Israeli Soldiers Allege Indiscriminate Killing in Gaza

Israeli Soldiers Allege Indiscriminate Killing in Gaza

news.yahoo.com

[...] Among other claims, the soldiers alleged that an Israeli sniper had shot a woman and her two children who walked in the wrong direction after being ordered out of their home by Israeli troops. In a second incident, a sniper supposedly killed an unarmed elderly woman who posed no apparent threat to Israeli troops. And the soldiers ascribed these incidents to overly permissive rules of engagement.

(visit the link for the full news article)

There is no excuse for such behavior anywhere in the world. When Palestinians claimed that Israeli soldiers were indiscriminately killing innocents, the world ignored them. When UN officials claimed Israeli soldiers were indiscriminately killing civilians, the media tried to discredit them. Now when you have Israeli soldiers admitting that they were indiscriminately killing civilians, what else is left to ignore?

I don't know which is worse - the world allowing these soldiers to get away free without any reprehension or that there are groups out there support these actions.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Yeah I read this earlier, I was wondering when it would show up here.

They said all of this without any proof, but since it speaks out against Isreal it must be true. No need to have actual proof, word of mouth is gold regarding this subject.

Originally posted by jd140
Yeah I read this earlier, I was wondering when it would show up here.

They said all of this without any proof, but since it speaks out against Isreal it must be true. No need to have actual proof, word of mouth is gold regarding this subject.

Israeli soldier testimony to things they witnessed within the war doesn't suffice as proof anymore?

As easy as you would like to brush this off as a thread made to "speak out against Israel," why don't you look at the number of witnesses who say events like these occurred, rather than ignore it?

reply to post by DJMessiah



It says in the article that it is allegations only.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

Considering that the Talmud teaches the Jews that it is a good and proper thing to lie to the goy (the nonJews) and deceive them, I do not believe anything that Israel says.

Considering that Israel attacked the USS Liberty during LBJ's watch in order to sink the ship and all the sailors on it in order to blame Egypt and start WWIII, we already know what kind of country Israel is.

Considering the Dancing Israelis of 9/11 and their part in 9/11 as an inside job in order to provide an excuse to attack innocent Arabs and take over the world for Israel, why should anybody listen to these murdering people who think they are collectively God on Earth and are about one inch away from creating their hellish New World Order "utopia" complete with their phony antichrist messiah ruling from Jerusalem in a rebuilt Solomon's Temple.

Israel is brutal, they lie like a rug, and they just need to get out of Israel and give the land back to the people they stole it from. They don't need it. Most Jews live right in America and wouldn't live in Israel if you paid them to. They just use it as a badlands center to bring on the Fourth Reich tyranny and to infiltrate the rest of the world with their Mossad and provacateurs and agents of the British Zionists who own the Federal Reserve.

The Bible calls it the Synagogue of Satan, says Jerusalem in the last days is as "Sodom and Egypt" (read Rev. 11).

Poor Israel. NOT.

We've heard the propaganda in the Zionist owned media for years and years, and most of us fell for it hook, line and sinker, but now thanks to the Internet a lot of us are waking up. Hopefully enough will wake up in time to stop WWIII, and our death and imprisonment in the detention camps the Zionists have built for all of us.

Well I'm just shocked. [/sarcasm]

Watching all those feeds of cluster and freefall munitions being dropped all over Gaza city with "pin-point" accuracy, I could have never thought civilians would wind up being indiscriminately killed.

Who could expect this behaviour from the IDF? The world's most moral military force.

The same military force with a long track record of "accidentally" killing civilians in order to nail a few insurgents:
1996 Shelling of Qana: 106 Civilians killed
2006 Qana Airstrike: 50 Civilians killed
2006 Chyah Airstrike: 61 Civilians killed
2006 Ghaziyeh airstrikes: 15 Civilians killed
2006 2006 Marjayoun convoy: 7 Civilians killed

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by DJMessiah

 

It says in the article that it is allegations only.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

Sorry, but I think people have extended the benefit of the doubt to Israel more than enough times to learn that the IDF will routinely cover up civilian casualties as "accidents", "mistakes", or outright denials.

You have to be pretty sheltered and dense to believe as the IDF does that Hamas was actually the catalyst for over 1,000 civilian deaths in Israel's recent occupation.

Because of course, Hamas's mighty airforce was dropping munitions left & right across Gaza's crowded urban areas, not Israel's.

[edit on 22/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by DJMessiah

 

It says in the article that it is allegations only.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

Since when did "innocent until proven guilty" apply to war, when the country's military makes a preemptive strike on another just to keep the other country weak? Are the people we have in Guantanamo "innocent until proven guilty?"

reply to post by DJMessiah



Sure it applies to them.

Thats why I think we should keep GITMO open, retool it and start the trials for those who warrant a trial and release those who warrant release into their own country.

edit to add- You think we should take the soldiers word for it and consider them guilty?

[edit on 22-3-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by jd140

You think we should take the soldiers word for it and consider them guilty?

I didn't know you were in Gaza.

Why don't you tell us what you saw Israeli soldiers doing then?

I'd sure as hell take their words over yours anyday...

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Prove to me that they really talked to a soldier and didn't make it up?

My point is that right now these are allegations and we are considering them guilty based on someone who might be a disgruntle soldier for all we know.

reply to post by jd140


It's not going to happen for the simple reason that if the men in 'Gitmo' are found innocent, the isolation, torture, and imprisonment the US put on the men would lead the men to retaliate in revenge. The US took those men away from their families, locked them up without any evidence that they're guilty, and didn't even charge them with a crime so that they can have people who can give them any information -whether real or fictional.

If the men are innocent, then the US put innocent men in jail to turn them into the terrorists they wanted to capture in the first place. This is why so many politicians want the prisoners to stay in prison, because they know that some are innocent, and they know that when released, the people will think the US is evil for locking them up.

Going back to the evidence pertaining to the Israeli soldiers killing civilians, one soldier specifically stated that his superiors allowed them to kill civilians:

"Aviv explained that his commanders had blurred the boundaries between combatants and civilians: "From [the officers] above, they said it was permissible, because anyone who remained ...inside Gaza City was, in effect, incriminated, a terrorist, because they hadn't fled," Aviv alleged.

The elderly lady who was killed is not a fictional event. The Israeli goverment admits that she died, but they're investigating the event.

Now that account is just from a single soldier alone. There are six who have come forward to Haaretz, but how many others are out there who have yet to speak?

[edit on Sun Mar 22nd 2009 by DJMessiah]

reply to post by DJMessiah


On the GITMO thing. You only asked what I thought, not what will probably happen.

Like I said. Its allegations right now. We don't know anything other then what this soldier is saying. I said in my previous post that for all we know he is a disgruntle soldier trying to get back at his commander.

Allegations does not equal guilt, no matter how much we dislike someone.

I will wait for the investigation to end and more evidence before I assume guilt.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by jd140]

Originally posted by jd140
Like I said. Its allegations right now. We don't know anything other then what this soldier is saying. I said in my previous post that for all we know he is a disgruntle soldier trying to get back at his commander.

It's not one soldier who is claiming this, it's six soldiers. These soldiers spoke about what happened at their academy. Did you read the article?

The six soldiers, whose identity is being kept confidential, made their claims in an address last month to cadets of the Yitzhak Rabin military academy, of which they are graduates.

A soldier identified as Aviv from the Givati Brigade, one of Israel's elite combat units, reportedly described to the military cadets his inner conflict over obeying orders to use indiscriminate firepower while clearing out an eight-story apartment building. "We were supposed to ... burst through the lower door, start shooting inside and then ... I call this murder... in effect, we were supposed to go up floor by floor, and any person we identified, we were supposed to shoot. I initially asked myself: Where is the logic in this?"

reply to post by jd140

Prove to me that they really talked to a soldier and didn't make it up?

My point is that right now these are allegations and we are considering them guilty based on someone who might be a disgruntle soldier for all we know.

I'm not saying I don't believe in proving things beyond a reasonable doubt, and I would like to extend that same doubt to the IDF but Israel's track record in the matter of civilian deaths speaks volumes on their future propensity to carelessly kill innocent people.

You only need to look at examples like the Shelling of Qana, Sabra & Shatilah massacres, the Chyah Airstrike, the Marjayoun convoy or their incursion into Lebanon in 2006 to know that his sort of behaviour is not above them in any way.

It's not just soldiers bringing this to light, there is coordinated effort from the UN, and other special interest human rights groups to bring charges against Israel for war crimes:

www.reuters.com...
www.itongadol.com.ar...
www.periodico26.cu...

reply to post by DJMessiah

It's not one soldier who is claiming this, it's six soldiers.

Actually 15, according to this article:

www.guardian.co.uk...

[edit on 22/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Wow, I'm shocked. I see it is the Israeli soldiers themselves who are blowing the whistle on their own military atrocities.

Fantastic. There's hope.