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Hamas leader: Israel has tricked us and the Egyptians

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posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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It is important not to forget that Israel created Hamas in the first place, as a counter to the PLO. Hamas was legally elected the government of Palestinians and Israel refuses to deal with something of their own creation. Ironic.

Israel wishes there to be TWO power groups within the Palestinian territories so they can dilute any chance of political unity.

Hamas has not launched thousands upon thousands of rockets into Israel. In the 8 years that rockets have been launched from Gaza, only about 8 Israelis have been killed. The rockets are small home made devices that are far more symbolic than military in nature. Israel just killed over 1300 people in Gaza in less than two weeks.

One should also not forget that Hamas had kept their part of the bargain, and ceased all rocket fire during the negotiated cease fire, and it was Israel that failed to uphold their half of the bargain, broke the ceasefire, and started the attacks on Gaza that lead to so many deaths. Israel has never shown any commitment to negotiate for peace with any sincerity. They routinely violate the Geneva Conventions, International laws, and UN Mandates, including the UN Mandate that created Israel in the first place.




posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by BorgHoffen
 



Or do you mean the corrupt evil dictators who have infiltrated there government?
Because they most certainly do not want peace.


Bingo.

Don't take the term "Israel" too literally. I think almost everyone here will agree (everyone that is opposed to Israel's foreign policy that is)...

Israel = the Zionist Right-wingers who have hijacked Israel's government in tandem with the American Jewish Lobby and it's closely supportive Republican friends.

I'm sure the Israelis want to stop seeing their sons and daughters being conscripted to go off to Gaza to die as much as the Gazans want to stop seeing their children being killed by the IDF.

I never denied both the Israelis and Palestinians wanted peace.

Both governments are the problem here.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


Israel never broke any agreement with Hamas...
Hamas were the ones who broke their cease fire agreement by launching rockets into Israel ALL YEAR...Israel acted very slowly in cobating Hamas. If it were any other country in the world they would have bombed Hamas as soon as the first rocket hit their territory, Israel stood for a year doing nothing.....



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by SKUNK2
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 
If it were any other country in the world they would have bombed Hamas as soon as the first rocket hit their territory


Why is it that Britain has not retaliated to the murder of two soldiers, a police officer and the attempted murder of two pizza delivery men over the last few weeks? Using your reasoning shouldn't Belfast be a smouldering ruin of death right about now?




Israel never broke any agreement with Hamas...


Yes, they did. They broke the cease fire that preceded the latest assault on Gaza in November by killing six Hamas members for starters...


[edit on 23-3-2009 by Goathief]



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by IAF101
 




Probably the most warped and biased view on the Israeli Palestine situation if there was one.


Right, and your name and signature just inspire so much credibility into what you're saying it's unbelievable.

We already have enough Zionist-thumpers on this thread as it is. Please, argue by presenting facts and proof or don't argue at all.

Facts or Proof ? You think the pathetic news articles you presented here as Proof or Fact ?
It would be asinine to assume so.

As for my biases, at least I have the common courtesy and the temerity to openly display what I believe. Unlike me, you're self proclaimed moral rectitude only extends towards camouflaging your own perverse preconceptions and biases forged from ignorance and naivety, as an informed opinion in some deluded attempt to convince others through your propaganda. Which of us then is more credible ?


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

As for the Palestinian people, the death and destruction they faced under Hamas rule is their OWN responsibility.


Remind me, when did the Palestinians ask the Israelis to bomb them back into the stone-age and killed thousands of their countrymen?
When did they ask Israel to block off the borders and cut off their food, medical and fuel supplies?

When they put their mark beside the words "HAMAS" in their polling booths.

When the Nazi's were "elected" in Germany that didnt stop the Allies from firebombing Dresden or invading Germany and turning Berlin into a pile of rubble. Are you saying what the allies did was wrong ? That Nazi's should have remained in power ??


Please spare us your feeble moral pandering . The Sad truth of this world is; ignorance in not bliss. Actions have consequences, if the Palestinians dont know this, that is their misfortune. When you are surrounded by a powerful neighbor and your lives are hell, any sane people wouldnt elect a government that would make their lives easier, unless they fundamentally supported that groups ideology. Just as the world wont tolerate rouge and terrorists states like the Taliban, Israel wont tolerate a terrorist state like Hamas's Palestine. This is not a news flash, it is common knowledge.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

The death and destruction they faced is their own responsibility. They know how Isreal and the world will respond and they did it anyway, they deserve the consequences.


Now did you really write that last bit that I emphasised or have I entered some parallel dimension here, where good is bad?

Yes, I wrote that. And as for parallel dimensions, I cannot judge the state of your existence, maybe you should indulge in some introspection ?



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
So in effect the Palestinians deserve to die because of their choice of votes in a democratic election?

They deserve everything they get from Israel and the IDF for making the wrong choice. That is the way life works. I am surprised that you find this to be a "revelation".

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
You actually believe this?

Yes, I do.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
That has just spoken to me volumes on how warped and deluded your thoughts really are.

That you believe people who vote for an elected representative, who decides to wage war against an illegal occupation and happens to kill people during warfare (as naturally that's what happens); deserve to die.

Apparently, you are the warped and gullible ignoramus who thinks Israel is an "illegal occupation" and people's choices in a polling booth dont affect them! Can you be anymore naive ?


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Let me reverse the tables here:
Does the American populace deserve to die for re-electing George Bush twice? A man who's actions have directly contributed to the death of a million people in Iraq?

The American populace would never shy away from taking responsibility for our mistakes be it Iraq or Vietnam, the mistakes made by our President are mistakes made by America as a whole.

When we went into Vietnam and thousands of soldiers died in the war, Americans accepted it as a consequence of our Presidents decision and voted "smarter" in the next election. Same goes with Iraq and the casualties. Not to mention the fact that it is because of our sense of responsibility that we didnt just cut and run leaving Iraq to implode but even when our allies essentially deserted, the US military took responsibility for our past decisions and did what was necessary.

Now as for your "facts". 1 million Iraqi civilians were NOT killed by the US military, you nor anybody else has proof of such outrageous claims, other than statistical projections and hearsay. Also, as for American civilians dying for re-electing George Bush, if anybody out in the world is/can make us do that for the policies of our Past President they are free to try and fail, we cower behind pathetic excuses or plead ignorance.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Military actions are beyond the control of the voting populace in any democracy, because the founding principle of democracy is that the right to wage war is reserved exclusively for the ruling party to deliberate on. The citizens of a democracy cannot be held responsible for their country's foreign policy, as they have virtually no say in it.

Absolute ignorant rubbish.
Military decisions are a function of elected executive (in a democracy!) . The decisions of the executive are made in keeping with general policies and with the consent of the legislature(who are again elected! ). So for the citizens to say, "dont bomb us, we didnt do anything" is NAIVE and RIDICULOUS to say the least, especially in a democracy. A state like China which is a communist tyranny, the situation is different, the people have no choice but to accept whatever their government does but that is not the case with a democracy. People cant just elect some crazed despot and expect to be shielded from any repercussions. That is a perverse fantasy that deluded and naive people believe. Of course, premeditated attacks on civilians is not allowed but it is ludicrous to say that they wont be affected.

You flagrant ignorance about the state of how the world works or even the basic concept of consequence is what is most shocking. Firstly, Hamas is not recognized as a government by Israel. Second, the IDF action in Gaza is considered a "police action" rather than war so standard rules of war need not apply. Lastly, being a terrorist organization who's main goal is to destroy the state of Israel, Israel is well within its rights to kill/ arrest every last Hamas member or sympathizer or supporter (those include the people who put them in power in the first place!) or impose any restrictions to help cease the normal functioning of a known terrorist entity that attacks them. Add to this the fact that their so called civilians actively provided shelter and aid to Hamas to conduct attacks on the citizens of Israel further proves their culpability.

In short they deserve every bomb that came their way.



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Your sad, misconstrued ideas only embody how fervently you believe in Zionist propaganda.


Zionist propaganda ??

Apparently, you claim to hold a position on the issue that is both morally and intellectually correct yet own naive logic doesnt answer why Israeli citizens needed to be subjected to rocket fire for months, not to mention suicide bombsings etc etc if as you say "citizens are not responsible for military actions by their leaders in a democracy" . Apparently, your argument is so fatuous that it doesnt take into account the other side of the issue of Israeli citizens being subjected to attacks by Palestinians "terrorist" and "elected officials".



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Next they tighten the noose around Gaza's borders and restrict the movement of food, fuel and vital aid shipments in November 2008, under the premise of "weapons smuggling".


1 - Egypt also closed the borders. Why aren't you whining about them?
2 - Weapons aren't 'vital aid shipments' and that's what those tunnels carry.
3 - No need to put weapons smuggling in quotes .. Hamas really does smuggle weapons in. Not food. Not medicine. Weapons.


they reject a Hamas-brokered ceasefire offer in December and perform another unauthorized raid on a tunnel between Hamas & Gaza in December 2008.

That's funny. Look at what you said. If Hamas really wanted peace they wouldn't have the illegal weapons smuggling tunnels going full tilt. And as far as 'unauthorized raid' upon them ...
Who are they going to get authorization from? Hamas? yeah, like Hamas is going to give permission to israel to shut down the weapons smuggling operations.

Hamas only uses ceasefires as a tool of war. They are just breaks that they call to regroup their troops and supplies when they are not in a winning situation.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
We already have enough Zionist-thumpers on this thread as it is.

Up to that point you had ONE person the the thread correcting the pro-Hamas group ... and you imply that that's one too many and that he's a 'zionist-thumper'??? :shk:


Remind me, when did the Palestinians ask the Israelis to bomb them back into the stone-age ...

Remind me, when did the so called 'palestinians' get bombed BACK INTO THE STONE AGE??? Never.


When did they ask Israel to block off the borders and cut off their food, medical and fuel supplies?

Every time that Hamas shot rockets into Israel trying to kill Israeli civilians. (thousands upon thousands of times) Every time Hamas opened another illegal arms shipment tunnel. Every time they sent a suicide bomber into a crowded group of Israeli civilians to try to kill as many as possible.


Your sad, misconstrued ideas only embody how fervently you believe in Zionist propaganda.

YOUR sad, misconstrued ideas only embody how fervently you believe in the Hamas propaganda. Backatchya.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Terapin
Hamas has not launched thousands upon thousands of rockets into Israel. In the 8 years that rockets have been launched from Gaza, only about 8 Israelis have been killed. The rockets are small home made devices that are far more symbolic than military in nature. Israel just killed over 1300 people in Gaza in less than two weeks.


What a naive argument!


So I am to believe that if they had Scud missiles or MRLS or some such they would NOT have used them to attack Israel ?? That these "rockets" are merely "symbolic". Why not use "bottle rockets" then ? Dont they know how to make bottle rockets ?? Do you think it's okay if Israel reciprocated in kind by dropping a nuke on Gaza in a "symbolic" gesture of their own ?


What a pathetic argument by the Palestinians terrorist apologists.

Hamas is using what ever technology and weapons they have to attack Israeli civilians. Are you saying that 8 Jewish lives are worth nothing ? This kind of perverse rationalization by terrorist apologists like you make me sick.
1600 or 16 million it doesnt matter. Those 8 lives are to Israel worth more than all the Arab lives on the planet. You cant place value on human life.


Originally posted by Terapin

One should also not forget that Hamas had kept their part of the bargain, and ceased all rocket fire during the negotiated cease fire, and it was Israel that failed to uphold their half of the bargain, broke the ceasefire, and started the attacks on Gaza that lead to so many deaths.

Apparently, a terrorist apologist has a terrible memory.


Hamas only stopped rocket attacks when it was convenient for them. They were busy smuggling weapons building tunnels to Egypt and buying weapons all the while Isreal pulled its citizens out of Gaza in a gesture of peace. But apparently, the Palestinians show their gratitude by rocket attacks and electing terrorists who intend to destroy Israel and Jews as their leaders.
Those kind of people are no better than terrorists and should be treated as such. They should be thankful that Israel yet again pulled out of Gaza after its police action against Hamas and its tunnel weapon smuggling network. Israel is well within its rights to occupy Gaza and go house to house Hamas hunting and arresting and detaining all and any people connected to Hamas in Gaza in order to protect their citizens from any more "symbolic gestures" by Hamas.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by IAF101
 



Facts or Proof ? You think the pathetic news articles you presented here as Proof or Fact ? It would be asinine to assume so.


As it is to assume that people are going to take the view of a self-affirmed Israel apologist/Zionist-supporter with any shred of credibility, when talking about Israel's contributions to the peace process.

At least I'm referencing what I'm saying, instead of just pulling it out of my rectum and presenting it on a platter.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... the Mainstream Media is all bunch of no-good, liberal, terrorist sympathisers, so which sources would you take seriously?

Ehud Olmert? Tzipi Livni? The words of IDF?

Who all have it in their best interests to blame absolutely everything on Hamas and absolve themselves of any wrongdoing, and to keep prying eyes away from freakishly, Nazi-like tactics used in Gaza.


at least I have the common courtesy and the temerity to openly display what I believe.


Oh thank you for making it clear you were a fanatical Zionist!
We are all in your debt.

Nobody on this thread could have guessed. Your so open-minded and rational and display a stunning sense of compassion.



Which of us then is more credible ?


Pssst, a little hint: Not the guy with the "ISRAEL I STAND TALL WITH YOU" banner.


When the Nazi's were "elected" in Germany that didnt stop the Allies from firebombing Dresden or invading Germany and turning Berlin into a pile of rubble.


Please stop quoting history when you have no knowledge of it.

Hitler came to power via emergency powers (the Enabling Act) granted to him after he STAGED THE REICHSTAG FIRE, and blamed it on alleged "Communist" elements within Germany and proclaimed a state of Martial Law.

The German people NEVER elected him as Chancellor and they never had the chance to elect another political party before he abolished them all, and turned Germany into a dictatorship.

Stop equating the actions of the government so directly to the citizenry, unless you also presume every Israeli citizen is a war criminal by virtue of the actions perpetrated by the IDF on direct orders from their government?

Hmmm you wouldn't agree in that case would you? No.


Are you saying what the allies did was wrong ? That Nazi's should have remained in power ??


Killing civilians in military conflicts IS ALWAYS WRONG.

I know the IDF may present a good case for exterminating civilian populations in warfare (i.e. something along the lines of Hamas= every Civilian) but down here on Earth, that's shared by both left and right-wingers as a war crime and total miscarriage of justice, even in chaotic warfare.

Toppling the Nazi Regime is one thing, killing indiscriminately innocent German people who had about as much power to influence Germany's foreign policy under Hitler as Britain did is a completely different matter.

And not something to be applauded and revelled in, as a necessary consequence of war.


When you are surrounded by a bloodthirsty neighbour and your lives are hell thanks to Israel , any sane people wouldnt elect a government that would do absolutely nothing to resist Israeli occupation, unless they fundamentally believed Israel wants peace. Just as America wont tolerate rouge and terrorists states who stand in the way of their global hegemony, Israel wont tolerate recognising the Palestinian people's elections because they didn't vote the way Israel wanted them to. This is not a news flash, it is not-so-common knowledge.


I corrected your above quote to reflect what you actually meant to say, since you are, as you claim, "a man of your word, who doesn't mince them".


They deserve everything they get from Israel and the IDF for making the wrong choice. That is the way life works. I am surprised that you find this to be a "revelation".


Fair enough.

I'll take your whackjob logic and say: "The Israeli people deserve every rocket attack that lands in Israel for making the wrong choice and supporting their government's criminal, military actions, which have resulted in over 1,000 Palestinian deaths."

Sounds very reasonable right? Good, glad we agree.



Apparently, you are the warped and gullible ignoramus who thinks Israel is an "illegal occupation"


When's the last time you took a look at a map?



No need to put it in quotes, once the Israelis cross the Palestinian authority border they are illegally occupying another country.


The American populace would never shy away from taking responsibility for our mistakes be it Iraq or Vietnam, the mistakes made by our President are mistakes made by America as a whole.




Yeah that's why they're organising massive "We're Sorry" rallies all across the United States this year, in order to exonerate themselves of the travesty of re-electing George Bush twice and to apologise for the Iraq War.


Americans accepted it as a consequence of our Presidents decision and voted "smarter" in the next election.


Yeah APART from the 60% or so of the population who protested all over Washington against Vietnam, refused to be drafted and demanded an American withdrawal.

Yes apart from those people, everyone accepted Vietnam as a mere "consequence" of Presidential directives.


Not to mention the fact that it is because of our sense of responsibility that we didnt just cut and run leaving Iraq to implode but even when our allies essentially deserted,


You mean when our allies realised they were also duped by the US into thinking Iraq really had WMD's and posed a grave threat, when in fact no WMD's were found?

Oh our "mighty" sense of responsibility sure did keep us from bailing out on Iraq; the Bush Administration's responsibilities to the Petroleum Industry and their neck-deep-in-Oil Republican friends like Dick Cheney prevented us from leaving Iraq until we've sucked them dry of any black gold.

You sure can dredge up irrelevant nonsense and spin it into gold can't you?


1 million Iraqi civilians were NOT killed by the US military, you nor anybody else has proof of such outrageous claims, other than statistical projections and hearsay.


Yeah nobody but me believes in this, expect 4 independent survey groups who all concur with their "statistical hearsay":

www.alertnet.org...
www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.projectcensored.org...

I'm just pulling this from thin air aren't I?


Military decisions are a function of elected executive (in a democracy!) . The decisions of the executive are made in keeping with general policies and with the consent of the legislature(who are again elected! ).


Yes. "Elected".

The same way President Obama "chose" Rahm Emmanuel to be White House Chief of Staff, and didn't do it because he was bowing to overwhelming pressure from Jewish Lobbyist groups who hold Congress hostage.

In reality the term 'Elected' means bought out by special interest groups and big businesses like the Oil Industry or Banking firms, people who really pull the strings behind the scenes of the glamorous facade of "Democracy".
When you boil it down, the citizens don't have a chance.


Second, the IDF action in Gaza is considered a "police action" rather than war so standard rules of war need not apply.


By who?

Police Action?
Yes they're rounding up the no-good bag snatchers and dope dealers of Gaza and locking them up.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by IAF101
 



Of course, premeditated attacks on civilians is not allowed but it is ludicrous to say that they wont be affected.


This IS premeditated. That's what you, my tightly blindfolded, Zionist friend, fail to realise.

The Knesset had the Gaza Offensive in the works and on the shelves since 2007, desperately baiting Hamas and waiting for them to step up their attacks in response to constant Israeli aggression so they could use it as justification to launch another collective punishment operation just in time for the 2008 Israeli elections, to garner support for the right-wing parties.


Firstly, Hamas is not recognized as a government by Israel.


Yeah and?

So this gives them to right to waltz into the Palestinian authority and do as they please?
Not recognising a legitimately elected government is one thing, not recognising basic human morality in warfare is another.

Just because they see Hamas as an illegitimate government doesn't mean they can wipe the Palestinians off the map.
Hamas doesn't view Israel as legitimate either, does that give them the right to kill Israeli citizens too?

Hypocrisy seems to be the mantra of your bizarre logic.


Second, the IDF action in Gaza is considered a "police action" rather than war so standard rules of war need not apply.


Grow up.

And 50% of the American population isn't obese, they're just "well-rounded".

Twist and spin the terms around whichever way you like, but if it quacks like a duck... then guess what?


Lastly, being a terrorist organization who's main goal is to destroy the state of Israel, Israel is well within its rights to kill/ arrest every last Hamas member or sympathizer or supporter (those include the people who put them in power in the first place!)


Just the like Nazis were well within their God given rights to round up every Communist, Jew, Gypsy and Slav in Germany and send them to concentration camps because they were all collectively responsible for setting the Reichstag ablaze.

I suppose you consider the American colonial militias who waged a long campaign to free America from the British monarchy terrorists as well, no doubt?

Blah, blah, blahhhhhh..... all of these so called "justifications" and "grounds for military action" come from ONE SOURCE: Israel.

No one else in their right mind, in the world asserts the right to kill the civilians of another country for electing a particular government who's foreign policy they disagree with.

But it seems "God's chosen people" are living in their own little fantasy land where no civilised laws need apply.


Add to this the fact that their so called civilians actively provided shelter and aid to Hamas to conduct attacks on the citizens of Israel further proves their culpability.

In short they deserve every bomb that came their way.


Who am I talking to here, the Einszatgruppen?

What was Caesar's quote again... "The conquered emulate the conqueror".

People like you are just helping me to realise this especially applies to the case of the Jewish population of Europe who suffered at the hands of the Nazis, and their subsequent brutal actions after founding the state of Israel.

The oppressed will resist. That's not Islam, Hamas or the Palestinians talking; that's human friggin' nature.

Of course they'll do whatever's within their power to stop their children and land being taken away by an illegal occupying power.

What should they be doing Mr. Armchair General?
Bending over and taking it like a man? Waving Israeli flags?

You couldn't get any more detached from reality if you tried....


why Israeli citizens needed to be subjected to rocket fire for months, not to mention suicide bombsings etc etc if as you say "citizens are not responsible for military actions by their leaders in a democracy"


The same reason the people of Gaza don't need to subjected to the collective punishment of the IDF, for the actions of a military wing of Hamas they have absolutely no control over.


Are you saying that 8 Jewish lives are worth nothing ? This kind of perverse rationalization by terrorist apologists like you make me sick.


They're certainly not worth 1,500 Palestinian lives any day of the week.

14 dead Israelis. 1,500 (or more, we'll never know) dead Palestinians.

How can you possibly rationalise that? You call that unfair?

Hamas doesn't even have 1,500 members within it's ranks. 1 Israeli life is never worth more than any other Palestinian life.

[edit on 23/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by IAF101
 


I wanted to post this quote separately, just to emphasis what kind of horridly racist, xenophobic views Zionists use to justify the mass killing of civilians.


1600 or 16 million it doesnt matter. Those 8 lives are to Israel worth more than all the Arab lives on the planet.


8 Israeli lives are worth more than all the combined Arab lives on the planet?

Please confirm that you really did indeed type this of your free will and it wasn't some grotesque computer error.

Why are you trying to purposefully discredit yourself so badly? What is this reverse psychology?

If you wanted to shoot yourself in the foot then: Mission Accomplished.

And then as if that's not hypocritical and biased enough, and just plainly and utterly racist rhetoric, you go onto say:


You cant place value on human life.




I could make an exception for yours, that's for certain.
One stroke of the pen would suffice I think.

[edit on 23/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Your so open-minded and rational and display a stunning sense of compassion.

Careful. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
just to emphasis what kind views Zionists use to justify the mass killing of civilians.

And do you justify the thousands upon thousands of rockets that rain down on Israel in an attempt at mass killing of Israeli Civilians? And do you justify the hundreds of suicide bombers that have mass killed Israel Civilians?

Again ... glass houses and stones ....

Edited to add -

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
I corrected your above quote to reflect what you actually meant to say,

You aren't supposed to do that.

[edit on 3/23/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Wow, is that step away to distance yourself from the deluded ramblings of your ultra-Orthodox, right-wing, Zionist preaching friend there?

Did you actually have a slip of conscience for a second?


And do you justify the thousands upon thousands of rockets that rain down on Israel in an attempt at mass killing of Israeli Civilians? And do you justify the hundreds of suicide bombers that have mass killed Israel Civilians?


Remind me, do they give a nobel prize for "Attempted Chemistry"?

Yes attempted rocket attacks, that only actually killed 14 Israeli citizens.

You guys really don't like having that number shoved in your face do you?
Even a Zionist can see 14 and 1,500 are indeed Apples and Oranges.

I never justify the killing civilians or bother attempting to, I'm not trying to purposefully make myself out into some kind of bigot.

Unlike your friend Dr. Goebbels over there, who believes 8 Israeli lives are worth every single Arab on the planet.

Man, these threads are just bringing out the worst Zionists out of the woodwork aren't they?



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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Please discuss the topic of the thread and quit baiting or attacking your fellow members.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

This thread will now be closely watched. Any more personal attacks will be deleted.

mrwupy
ATS Moderator.



[edit on 23-3-2009 by mrwupy]



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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People, think, just try to think for a second.

The Palestine terrorists want 1000 terrorists to be released in exchange for 1 man.

Does that sound reasonable to you???????


If they really wanted peace, why don't they try something like 1 terrorist for 1 captured man.

That sounds fair and reasonable.

When and "IF" the terrorists actually make a "REALISTIC" offer, they may find a very different reaction.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Yes attempted rocket attacks, that only actually killed 14 Israeli citizens.

Thousands and thousands of rockets. Hundreds of suicide bombings. All in an attempt to mass kill Israeli civilians. That's the purpose of the rockets and bombers. Mass murder of Israeli civilians. If the Israeli death toll is lower then the so called 'palestinian' one then it's not for a lack of trying on the part of Hamas.

Those illegal Hamas tunnels are not bringing in food or medicine. They are bringing in weapons. Weapons that are used to try to kill Israeli civilians. Weapons that are fired while hiding behind the 'palestinian' civilians - the human shields.

Hamas has brought the current situation down upon itself.

Their behavior is so bad that Egypt, Syria and Jordan want to make sure they don't go into their countries. They've done it to themselves... everywhere they go.



[edit on 3/23/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


If you bothered to read previous posts; nobody said the road to Peace is going to easy, and fair and uncompromising for both sides.

Like I said before:

You talk about how Israel is trading 400 prisoners for 1 and call it "unfair"; who said sacrifices wouldn't have to be made?
Israel has to show the Palestinians they're willing to compromise to do what's in the best interests of the future generations.

And considering the fact that the people of Gaza have sacrificed food, running water, electricity, medical aid and shelter, I think it's Israel's turn to start making some compromises here.

Instead of always pretending to play victim.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Israel has to show the Palestinians they're willing to compromise to do what's in the best interests of the future generations.

They already have. And it was thrown in their face.

When Hamas gives up it's rocket attacks and stops the suicide bombers and closes their illegal arms smuggling tunnels FOR REAL and FOR GOOD .. then a real discussion about peace can happen. But of course Hamas won't do that. They are in the BUSINESS of war. Peace would put them out of work and out of power. They don't want that. Arafat (the rapist of little boys) made that very clear.


considering the fact that the people of Gaza have sacrificed food, running water, electricity, medical aid and shelter,

They didn't 'sacrifice' those things. They have them just fine. And if they didn't have them for a few weeks while Israel retaliated, then it was their own damn fault and they THREW THEM AWAY .. they didn't sacrifice them.

There is a major difference between sacrifice and throwing away.
The so-called 'palestinians' throw it all away. That's not sacrifice.



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



If the Israeli death toll is lower then the so called 'palestinian' one then it's not for a lack of trying on the part of Hamas.


Yes exactly, it's because Hamas has been so beaten down and their offensive capabilities so dramatically reduced by Israeli military action they are physically incapable anymore of inflicting this so called "Mass Murder of Israeli Citizens" you speak of.

And yet people like yourself still claim that Israel has the right to further military action to keep it's people safe from bottle rockets that are just by blind luck, actually killing anyone.

When is it going to be enough? When Israel drops a nuke on Gaza and then salts the Earth afterwards?


Those illegal Hamas tunnels are not bringing in food or medicine.


I'm not going to deny that some of those tunnels are in fact being used to smuggle weapons.

But a good majority are a being used to bring in desperately needed aid supplies, which just cannot pass through the Gazan borders anymore.


The 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza regard the tunnels as a vital lifeline to the outside world, from which they are otherwise almost completely shut off by the Israeli military’s control of land, sea and air access to the north, east and west of Gaza. To the south, Gaza has been sealed off by Egypt.

thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...


Hundreds of tunnels under the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt are keeping many of the Palestinian territory's 1.5 million impoverished residents supplied with food and fuel.

On Saturday, Egyptian authorities found the entrances of three tunnels and confiscated a large amount of fuel about to be smuggled into the territory.

Sources say there are more than 6,000 Palestinians employed in the clandestine industry, which merchants say is heavily controlled by the Hamas authorities.

english.aljazeera.net...


More than 37,000 tons of staple foodstuff and emergency medical supplies entered the Gaza Strip through one Israeli crossing from the time Israel began its military offensive until it declared a unilateral cease-fire on January 17.

Illegal smuggling tunnels dug underground across the Egyptian-Gazan border have become the economic lifeline of Gazans. Palestinians argue that because Israel sealed off the crossing points into and out of the Gaza Strip, the tunnels are the sole means of bringing food and necessities into Gaza.

The number of tunnels has grown since Hamas came to power through a military coup in June 2007, drawing international isolation and a restriction of goods coming in from Israel.

Tunnels have been used to bring in anything and everything, from basic foodstuffs to cigarettes, dollars and live animal stock.

www.allheadlinenews.com...



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by IAF101
 



Hamas is an illegal government in Gaza which Israel doesnt recognize. There is no truce or anything with such a terrorist group. Also, Hamas has never recognized the right of Israel to exist in the first place, its main function is to destroy Israel. How can Israel even recognize such a group ?


Well, sounds like you are both even, because Israel is an illegal government which Hamas does not recognize. Israel too was born of terrorist groups, as opposed to the Palestinians who were forced into terrorism, because of how Israel was born through terrorism…

You reap what you sew!

By the way I was born in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, of Irish/English/Polish ancestry and I don’t really recognize Israel’s right to exist, first and foremost for the political deceptions involved in the Balfour agreement, and furthermore because the Zionists broke the treaties that allowed for their immigration and peaceful settlement, by using terrorism against the lawful British authorities and the indigenous Palestinians.




Moreover the Tunnels are illegal violations of international borders. Israel has every right to secure its borders. Not to mention, Hamas were the ones who were foolish enough to run away to Gaza and then decided to launch thousands upon thousands of rockets into Israel for months. Did they really expect no retaliations ? If they did they were fools.


Alright now, did Israel give land to the Palestinians or not to for their own state? Because if they did, they aren’t Israel’s borders, and that would be an issue between Gaza and Egypt who share that international border, now if they didn’t actually cede Palestinians the land for a self governed state then yes, they would be Israel’s borders but it would have just exposed yet another Israeli/Zionist lie to go along with about 100 years of nothing but lies. Yes I do believe they expected retaliations in the hopes of exposing mentalities, predilections and lies like the ones you have done such a great job hastily explaining. I personally think, because I have personally witnessed, Israel loosing more and more grassroots support every day and I think Hamas is playing your predisposed ever so predictable responses and reactions like a fiddle, to finally cut Israel off from the financial and military support that allows them to break every promise, conduct terrorist campaigns, murder international diplomats, steal land and abuse human rights. What a pity that Hamas or anyone would take objection to such behavior let alone risk life and limb to try to see that it stops?




As for the Palestinian people, the death and destruction they faced under Hamas rule is their OWN responsibility. Just like how the Germans suffered after WW2 because of Nazi rule. They Palestinians who elected Hamas CHOOSE to put their fate in the hands of terrorists. The death and destruction they faced is their own responsibility. They know how Isreal and the world will respond and they did it anyway, they deserve the consequences.


Interesting analogy, of course by those standards anyone on the loosing end of a political struggle deserves to die…so if the Jews lost and suffered in the Holocaust it was deserved? After all the Jews who decided to stop supporting the German state that they lived in after the Balfour Declaration and made direct international appeals to Jews throughout the world doing business with the Kaiser’s government and funding their war effort, who then later used their control of the German State’s Central Bank to grin the German War Machine starved of funding to a halt, so England could win on the European Battlefield and go conquest Palestine and to defeat the Ottoman Turks who ruled it so Jews could immigrate into Palestine, and of course the Jews that once again used their control of the Central German Reserve Bank to force Germany to accept the bankrupting and humiliating terms of the Treaty of Versailles, negotiated in the very home of the Lord Rothschild the Balfour Declaration was personally addressed to, and the Jews who then tried to usher Communism into the German State in the economic chaos left by the treaty, might have kind of then deserved the retribution the German State meted out to them, according to your philosophy of kick the dog expect it to bite you?

I just so love the insane and perverted double standards employed by Israel and it’s supporters in every last repugnant and vile thing they do! It really reaffirms my faith that cesspools will always exist.

Thankfully the lack of civilized manners, social norms, honor, and diplomatic skills that don’t center on political extortion and financial manipulation will no doubt as they always have throughout history leave Israel in ruins and the Jews of the world looking for another outhouse to turn into a cesspool. You certainly have done an exemplary job at making the Middle East a beautiful, tranquil and wonderfully safe place to live. Keep up what you call the good work!

Pretty soon no one will recognize Israel’s right to exist. And of course as you say, thank yourself!



posted on Mar, 23 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Hamas has been so beaten down and their offensive capabilities so dramatically reduced by Israeli military action

The reason Hamas' OFFENSIVE capablities are being hit so hard are because they are just that .. OFFENSIVE .. and they are continually being used against Israeli Civilians.


they are physically incapable anymore of inflicting this so called "Mass Murder of Israeli Citizens" you speak of.

There is nothing 'so called' about their attempts at mass murder.


And yet people like yourself

People like myself ... people who are right.


still claim that Israel has the right to further military action to keep it's people safe from bottle rockets...

They aren't 'bottle rockets'. They are rockets that are intended to kill Israeli civilians. No matter how you try to spin otherwise.


When is it going to be enough?

When Hamas grows up ... stops trying to kill Israeli civilians ... and learns how to get along in the world.


But a good majority are a being used to bring in desperately needed aid supplies, which just cannot pass through the Gazan borders anymore.

That's bunk. And your source is a left wing blog.

Those tunnels are illegal arms supply routes. Period.

And If Hamas really cared about the so-called 'palestinians' then they wouldn't be trying to mass murder israelis. They wouldn't be hiding behind the palestinian people after the attacks. They'd learn how to get along in the world. But of course, all they want is war or they'd be put out of business.





[edit on 3/23/2009 by FlyersFan]



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