems to be the mantra of your bizarre logic.

And irrationality yours.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Grow up.

And 50% of the American population isn't obese, they're just "well-rounded".

Twist and spin the terms around whichever way you like, but if it quacks like a duck... then guess what?

Again, you have exhibited a shocking level of ignorance to international and military affairs.
A police action is remarkably different and has a very specific legal meaning that is defined by international resolutions and laws.

Your juvenile obese/well-rounded charecterization only demonstrates your profound and complete ignorance on the subject.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Just the like Nazis were well within their God given rights to round up every Communist, Jew, Gypsy and Slav in Germany and send them to concentration camps because they were all collectively responsible for setting the Reichstag ablaze.

A small yet major distinction that any lucid person will be quick to discern would be that the gypsies, the Jews, the slavs didnt launch thousands upon thousands of rockets against Germans in Europe.
So, no. Its not "just like the Nazis".


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
I suppose you consider the American colonial militias who waged a long campaign to free America from the British monarchy terrorists as well, no doubt?

No I dont. Because unlike terrorists, they didnt hide amongst civilians and declared open war publicly against the British colonials and won. As a result they kicked the british out of America and told their King that they were no longer his subjects. That is how real freedom fighters behave. Hamas are just terrorists.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
No one else in their right mind, in the world asserts the right to kill the civilians of another country for electing a particular government who's foreign policy they disagree with.

All international laws support Israel's right to protect her people and punish terrorists who endanger her people. The UN supports that right for every country.

Again, the Palestinian territories are NOT a country. Please educate yourself before coming to argue about facts you totally ignorant of.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
What was Caesar's quote again... "The conquered emulate the conqueror".

People like you are just helping me to realise this especially applies to the case of the Jewish population of Europe who suffered at the hands of the Nazis, and their subsequent brutal actions after founding the state of Israel.

The oppressed will resist. That's not Islam, Hamas or the Palestinians talking; that's human friggin' nature.


Again more unsubstantiated drivel and half truths.
If the Nazi's were faced with a constant annoyance like the Palestinians they would have gassed them all, a LONG time ago. Its more than 50 years since the creation of Israel and today their condition is better than what it was 50 years ago under the British. They govern themselves and have more food and medicine than 50 years ago despite their constant attacks and bombings of innocent Isreali civilians.

Originally posted by The Godfather of ConspiraOf course they'll do whatever's within their power to stop their children and land being taken away by an illegal occupying power.

Apparently, that kind of medieval attitude is whats kept them from progressing in the last 50 years to a decent community. And people like you who espouse such primitive beliefs through some misguided sense of righteousness. Please peddle your morality some place else.



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
What should they be doing Mr. Armchair General?
Bending over and taking it like a man? Waving Israeli flags?

You dont need to be a general to see the solution here. Armchair or otherwise. Unlike you I dont subscribe to ridiculous medieval philosophies and condone barbaric actions of the misguided.

Waving Israeli flags is exactly the right thing to do. Purging themselves of these radical elements is the first step towards normalcy and progress from their slum existence.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
The same reason the people of Gaza don't need to subjected to the collective punishment of the IDF, for the actions of a military wing of Hamas they have absolutely no control over.

Unfortunately, that lame excuse doesnt cut it in the real world. The bombings were in response to the rocket fire and since the Gazans didnt have a problem with the rocket fire, they shouldnt have a problem with the bombings either!


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
They're certainly not worth 1,500 Palestinian lives any day of the week.

14 dead Israelis. 1,500 (or more, we'll never know) dead Palestinians.

How can you possibly rationalise that? You call that unfair?

Hamas doesn't even have 1,500 members within it's ranks. 1 Israeli life is never worth more than any other Palestinian life.



How do you know how many members Hamas has ? Are you a Hamas member ??
As for 1500 or whatever arbitrary number, doesnt matter. I can easily rationalize it.

Can you not comprehend the simple fact that taking one human life for another simply is not meaningful or useful as you cant weight the importance of any persons life and compare it to another's. Do you think Isreal should have killed 14 Palestinians and be done with it as a response? Israel is not moved by such primitive emotions of mere revenge. The aim was to dismantle Hamas's network and infrastructure. People died in the process.

Can you prove that every single one of those 1500 were not related to Hamas in any way at all ? That none of them ever fired a rocket into Israeli cities ?

Dont preach your cheap morality of number of human lives as if you were some diving being to weigh each person's worth in this world.


[edit on 24-3-2009 by IAF101]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Well, sounds like you are both even, because Israel is an illegal government which Hamas does not recognize. Israel too was born of terrorist groups, as opposed to the Palestinians who were forced into terrorism, because of how Israel was born through terrorism…

You reap what you sew!

Wrong, its you reap what your sow!
Also you are wrong that we are "even". Israel is not Hamas. Israel is recognized by the UN, EU, the US, Russia, etc. Also, unlike Hamas, Israel is not a terrorist organization.
Israel was born of persecuted people who realized quickly that the British were untrustworthy in their claims and wouldnt hold to their word. They used force and violence to drive the British and their colonial mindset out of Israel after the Jews had been back stabbed by the British in some pathetic attempt to hold on to another colony. After the British fled, the Arabs decided to annex the entire region and massacre the Jews. This led to the war in 1956 where the Jews fought 5 Arab states and defeated them to form the state of Israel through blood and sacrifice.
Palestinians on the other hand are the useless refugees that no other Arab states would take back after their failed invasion of Israel.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
By the way I was born in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, of Irish/English/Polish ancestry and I don’t really recognize Israel’s right to exist,

I couldnt care less who you are and where your from or what you think.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
first and foremost for the political deceptions involved in the Balfour agreement, and furthermore because the Zionists broke the treaties that allowed for their immigration and peaceful settlement, by using terrorism against the lawful British authorities and the indigenous Palestinians.

Lawful British authorities ?? What is that ? The British were the first to break the Balfour agreement by creating the state of Jordan. Next they continued to pervert even the spirit of the agreement by not relinquishing control of the region to the settlers and siding with the Arabs against the settlers.

Please spare us you warped historical fantasy.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Alright now, did Israel give land to the Palestinians or not to for their own state?

No, not for their own state but rather to govern themselves independent of Israeli control.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Because if they did, they aren’t Israel’s borders, and that would be an issue between Gaza and Egypt who share that international border, now if they didn’t actually cede Palestinians the land for a self governed state then yes, they would be Israel’s borders but it would have just exposed yet another Israeli/Zionist lie to go along with about 100 years of nothing but lies.

It would be a lie if they said it was to make a separate state for themselves. They never said that. The border between Egypt and Gaza is Israel's border as well. Gaza is merely a self governing territory, not a state of its own in any way shape of form. Israel has never said that they were to be an independent state with borders. The only lie is believing they said otherwise.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Yes I do believe they expected retaliations in the hopes of exposing mentalities, predilections and lies like the ones you have done such a great job hastily explaining. I personally think, because I have personally witnessed, Israel loosing more and more grassroots support every day and I think Hamas is playing your predisposed ever so predictable responses and reactions like a fiddle, to finally cut Israel off from the financial and military support that allows them to break every promise, conduct terrorist campaigns, murder international diplomats, steal land and abuse human rights. What a pity that Hamas or anyone would take objection to such behavior let alone risk life and limb to try to see that it stops?

Please spare us your wet dream of how Israel is being exposed as some conspirator and some villain! Your warped understanding is quite predictable for somebody who has deep rooted bigotry against Jews to the extent they would support flagrant terrorist actions against civilians. Such bigoted and dubious arguments I've heard plenty from racists and the paranoid.
Unless you have some concrete facts to substantiate your fantastical allegations of "lies" and such, it is all merely slander and propaganda.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Interesting analogy, of course by those standards anyone on the loosing end of a political struggle deserves to die…so if the Jews lost and suffered in the Holocaust it was deserved?

No, again you are incorrect. I said, that people are responsible for the actions of those they put into power. I never said they deserved to die. As for the Jews of Germany, many of them aware of the Nazi government moved to other region of Europe or accepted the bigotry that came along with Nazi rule. A few remained in the hope that Nazi rule would pass and accepted their fates as second class citizens.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
After all the Jews who decided to stop supporting the German state that they lived in after the Balfour Declaration and made direct international appeals to Jews throughout the world doing business with the Kaiser’s government and funding their war effort, who then later used their control of the German State’s Central Bank to grin the German War Machine starved of funding to a halt, so England could win on the European Battlefield and go conquest Palestine and to defeat the Ottoman Turks who ruled it so Jews could immigrate into Palestine, and of course the Jews that once again used their control of the Central German Reserve Bank to force Germany to accept the bankrupting and humiliating terms of the Treaty of Versailles, negotiated in the very home of the Lord Rothschild the Balfour Declaration was personally addressed to, and the Jews who then tried to usher Communism into the German State in the economic chaos left by the treaty, might have kind of then deserved the retribution the German State meted out to them, according to your philosophy of kick the dog expect it to bite you?

Firstly, that is total and utter rubbish. Anti-Semite Nazi propaganda that has no proof what so ever but apparently has a place in your understanding of history. Apparently, it says a lot about you as well.


As for the facts, they are fantastical and incredulous as with all anti-Semetic drivel put out by the Nazi's where the Jews were secretly colluding to bring down the German state for world domination or some such ludicrous agenda. If this were really the case why all those Jews not vacate Europe after the Balfour declaration and why did they stick around for the Holocaust ? The reason quite simply is because there was no grand conspiracy and no grand agenda as your nazi propaganda would allude. And if it were true they would have deserved the ostracism and bigotry that followed but before that can you prove that it was true ?? Without proving any of it to be true it is clear that they didnt deserve the Holocaust.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I just so love the insane and perverted double standards employed by Israel and it’s supporters in every last repugnant and vile thing they do! It really reaffirms my faith that cesspools will always exist.

As opposed to the insane and perverted double standards of Nazi bigots ??
I agree cesspool will always exist. They exist within the blatantly bigoted from whom your champion.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Thankfully the lack of civilized manners, social norms, honor, and diplomatic skills that don’t center on political extortion and financial manipulation will no doubt as they always have throughout history leave Israel in ruins and the Jews of the world looking for another outhouse to turn into a cesspool. You certainly have done an exemplary job at making the Middle East a beautiful, tranquil and wonderfully safe place to live. Keep up what you call the good work!

Pretty soon no one will recognize Israel’s right to exist. And of course as you say, thank yourself!


Alas, with there being fewer and fewer people of your kind, your predictions of doom and gloom for Israel and Jews world wide are rapidly fading away. Thanks, in part to Mossasd, Yad Va Shem and people like Simon Wiesenthal etc people with your beliefs have their days numbered.



[edit on 24-3-2009 by IAF101]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by Terapin
do you think Israel would end their aggression,

Defense. Not aggression.


the system of Apartheid,

It's a security wall. Not apartheid. And it wouldn't be there except for the fact that the so called palestinians keep sending suicide bombers into Israel. It's defensive.


illegal occupation of Palestinian territory?

There is no 'illegal occupation' of so-called 'palestinian' territory.


Israel is attacking fishermen near the West Bank, where Hamas is not active,

WRONG. Weapons are smuggled in on those so called fishing boats. It's well documented. Israel has a right to defend itself. If Hamas wasn't smuggling in arms on those boats, then REAL fishermen wouldn't have anything to fear.


When the jews in Nazi Warsaw ghettos fought back, they were called Freedom Fighters. This is the exact same thing that Palestinians living inside the Gaza concentration camp are doing. Fighting against oppression, for their very survival.

:shk: Gaza isn't a concentration camp. Not even close. And any border closings of the Gaza was brought down upon them by HAMAS. If Hamas wasn't smuggling in weapons through tunnels and through so called fishing boats .. if Hamas wasn't firing thousands upon thousands of rockets into Israel ... if Hamas wasn't sending hundreds of suicide bombers into Israel ... then the borders would be open. Any closed borders are the fault of Hamas.


Bishop Desmond Tutu

He's a nut.


Nelson Mandela

If he said that then he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about anymore. That's dead wrong.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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All I see is empty rhetoric backed up with no facts whatsoever, hell - anyone can see how racist you are with comments like this:


1600 or 16 million it doesnt matter. Those 8 lives are to Israel worth more than all the Arab lives on the planet.

... you even mock a poster for posting with evidence, rather than pure propaganda. It's just crazy that ATS allows this hate-speech to continue. I guess by allowing this vile talk it clearly shows the effects Israeli propaganda can have on people.

No facts (post them if you have), just blind hate.


[edit on 24-3-2009 by Goathief]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Terapin
 


You make some good points, however...

1) Hamas broke the cease fire by firing rockets and mortars into Israel.
Israel "responded" to the attacks and it built up to the attack on Gaza.

2) Hamas is the major cause of death in Gaza. They launch their attacks from schools, playgrounds and civilian homes, which, naturally, is where the "counter" attacks go to.
In this way, Hamas causes the most death and destruction in Gaza for the "oh, poor us" sympathy of those who don't know or don't want to know the truth.

3) there were hundreds of Murdering terrorists doing suicide bombing of "PURELY" civilian targets-coffee shops...

4) Once the Terrorits were denided access to Isreal, that came to a grinding halt.

Knowing that, of course, they don't want to allow them access to Israel, because we all know it would only result in more terrorist bombing's of civilians.

5) the only reason that the terrorist can't do much damage is they are kept far enough away from the border to prevent "most" of their terrorist weapons from reaching civilians.

6) the "main" items that are smuggled in the terrorist tunnels are weapons/ammo and bombs-from Iran.

7) Of course the terrorist want their smuggling tunnels open and cry like babies when they are closed, for it stops the low of boms and weaopns to the terrorists.


[edit on 3/24/2009 by mrmonsoon]



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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In departing the utter lunacy of this mud-slinging contest which has been hijacked by Zionist sock puppets seeking to vent their rage at the "injustices" of resisting the occupation and destruction of one's homeland, I leave you people with a quote from Albert Einstein, one of the most prominent Jewish intellectuals, and a noted anti-Zionist:


I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. Apart from the practical considerations, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain -- especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight without a Jewish state.57

www.mepc.org...

He said it best when and other Jewish intellectuals called the Likud party: "an admixture of ultra-nationalism, religious mysticism and racial superiority."

Caesar could have been speaking of the Israelis when he said: "The conquered emulate the conqueror."

No one seems to see the irony in the fact that one of the most persecuted and discriminated ethnic minorities in the history of the world, who suffered one of the worst acts of genocide ever committed in the history of the world, is now enacting retribution and vengeance upon the Palestinian people in a manner freakishly similar to the way the Nazis wiped out European Jewry.

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind, and retribution & vengeance does not give "God's people" any redemption whatsoever, but only seeks to continue the historical fate of the Jews once more: a people without a homeland.

And to prove, Caesar was right all along.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by IAF101
 



Wrong, its you reap what your sow!

Also you are wrong that we are "even". Israel is not Hamas. Israel is recognized by the UN, EU, the US, Russia, etc. Also, unlike Hamas, Israel is not a terrorist organization.
Israel was born of persecuted people who realized quickly that the British were untrustworthy in their claims and wouldnt hold to their word. They used force and violence to drive the British and their colonial mindset out of Israel after the Jews had been back stabbed by the British in some pathetic attempt to hold on to another colony. After the British fled, the Arabs decided to annex the entire region and massacre the Jews. This led to the war in 1956 where the Jews fought 5 Arab states and defeated them to form the state of Israel through blood and sacrifice.
Palestinians on the other hand are the useless refugees that no other Arab states would take back after their failed invasion of Israel.



Yes, yes I do and the garden is coming along so well this year thank you. I like to think I have a Green Thumb! It’s funny that you would mention the United Nations first and foremost as recognizing Israel. Evidently, they recognize it all too well based in the branch of it that is totally dedicated to trying to ensure Palestinian rights abused in all of Israel’s broken treaties, to monitor Israeli Human Rights Violations, and to formulate policy on how a genuine peace might be brought to the region, when, and if, the U.S. stops blocking every sensible attempt to enforce the sanctions and penalties designed to ensure a lasting peace.

You are right Israel is not a terrorist organization, but a terrorist State.

Further my friend the British maintained the Mandate under the auspices of the United Nations not the English Government. As far as the British not maintaining their word, which I assume your poor rendering of history is referring to the first White Paper, which probably had to do more with London Banking Politics than Palestine, knowing the motus operanti of some of the unscrupulous Zionists involved, was still no excuse for Yitzhak Shamir assassinating Swedish U.N. Special Envoy and Ambassador Count Folke Bernadotte and his aide de camp. It is clear that the United Nations was trying to determine and resolve the legitimate grievances of both Palestinians and Zionists regarding the British Governance of the Mandate. The British did not flee they abdicated to behind the scenes financial pressures, yet again by Rothschild’s control of the Bank of England. Even if all you say is true as opposed to the reality of none of it is true, the British would have also been stabbing the Palestinians in the back as well, yet their approach to the problem with the British did not include far ranging and disparate terrorist attacks like those of the Zionists, who carried out terrorists attacks against the British in places as far and ranging as Egypt and Italy. Israel declared Independence and started illegally seizing more Palestinian land before any formation of a pan-Arab army, stepping in to do what the United Nations, and the British had failed to do in a humanitarian effort to aide the people who truly were indigenous to the region and had suffered the brunt of the British ineptitude and malfeasance, and United Nation’s ineffectiveness. As far as Palestinians being useless refugees, that kind of smacks of some underlying insecurity perhaps regarding Jewish heritage of the time where none of the European nations that had allowed prior to World War II for Jews to live as separate but equal peoples in Diaspora wanting to let them resettle after their obvious and well documented machinations in Germany and England caused their centralization during the Holocaust. The starker truth is that Rothschild’s money was badly needed to rebuilt war torn Europe and any nation taking back Jewish refugees were to be cut off of it, as Rothschild wanted them in Palestine. The Palestinians on the other hand did have there own nation, which was subjected to mass foreign invasion not for any aggression or atrocity committed by them, but solely for an international cabal’s financial gain to adhere to the extortion placed upon them by the world’s wealthiest man and Israel’s founding fathers. It’s not an apples, to apples comparison, but more like an apple to a rotted our Kiwi Fruit. Had Zionists, the British, and the United Nations all honored their commitments no Palestinian would have been displaced, nor did many have a desire to become stateless citizens in foreign countries no matter what you imagine the kindred relationships to be for the sake of your tragically flawed recounting of history.




I couldnt care less who you are and where your from or what you think.


Yet of course the rest of us, are supposed to care you are from Israel and what you think to the extent that we must think it too or be subjected to vulgar lack of civility?




Lawful British authorities ??

What is that ? The British were the first to break the Balfour agreement by creating the state of Jordan. Next they continued to pervert even the spirit of the agreement by not relinquishing control of the region to the settlers and siding with the Arabs against the settlers.


As soon as you stop inflicting us with tragically flawed rendition of history, since it was the Balfour Declaration not agreement. You are referring to the subsequent British Mandate of Palestine, drafted by the defunct League of Nations, Lord Rothschild and the English. Palestine was ruled peacefully by the Ottoman Turks at the time of the Balfour Declaration that the Declaration itself ultimately tasked the English army as having to conquer to even make the subsequent British Mandate even physically possible, which of course are all highly suspect events in and of themselves, shedding light on the true depth of the conspiracy involved here. Why England establishing Jordan should have troubled the Zionist settlers bound by treaty to only receive 48% of Palestine is nonsensical unless Zionists saw themselves expanding in violation of the accords. The British did not side with the Arabs but utilized their particular form of divide and conquer politics by backing the weakest of the elite Palestinian families to renew rivalries with the most affluent of the elite Palestinian families, who spent far more time pursuing their rivalries with one another than any credible or concerted attempt to defeat any Zionist machinations to renege on the treaties. Do they not teach real history in Israel or was it just a class you did poorly in?




No, not for their own state but rather to govern themselves independent of Israeli control.


Awe isn’t that sweet, I heard something very similar to this when Clinton said he did not have sex in the Oval office. Clearly every treaty the Zionists or Israeli’s sign is just nonsense to appease the international community and world press.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by IAF101
 





It would be a lie if they said it was to make a separate state for themselves. They never said that. The border between Egypt and Gaza is Israel's border as well. Gaza is merely a self governing territory, not a state of its own in any way shape of form. Israel has never said that they were to be an independent state with borders. The only lie is believing they said otherwise.


I am glad you see the humor in robbing an entire nation and people of almost all it’s land, possession and wealth and herding them into barely sustainable enclaves while visiting every possible deception and cruelty upon them simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, when the worst possible thief came along, the lie of course is believing anything appropriate or honorable has ever occurred in the long and endless list of subterfuges, backroom deals, broken treaties, murders, and thefts that birthed the criminal enterprise you refer to as Israel.




Please spare us your wet dream of how Israel is being exposed as some conspirator and some villain! Your warped understanding is quite predictable for somebody who has deep rooted bigotry against Jews to the extent they would support flagrant terrorist actions against civilians. Such bigoted and dubious arguments I've heard plenty from racists and the paranoid.

Unless you have some concrete facts to substantiate your fantastical allegations of "lies" and such, it is all merely slander and propaganda.


As soon as you give up your nightmare of Zionist and Israeli and Jewish world domination, and begin to honor all the treaties Israel has broken.

If Israel would stop using human shields and only place soldiers onto the stolen lands they illegally occupy that belong to the Palestinians that are in range of those rockets then hey, it wouldn’t be terrorism aimed at civilians. The truth is Israel targets civilian infrastructure in every violent campaign it has and propagates this myth that the Palestinians are cowardly and hide behind civilians while this happens. If that is true, then Israel is just as guilty for using human shields in this fashion too. That there are Israeli citizens on those lands is in violation of U.N. Accords and Treaties, ones that Israel was a party to with no intent to honor. It is those double standards employed by the politics of the Zionists, that you make Jews synonymous with, through your own inaccurate beliefs and renderings regarding history that make you think the illogical and nonsensical race card is somehow effective in defeating those with a passion for the truth and history, as well as free speech and honest debate.

As far as concrete facts the average 9 year old could come up with a more factual account from a few hours of reading Encyclopedias and History Books than you are rendering to essentially play nothing more substantial than the race card.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by IAF101
 





No, again you are incorrect. I said, that people are responsible for the actions of those they put into power. I never said they deserved to die. As for the Jews of Germany, many of them aware of the Nazi government moved to other region of Europe or accepted the bigotry that came along with Nazi rule. A few remained in the hope that Nazi rule would pass and accepted their fates as second class citizens.


I don’t want to get too deeply into this because it is an area of history that getting truly authentic and credible facts is difficult. I can tell you that Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill in charge of the British Mandate in Palestine wrote many private correspondences to Lord Rothschild prior to World War II, apprising him of what was essentially only a disappointing trickling of Jewish immigration into the area, and that many of them were poor Eastern European Jews who did not have the work ethic or mentality to really achieve the quality of settlement and Zionist/Jewish infrastructure both men seemed to be looking for judging the context of the letters. The Rothschild and Churchill families had long standing ties, and Churchill’s father had died in considerable personal financial debt to Rothschild.

Two things are clear though is that prior to World War II getting Jews to immigrate to Palestine was a hard sell. Immigration records clearly demonstrate this. The primarily cosmopolitan and relatively affluent Jewry of the world had little desire to return to their ancestral biblical homeland which by current standards of the day had a relatively primitive infrastructure and little financial opportunity. Of course I used ancestral biblical homeland because only a relatively small percentage of actual Hebrews and Judeans actually at ancestral blood ties to Palestine. For most of the Jews it only had spiritual significance but not cultural or ancestral significance.

I do know Rothschild’s house of Dan originally from Norway somehow managed to have the entire German Army bivouacked on the Norwegian beaches for weeks patiently waiting for Norway’s Jews to be evacuated before marching inland and securing the country.

There is a lot of credible evidence that Hebrews and Judeans with ancestral blood ties to Palestine were given every opportunity to escape and evacuate areas falling rapidly under Nazi control while Jews with no ancestral blood ties, most especially the poorer ones of Slavic descent were given no consideration and were slowly absorbed into the Concentration Camps for slave labor, and execution depending on suitability for labor. So to were Slavs, in far greater nearly twice the numbers, gypsies, homosexuals and political dissidents, and I would have been in that last category of political dissident, not wearing an SS armband on my arm, my friend. The Nazis were inhumane in their labor, and eugenics practices, and elevated barbarity to a science in its own right.

My passion for history and understanding it as accurately as possible makes me neither a tyrant nor a despot my friend. My love for all of humanity and distaste for those who seek to perpetuate and justify inhumane actions hardly makes me a villain, I have neither shot a rocket, nor dropped a bomb, or displaced anyone, for some evil or misguided reason.

I will say honestly that my own deductive reasoning, based on all the machinations, subterfuges, and plots to create a modern nation of Israel and overcome and master the logistics of making it viable, certainly does seem to point to the Holocaust as being yet another event linked to it, to both purge the undesirable elements of International Jewry in Europe, and Eastern Europe, who would have been the most geographically tempted to immigrate for economic and political reasons, and to spur the most desirable elements of it to rapidly immigrate which historical census data clearly shows they were not doing prior to the Nazi political movement and World War II.

Further I think it’s relevant to not only understand that there was a sizable portion of Hebrews and Judeans who never went into Diaspora who lived peaceably in Palestine for thousands of years, but that the first Zionists started legally immigrating back into Palestine in the late 1800s while it was still under Ottoman Turkish Muslim control, and there were no restrictions placed on Jewish immigration into the region prior to the Balfour Declaration which I am sorry to say does make it very obvious that Jews, even Hebrews and Judeans living in Diaspora had little inclination or desire to immigrate back into Palestine, where the Mufti and Sheriff of Jerusalem had always been known as being more than fair in providing real access and security to all faiths, and nationalities of peoples who saw Jerusalem and the region as holy.

Though it is politically incorrect to say so, it truly appears through just a study of history, historical trends, wars, and migratory patterns that the real need, and viability, and desire for a nation of Israel was born of the minds for the three most important men who all played critical parts, to the extent it likely would have never been logistically workable or viable as a nation if not for their machinations, manipulations and criminal acts. Lord Rothschild, Sir Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler and there really are fragmentary bits of evidence that do seem to suggest a real collusion amongst them to accomplish the rebirthing and repopulation of Israel.

While I can not prove that, I can not disprove that, and it’s my contention that Zionism makes being a Jew far more riskier and problematic than any racism you imagine to be prevalent, and that Jews have been deliberately sacrificed to further the Zionist agenda, and likely will be deliberately sacrificed again to further the Zionist agenda.

Simply put my friend the propaganda and distortions of history you put forward with such vehement vitriol likely are not in Jews or Israel’s best interest, because these Zionist machinations and manipulative plots seem far from over as evidenced by the politics and acts still taking place in regard to it.

At least I have the courage to speak to both the truth and my own fears in honest ways as opposed to the politically correct nonsense you have allowed yourself to become a spokesperson for and proponent of.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by IAF101
 





As for the facts, they are fantastical and incredulous as with all anti-Semetic drivel put out by the Nazi's where the Jews were secretly colluding to bring down the German state for world domination or some such ludicrous agenda. If this were really the case why all those Jews not vacate Europe after the Balfour declaration and why did they stick around for the Holocaust ? The reason quite simply is because there was no grand conspiracy and no grand agenda as your nazi propaganda would allude. And if it were true they would have deserved the ostracism and bigotry that followed but before that can you prove that it was true ?? Without proving any of it to be true it is clear that they didnt deserve the Holocaust.


I pretty much answered all these questions above. I feel I have answered them in far more sensible ways than you have asked them, and I think if you ask them honestly of yourself and step outside of the box your political, religious and national affiliations inhibit and cloud your deductive reasoning abilities you will not only be able to ask them better, but answer them better.

The thinking that is particularly indigenous to your region of the world where the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and a friend to my enemy, is my enemy, which is a little more detailed version of you are either with us or against us, is one that leads you to make far more rash and stereotypical conclusions than ultimately will serve you well.

For the record, there is plenty of blame to go around to every party of the conflict. The Palestinians have simply had to bear the brunt of the conflict beyond anything proportionately justifiable extent. I am simply advocating and am a proponent off the original agreement that led all sides to initially agree willingly and each with some sense of real compromise. 52% of the land to Palestinian Arabs, 48% of the land to Zionists, Jews, Hebrews and Judeans, with Jerusalem always an open city overseen by the Holy Sea.

That was the deal everyone agreed to, that’s the deal that if adhered too, finally, after all these deaths and murders and lies, and suffering, that if anyone breaks I am going to condemn, Palestinian or Zionist/Hebrew/Judean/Jew alike.

I honestly don’t see, and haven’t seen how the Palestinians broke that deal, or what justifies breaking that deal. I think the Palestinians were beyond fair in even accepting that deal, and the least a presumably persecuted for no reason peoples who were displaced could do who charitably benefited from it could honor it, and frankly I don’t think Zionists ever allowed or intended for it to be honored.

Now if that really offends your sensibilities I would suggest you simply have no sense.




As opposed to the insane and perverted double standards of Nazi bigots ?? I agree cesspool will always exist. They exist within the blatantly bigoted from whom your champion.


Actually what I am trying real hard to do is not champion the bigots, look at your own arguments, look at the dictionary, then realize this is why we are on opposite sides of the debate.




Alas, with there being fewer and fewer people of your kind, your predictions of doom and gloom for Israel and Jews world wide are rapidly fading away. Thanks, in part to Mossasd, Yad Va Shem and people like Simon Wiesenthal etc people with your beliefs have their days numbered.


When people go to the race track my friend and are serious gamblers they tend to study in depths how the horses have all run in the past before placing wagers. They tend to also know Man Of War is strong out of the gate, but weak in the third turn, Gypsy is weak out of the Gate but a strong sprinter in the final stretch, and Betty’s Pride tends to be a stumble a lot throughout, and well, they place their wagers accordingly, but keep an eye on the field to see if any horse is breaking with past patterns that typically lead to it’s victories or defeats.

No it’s true as you say the Vincents and Giuseppes and Hirams of the world love to sneak back in the paddocks and give one horse an injection to improve it’s performance and yet another an injection to hinder it’s for the sake of the outcome of the race.

Unfortunately these horses though more predictable tend to have shorter careers as a side effect of such manipulations.

As far as the broken nose types you take such stock in, if you had the clout and access to the Mossad, and the ability to make such inquiries as to know more about the numbering of my days, and you were someone they felt comfortable in sharing with, they would relay back to you that I am a highly protected species and that they themselves are one of many charged with that task.

Everyone loves a winning horse my friend. It never really pays to look a gift horse in the mouth.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by Terapin
 


You make some good points, however...

1) Hamas broke the cease fire by firing rockets and mortars into Israel.
Israel "responded" to the attacks and it built up to the attack on Gaza.

[edit on 3/24/2009 by mrmonsoon]


Umm, Actually, you are incorrect. It was widely reported on major news channels such as CNN, with video of Official Israeli Spokesman Mark Regev who stated quite clearly, that during the cease fire Hamas did not fire ANY rockets into israel during the four months the cease fire was in effect. This has been fact checked and proven to be an accurate statement. Israeli Intelligence, Egyptian intelligence, UN investigators, and major media outlets including Israeli media confirmed this.

If Israel agrees that Hamas did not violate the cease fire by launching any rockets, then perhaps it is time that you give up your personal uninformed propaganda that Hamas is to blame.



posted on Mar, 24 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


So if someone disagree's with your opinion, they are a zionist sock puppet?

(Deny Ignorance...PLease, and try sticking to the topic of the post)


This post is about the Hamas terrorists, Israeli victims of their terror and Egypt helping stop weapons and bombs getting to Hamas terrorists.

"give up your personal uninformed propaganda"
Personal attacks are not TAC and should not be allowed in any post-PLEASE remember this.



[edit on 3/24/2009 by mrmonsoon]



posted on Mar, 25 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 



So if someone disagree's with your opinion, they are a zionist sock puppet?


If they agree with the following opinion, they certainly are:

"1600 or 16 million it doesnt matter. Those 8 lives are to Israel worth more than all the Arab lives on the planet."

In addition to being blatantly xenophobic, bigots.

I'm supposed to take such an opinion as fact? Or a legitimate justification for war?


This post is about the Hamas terrorists, Israeli victims of their terror and Egypt helping stop weapons and bombs getting to Hamas terrorists.


I made this thread.

It's about whatever the hell people choose to discuss in it. Stop playing monday-morning quarterback.

When you become a moderator, let me know. Until then don't tell other people what they can and can't discuss.


"give up your personal uninformed propaganda" Personal attacks are not TAC and should not be allowed in any post-PLEASE remember this.


Funny, why didn't any mods censor my post then?

Don't quote the rules if you can't follow them. Everything I posted was well within TAC.

And thus ends your little power trip as a pretend moderator.



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