Originally posted by paraphi
I'm not necessarily on the side of the US in all things but I think blaming the US for the current state of North Korea is rather silly.
Well who could be on the side of the US? I would consider that as least as silly as you believe my stance on North Korea to be!
North Korea is how it is because (a) it is led by a lunatic (b) it is led by a lunatic. This conspiratorial "US national security state"
is plain bo**ocks and has clearly blinded you to the obvious.
Lunatics start wars they could not possibly win and do all kinds of other silly things North Korea clearly didn't do. Fact is North Koreans were fed,
if not to the point of obesity or very good health, up until the late 90's and had economic conditions and stability that many, many, many countries
of the world aspires to. As for their economic system who's pointing fingers in a time when financial capitalism is shown to be based on mostly
creative book keeping and trading agreements?
As for the US national security state how else would you explain the invasion of two countries that never directly threatened the USA or could be
shown to be involved with terror attacks against the US at home?
If the US does not want to trade with these failed and unfriendly states then so-be-it.
They are hardly failed states. To see a failed state you have to look at the dozen of third world capitalist states, not the few that manages some
form of collectivism. While we are at this why should they try to be 'friendly' when their peace overtures have been systematically rejected for
decades? Didn't they cancel the inspector programs they allowed in 2003 AFTER the USA invaded Iraq as well? I mean would you allow the Russians to
look at your nuclear research facilities when they move on to their second victim in as many years? Aren't you making a value judgement based on the
fact that North Korea deserves no rights under international law and have legal claim to self defense? Why?
The United Nations have imposed sanctions against North Korea, so has the EU.
And we all know those agencies are so very independent and that the US does not have a veto power in at least one of them.
Humanitarian food-aid has been supplied to the tin-pot dictatorship of North Korea since c.1998 when they first asked for help. North Korean
policies and politics have resulted in hundreds of thousands of their population starving and c. 60% of North Korean children are
Severe episodes of draught and floods created the famine as proven by the fact that the country was largely self sufficient in food before those
incidents. North Korean policies and politics have created many problems and played a part in the virtual famines but it certainly wasn't the
causative factor as proved by their decades of self reliance. As for the claim that 60% of Children are malnourished i have seen no reason to believe
that when the same type of accusations have been made against Cuba and every other country that doesn't follow the capitalist mantra of only letting
those without money starve.
The regime still thinks it right to invest in a nuclear weapons programme... For crying out loud, stop blaming the US for this megalomaniac
regime which has no regard for their citizens.
Well how do you propose it defends itself against the very real possibility of a US attack? Didn't the US invade Iraq which also had significant
armed forces as well as those claimed WOMD? I mean what can these dissident regimes do other than arming themselves in self defense? Why shouldn't i
blame the only country ( beside Israel and Georgia as i recall) that started wars of aggression against internal population groups of foreign
countries? Is it not a fact that the US have bombed and invaded a dozen countries in the same half century where North Korea didn't attack a sole?
Who's the lunatic regime?
That’s absolute rubbish. Your average North Korean had NO security, if you consider the threat of summary execution by the secret police
You shouldn't believe everything you read. I will restate , as it is a fact, that North Koreans had modest but secure lifestyles for most of the last
half century. The summary executions mostly happened in the us backed or sponsored dictatorial client states such as those in South America, Africa
and much of South East Asia. It was in South Korea that summary executions and mass arrests were normal before the Koran war started as South Koreans
did not want to be part of the capitalist rampart in South east Asia. They didn't get much of a choice and there is quite a large volume of work
documenting the crimes the Southern ( Consisting of Japanese collaborators and some of the old Japanese managers) regime against it's citizens to
maintain the artificial separation. Not something you heard about but yes, that's no surprise.
The South Korean economy developed because it has not been styled on the failed communist model...
The south Korean economy developed because it was in the interest of the US to provide a stable military platform in that country. Even then South
Korea lagged behind North Korea for the first two decades showing that central planning is not the sole reason why centrally planned economies fail.
Any economy that is burdened by massive self defensive spending can run into severe problems and if the US on it's side and Russia and China on
'their' side didn't pick up some of the economic cost both economies would have been in far worse shape. Having said that the central reason is
still mostly related to the constant threat of NATO violence.
Furthermore, what’s wrong with the US providing a friendly state (i.e. South Korea) with aid to pump prime their economy?
Because South Korea were a dictatorship up until very recently, not as bad as in the North but no democracy by any stretch of the imagination. The
pretense that South Korea is a model society and North Korea the anti-model is the same old cold war propaganda you should by know have stopped
Ah ha – your true colours.
Yes, i don't like imperial nations. What a revelation!
Of course if you were a woman in Afghanistan
They had plenty of rights in Afghanistan under the pro soviet government back in 70's before the US government started funding the medieval age
warlords ( some religious, some not so much) who refuses to do away with the peasant and crop sharing system that made them rich in the first place.
With the US funding, and some mismanagement by the progressive government, these warlords were succeeding in destabilising the government which then
asked the USSR for assistance in putting down the rebellion. As the USSR understood who were funding it and didn't care for the failed efforts of
client government they moved in. So yes, Afghan women, like Russian women, had more rights and freedoms back in 1975 than they did under the Taliban
or have now.
The idea that the US intervention is always, or often, progressive is one of those mythologies that is so entrenched in the mind of Americans ( and
many, many others) that i don't have much of a idea as to how to start undoing it. I suppose i will just have to keep posting.
or a Kurd,
The worse atrocities were committed against the Kurds while the US were selling weapons and intelligence to Iraq as to how best to fight Iran. The
Kurds didn't matter then or mattered much when the US allowed Iraqi planes and army units to put down the rebellion ( that the CIA instigated)
towards the end of the first gulf war. The Kurds didn't matter then and still don't matter when they get in the way of the current US foreign policy
aims. The US national security doctrine is NOT progressive and does not seek to create democracy anywhere.
or one of the hundreds of thousands of Muslims butchered by Saddam Hussein, or a child looking for a future with a degree hope (etc) then you
may well take a contrary view.
Hundreds of thousands? You mean Iranians? Well the US supplied him with satellite intelligence thus being able to shift sufficient manpower to block
Iranian operations. That killed more Muslims than SH ever did kill in Iraq. Why didn't the US protest the tyranny of SH back in the late 60's and
70's when he killed off or ousted the reformist and truly progressive elements of the Baath party? Please go read some REAL history and stop wasting
our time with this old cold war , now clear cut imperialist, propaganda.
I could go on, but now I know you are motivated by a problem with the US I will stop...
You could go on telling me the same old rehashed lies and misrepresentations but that would just result in my digging up similar documents to the
pentagon papers and proving each and every one of your 'defenses' ( That the US had 'good' or 'progressive' intentions) of imperialism
inaccurate or misrepresentations and lies.
But do go ahead if you wish to have the misrepresentations you share with most of the rest of the world exposed as the blatant propaganda it is.
In fact i have some time over the next few days, to dig up and revisit some of that source material, so if you wish to gain some insight into the
recent modern history this would be a good opportunity.