KT Challenge@Shanksville

reply to post by trueforger


I agree, even on a straight down dive in to the ground, you would have an explosion on impact, which would have blown huge parts of the plane hundreds of feet in all directions. We would have seen seats, luggage, food trays, interior wall panels, kitchen cabinets doors, bodies, and bodies parts, there would be clothing scattered everywhere, there would have been big chunks of the rear fuselage. There is no way that an airplane is going to dig itself a hole, and then cover its self up. LOL Where is the logic in that. camronfox, can not explain any of it, regardless how he tries to justify it.
People who showed up at the crash scene before the rescue workers did, said there was “nothing” to see.




[edit on 30-3-2009 by impressme]

[edit on 30-3-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme


Camronfox, where is the plane?

I have stated several times. It is with it's owners. United Airlines.

Originally posted by trueforger
Judging from those other plane crash photos,

I suggest you look into those crashed. As I noted above, those crashed were either at much lower speeds, or belly landings. For the 12th time.... look into crash 1771. This gives you an idea of what a high speed crash looks like.

Originally posted by impressme


I agree, ...... LOL Where is the logic in that.

There is no logic in what your saying. Not one sigle crash scene investigator from the planet has come out to agree with you or any other truther.

camronfox, can not explain any of it, regardless how he tries to justify it.
People who showed up at the crash scene before the rescue workers did, said there was “nothing” to see.

I explained ALL of it.

You can't seem to grasp what kinetic energy is. You have not watched the video of flight 1771. You have not listened to ALL the experts.

reply to post by CameronFox

I have stated several times. It is with it's owners. United Airlines.

All hear say no proof.

reply to post by impressme


Would you like the contact information to UA? U2U and I will give you the contact information. Then you will get it FIRST HAND.

Well? Will you call them?

reply to post by CameronFox

I agree, ...... LOL Where is the logic in that.

There is no logic in what your saying. Not one sigle crash scene investigator from the planet has come out to agree with you or any other truther.

LOL There was never any crash scene investigators at Shanksville PA, much less any investigation or at any of the other crash scene on 911. Therefore, you will not get one-crash scene investigators to ever agree with your fallacy.

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage
Contained within a March 14, 2008 "DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR ENLARGEMENT OF TIME TO RESPOND TO AMENDED COMPLAINT" with the Nevada District U.S. Court, concerning a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by Mr. Aidan Monaghan (Case #: 2:07-cv-01614-RCJ-GWF) to order the production of Federal Bureau of Investigation records concerning the 4 aircraft involved in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Assistant U.S. Attorney Patrick A. Rose has indicated on behalf of the FBI, that records indicating the collection and positive identification of recovered wreckage created by these federally registered aircraft, do not exist.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

I explained ALL of it.

Your version that you want to see. Lol

You can't seem to grasp what kinetic energy is. You have not watched the video of flight 1771. You have not listened to ALL the experts.

LOL what experts? The government!




[edit on 30-3-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by CameronFox

Would you like the contact information to UA? U2U and I will give you the contact information. Then you will get it FIRST HAND.

Well? Will you call them?

Why haven’t you call them ?

posted by SPreston
Dang. Another alleged 9-11 aircraft piece of evidence with only one known photo taken of it. This 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY just gets crazier and crazier. They expect us to believe that alleged 6 ton RB-211 turbofan engine only buried about a foot underground in soft soil at 563 mph?

posted by CameronFox
2- Then tell me, how you know this piece of an engine was taken from "about a foot underground".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/789ad1c93c85.jpg[/atsimg]

Original Moussaoui Trial exhibit

Well gee willikers CF, if you just look at the official photo. That rusty old engine gives the appearance or has been staged to look like it is still partially buried just where they found it. Those guys are standing at ground level and there is about a foot of soil above the alleged engine.

Do you think they dug it up from way deeper and then partially buried it again? Why would they need to do that CF? Have you forgotten that the grass around that teensey hole was unburned and not even singed? CF where do you think all that alleged jet fuel went? That soil sure doesn't look like it is saturated with jet fuel does it? And that dry grass certainly did not see any jet fuel did it CF?

Do you wish, using 20/20 hindsight, that the FBI agents had rented a flame thrower and cleaned up the crime scene?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/934670c05843.jpg[/atsimg]

Larger photo

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c14a126edd60.jpg[/atsimg]

Larger official photo

Methinks that Killtown is right and there is no sign of a jet airplane at the hole in the ground in Pennsylvania. Methinks that the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY is sinking deeper and deeper into Bush's quagmire.

Originally posted by impressme
LOL There was never any crash scene investigators at Shanksville PA, much less any investigation or at any of the other crash scene on 911. Therefore, you will not get one-crash scene investigators to ever agree with your fallacy.

on September 11th, the following departments were dispatched to the scene:

• 8 Police Departments
• 7 EMS Services
• 8 Fire Departments
• 10 Emergency Management Agencies
• NTSB
• ATF
• FBI
• CISM
• Red Cross
• United Airlines

Also on hand were officials from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency, the Federal Aviation Administration and United Airlines. A team from the National Transportation Safety Board was en route.

www.post-gazette.com...

Here is some contact info... will you contact them?

Shanksville Volunteer Fire Co,
Shanksville, PA 15560. Terry Schaffer,Chief;

Rick King, Ass't Chief Somerset County Emergency Services 100 East Union Street, Somerset, PA 15501

Westmoreland County Dept. of Emergency Management 12 Court House Square Greensburg, PA 15601

Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency Harrisburg, PA 17101


Here is a PowerPoint presentation by Rick Lohr, Director of the Somerset County Emergency Management Agency:

Power Point

reply to post by SPreston


You have a list with contact information. Will you contact any of them Spreston... or are they all in on it too?

reply to post by CameronFox

I am not going to waste my time calling anyone, furthmore those people are under gag orders and are not to discuss anything about 911. Those other agency that showed up at the crash scenes are mostly where government officials.

• 8 Police Departments under gag orders
• 7 EMS Services under gag orders
• 8 Fire Departments under gag orders
• 10 Emergency Management Agencies under gag orders
• NTSB under gag orders
• ATF under gag orders
• FBI proven lairs
• CISM under gag orders
• Red Cross under gag orders
• United Airlines under gag orders and proven lairs and was handing out hush money to victims of 911.





[edit on 30-3-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
I am not going to waste my time calling anyone, furthmore[sic] those people are under gag orders and are not to discuss anything about 911. Those other agency that showed up at the crash scenes are mostly where[sic] government officials.

What are you afraid of?

Care to back up these "gag orders" with proof?

pictures pictures pictures the issue is not he said she said.

These guys are supposed to be our employees,probably sworn to protect the Constitution.They absorbed a bunch of money,where are our pictures?

Listen here,if that place is NOT the actual Crash site,someone set of a bomb and a fire in the woods.That makes it premeditated if it's murder.And a conspiracy.So I understand your not wanting to accept that the more likely actual occurance was all that and more.An open mind means one is able to admit being part wrong even when you're 98% right,and you know it yet you will listen and admit your inherent fallibility.When a stance is so adamant that there is no room for error...ever...at all...good luck with that.You'll need it.Remember that oath?You will.

. There is no way that an airplane is going to dig itself a hole, and then cover its self up. LOL Where is the logic in that. camronfox, can not explain any of it, regardless how he tries to justify it.

CameronFox, is that what you think happened to Flight 93?

Originally posted by SPreston
However allegedly there was this rusty old thing taken out of the hole. Methinks maybe that bucket arrived at the hole with that rusty old boneyard piece already sitting in it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/789ad1c93c85.jpg[/atsimg]

Original Moussaoui Trial exhibit

Dang. Another alleged 9-11 aircraft piece of evidence with only one known photo taken of it. This 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY just gets crazier and crazier. They expect us to believe that alleged 6 ton RB-211 turbofan engine only buried about a foot underground in soft soil at 563 mph?

Good eye on that. That engine was clearly planted by the bucket. Absurd to believe that the fuselage supposed to have buried further down than its engine.

reply to post by CameronFox

What are you afraid of?

Care to back up these "gag orders" with proof?

Here is your proof! Enjoy your reading.

we must work to get the gag order removed from FBI whistleblower, Sibel Edmonds. Her interview on 60 Minutes will be re-aired soon, possibly this Sunday. This gag order is actually a threat to national security because her knowledge can assist authorities in thwarting potential future attacks. This gag order is in place to protect people within this administration who would be damaged goods if the truth gets out. They are being protected at our expense, folks.

www.serendipity.li...

FDNY firefighters still remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA personnel are also under a similar 9-11 gag order.

The government has failed to produce significant wreckage from any of the four alleged airliners that fateful day,� said Reynolds. �The familiar photo of the Flight 93 crash site in Pennsylvania shows no fuselage, engine or anything recognizable as a plane, just a smoking hole in the ground. Photographers reportedly were not allowed near the hole. Neither the FBI nor the National Transportation Safety Board have investigated or produced any report on the alleged airliner crashes.

www.americanfreepress.net...

quote]Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Wrong. There have been no gag orders issued by any judges to the any of the first responders of 911

By any judges? You're right. Gag orders were issued by agencies such as the FBI.

And we know the FBI's been placing gag orders in the name of "national security," as a recent court case declared these actions of the FBI unconstitutional. How lovely.

FDNY fire fighters remain under a gag order (Rodriguezvs-1.Bush.pdf, p. 10) to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA personnel are also under a 9/11 gag order.

Source.

And if you want to know what the referenced pdf says on page 10:

b. FDNY employees were and continue to be under a “gag order” imposed by senior FDNY officials on instructions of ex-CIA director James Woolsey and others, which forbids them to talk about (among other things) multiple explosions at the WTC on 9-11;

That's from William Rodriguez's case against government officials over 9/11.

Then there's this article, which just goes to back up Mr. Rodriguez:

“It’s amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11.

Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story.

Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC “open grave site” on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: “I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes.”

Source.

And then there's Sibel Edmonds, who translated intelligence for the FBI, also had a gag order placed on her directly by Ashcroft when she started telling people what she had read prior to 9/11. There's a good example of why people aren't coming forward. I don't even really feel I need to source anything here as a quick Google search will turn of plenty of sources, including the actual gag orders placed upon her. This is why people aren't coming forward, Howard, as if you could just walk up to a CNN or Fox reporter and tell them these things anyway, or do you still think that the media is all grass-roots and independent of the feds?

[edit on 8-11-2005 by bsbray11]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Recordings of FAA flight controllers on 9/11 were confiscated and destroyed and the flight controllers were issued gag orders.

www.libertyforlife.com...

Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.

www.americanfreepress.net...

[Lieutenant Fireman and former Auxiliary Police Officer, Paul Isaac Jr.] explained to me that, “many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they’re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ‘higher-ups’ forbid discussion of this fact.” Paul further elaborated that former CIA director Robert Woolsey, as the Fire Department’s Anti-terrorism Consultant, is sending a gag order down the ranks. “There were definitely bombs in those buildings,” he told me.

whatreallyhappened.com...

Isaac also reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told me during our protest at Ground Zero on September 11, 2005 that
emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the World Trade Center towers.
Isaac told Szymanski in the above-mentioned article, “I heard some crazy things over my radio in those days, things I
can't repeat on the phone.”

Also, Isaac directly addressed the gag order placed on firemen and police officers in Szymanski's article:
“It's amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI
gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside
knowledge of 9/11.

www.galacticfriends.com...

reply to post by impressme


Like how many crash sites you been too?

A high speed impact smashes the plane and its contents into something
resembling "mettalic confetti" with few large pieces.

one of the larger pieces -m section of fuselage



Landing gear tire



Most wound up like this - small fragments in bin



The crash site was searched for several weeks afterwards and all debris
recovered for analysis

Members of Southwestern Pennsylvania Emergency Response Group scoured a wooded area near the crash scene for airplane fragments and human remains. They found some of both.

State Trooper Joseph Grove said the searchers, from 13 counties, worked shoulder to shoulder as far as a mile from where the plane slammed into the ground near Shanksville.

Originally posted by thedman
Like how many crash sites you been too?

A high speed impact smashes the plane and its contents into something
resembling "mettalic confetti" with few large pieces.

I don't think the point of the challenge is to argue that Flight 93 should not have been reduced to such small pieces, but rather where did most of the debris from Flight 93 go regardless of how big or small the debris should have been. Officials involved with this incident say most of debris was buried under the crater, about 80% according to that lady who I'm told works at the Flight 93 Shanksville memorial. The point of the challenge is to provide evidence beyond doubt that supports that claim.

Originally posted by impressme


Here is your proof! Enjoy your reading.

we must work to get the gag order removed from FBI whistleblower, Sibel Edmonds.

www.serendipity.li...

This alleged gag order on her, I am not aware of. But please read my post. I asked about "FIRST RESPONDERS DEALING WITH FLIGHT 93."

FDNY firefighters still remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA personnel are also under a similar 9-11 gag order.

www.americanfreepress.net...

Again, AFP does not source this at all. On the contrary, MANY firefighters speak about the collapses. There are magazines and books that are written. They were not in any way censored to hide any details. IF you can prove they were, have at it.

By any judges? You're right. Gag orders were issued by agencies such as the FBI.

And we know the FBI's been placing gag orders in the name of "national security," as a recent court case declared these actions of the FBI unconstitutional. How lovely.

Although the Patriot Act was implemented post 911, there is not one mention of ANY gag order placed on first responders from the crash of flight 93.

FDNY fire fighters remain under a gag order (Rodriguezvs-1.Bush.pdf, p. 10) to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA personnel are also under a 9/11 gag order.

You mean the lawsuit that Rodriquez withdrew?

Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story.

Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC “open grave site” on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: “I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes.”

THIS my friend, is hearsay.


Your entire post, although very detailed, did not offer any evidence. It was filled with opinion and hearsay. I am not saying that a gag order was not in place for certain government officials. There may as well have been. There is not one shred of evidence those that were investigating flight 93, first responders or others were "gagged".

So lets go over this again... here is your post:

• 8 Police Departments under gag orders
• 7 EMS Services under gag orders
• 8 Fire Departments under gag orders
• 10 Emergency Management Agencies under gag orders
• NTSB under gag orders
• ATF under gag orders
• FBI proven lairs
• CISM under gag orders
• Red Cross under gag orders
• United Airlines under gag orders and proven lairs and was handing out hush money to victims of 911.

What on this list have you provided evidence for?

[edit on 31-3-2009 by CameronFox]