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3 officers dead, suspect killed in Oakland, Calif.

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posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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4 police shot, suspect killed, after traffic stop


www.comcast.net

OAKLAND, Calif. — Four officers were in critical condition and a suspect dead on Saturday after gunfire at a traffic stop led to a massive manhunt that ended in a shootout, police said.
(visit the link for the full news article)

Updated the title as the story has been updated.

www.comcast.net...

Think its the exact same link though.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by whoshotJR]




posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Lets not make this into a thread about cops being bad or good. I wanted to point out this story because of the rise in tensions in areas lately and in Oakland after the last shooting its getting pretty heated.

Sadly I just see this tension building up over the country as times get harder for people.

www.comcast.net
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by whoshotJR
Lets not make this into a thread about cops being bad or good.


Glad you said that, otherwise we will have the haters on here saying the cops deserved it

With that said however, its probably a good thing they got this guy off the street, in one way or another. Lets hope the tension doesnt escalate even more



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by whoshotJR
 


Look you get back what you give out period. The stories I hear about "convicts" dieing in county jail at the hands of the jailers, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

Take your choice, die in jail at the hands of the ones in charge, or die in a shootout.

I think many are taking their chances in a shoot out. Unfortunate for all the good cops, but if they cover up the crimes of their "brothers" this is what it will lead to.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by TH3ON3
 


If you dont wanna go and do the time then dont do the crime. Its that simple.
Not all the cops are bad so lets not make the mistake of thinking they all are.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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Geraldo just said that all 4 officers were "dead," if I heard him right. Can't find too much right now. I'm interested in what kind of weapon was used and how the suspect was able to take out 2 swat officers. That's pretty unusual considering the amount of training these guys get.

And yes, the taking of human lives is a tragedy regardless of what you think about the cops. This sucks on all fronts. The anti-gun nuts are gonna have a field day with this.

www.latimes.com...





[edit on 21-3-2009 by JohnHolmes]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by TH3ON3
reply to post by whoshotJR
 


Look you get back what you give out period. The stories I hear about "convicts" dieing in county jail at the hands of the jailers, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.

Take your choice, die in jail at the hands of the ones in charge, or die in a shootout.

I think many are taking their chances in a shoot out. Unfortunate for all the good cops, but if they cover up the crimes of their "brothers" this is what it will lead to.


Ah yes, the ol' "lets blame the cops for everyone's irresponsible and criminal behavior, after all, those who choose a criminal lifestyle are certainly NOT at fault and do not deserve the consequences of their actions".




Good thing that thug is off the street. Bad thing that people doing a dangerous job that they chose have to suffer at the hands of criminals.



More info on this story:



The confrontation occurred about 12:15 a.m. when an officer, assigned to an operation targeting illegal car rallies known as "sideshows," stopped a vehicle seen running a stop sign on the 7800 block of MacArthur Boulevard near Parker Avenue, police said.

The officer summoned help as the vehicle sped away. The occupants abandoned the vehicle nearby and police surrounded an area bounded by 73rd, 82nd, Ney and Bancroft avenues before launching a search, said police spokesman Holmgren said.

Authorities found a suspect hiding in the crawl space beneath a house on the 2600 block of Parker; a confrontation ensued and ended with the man being shot, Jordan said. He would not elaborate. A second suspect, identified as Jesse William Mendez, 26, remains at large.

Mendez was among those in the car, but authorities would not say which of the occupants is suspected of shooting the officer.

Police were in the area along MacArthur Boulevard late Friday and early today in response to complaints about sideshows and motorists running stop signs, Holmgren said. Sideshows, illegal car rallies where participants perform donuts and other stunts with their vehicles, have long been a problem in Oakland and several people have been shot and even killed during them.


www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2007/05/19/BAGMIPU8QF16.DTL


And this article says 3 of the cops are DEAD:



www.contracostatimes.com...
Three police officers dead, a suspect killed in East Oakland gun battles
Harry Harris and Kamika Dunlap
Oakland Tribune
Posted: 03/21/2009 02:10:30 PM PDT
Updated: 03/21/2009 07:37:14 PM PDT



Bless their families


[edit on 3/21/2009 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Look, I don't know what kind of sheltered life you live, but I can tell you this...People are people. You have really, really bad civilian "people", and then you have really, really, bad "people" in law enforcement.

That is just the way it is. It's a fact of life that is a constant.

I'm just saying that if the people in charge are handing out vicious beatings/torture to the "bad" people while they are handcuffed/behind bars, or running down witnesses who have witnessed some officers of the law doing very unlawful things, then who is bad and who is good?

You have trash civilians, and then you have trash officers. The shiny badge and the "blue wall" just helps those who would profit/abuse the office, to get away with it for a very long time.

The most dangerous organization is any which swears to uphold the rule of law through duly sworn authority, yet is accountable only to their own organization.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by JohnHolmes
I'm interested in how the suspect was able to take out 2 swat officers. That's pretty unusual considering the amount of training these guys get.
[edit on 21-3-2009 by JohnHolmes]


This video answers your question and explains why it can and does happen.

www.youtube.com...

The whole series is worth watching lots of good info. It is 9 parts so kind of long, but Emerson is good instructor and a realdeal badass




[edit on 21-3-2009 by warpboost]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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This video answers your question and explains why it can and does happen.

www.youtube.com...

The whole series is worth watching lots of good info. It is9 parts so kind of long, but Ernie Emerson is real true badass


[edit on 21-3-2009 by warpboost]


Many thanks for the youtube link, my friend. Will definitely check out the whole series.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 11:10 PM
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Just a thought here, but with the whole, "don't do the crime if you can't do the time bit". I disagree.

Every day we are seeing more an more people being dealt the short hand by the police. I have a very hard time thinking that the fellow in the Vancouver Airport was some dangerous creep who had to be taken off the streets. Then there is the 90 year old lady that was gunned down in her home and weed planted there to cover up the police mistake.

All I'm saying here is that without unbiased access to the information we really have no idea why this kind of thing is happening or why there was a shootout at all. Here on ATS we often hear about good cops, bad cops, fudged police reports and the brotherly cover up.

Why is it that any suspect shot, probably deserved it, when ANY one of us could be considered a suspect just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time? The entire system is based on the concept that ANY person can be accused at any time with the burden of proof often being on the accused. Your word against the police's isn't much of a defense. The truth is often what can be written up, without any un-erasable video we are in a position where anyone can become a suspect, or a victim.

No, not all cops are bad, not all cops are good. If a good cop covers for a bad cop, then he is no better than the bad cop. It's not about, "one day needing that cop to cover his back". I mean would you want your back to be covered by someone you KNOW to be bent?

In this case the guy was probably expecting to have to shoot it out if things went bad. Most people wouldn't be able to get off enough rounds to injure 4 cops. But how are we ever expected to really know? There is another thread where the cops allegedly erased the video footage from a witnesses phone after pumping 4 bullets into the suspect. At what point do we as a population say enough is enough? The difference between these 4 officers being shot during a traffic stop and having to shoot the suspect, and these 4 officers robbing someone with a gun during a traffic stop is entirely based on the survivors word. Seems to me an unbiased 3rd party would really come in handy right about now.

Thanks for reading.
..Ex



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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Remember the Bart Officer???? I am telling you there is too much stress on all sides.

If you were a cop and made traffic stop in Oakland tomorrow how are you going to approach your job? Believe it or not there are criminals out there that HATE cops. Too many guns and nobody is gonna take any sh*t from nobody.

It is out of control. I remember the story of a teenage girl working in an ice cream store that was robbed. The robber took the money which she gave up readily and then he proceeded to shoot her in the face killing her. He did not want any witnesses. Probably a 3 strikes con.

These are some of the people the police must face day to day.

Compare that to an innocent man being humiliated by being pulled over and asked to lie down of the ground...



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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there might be a few bad cops, but theres no good criminals. end of story



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Swatman
 


Excellent post.

Some don't see it like that for some reason.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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Bah I guess I should have known that people couldn't have a discussion about the current happenings there without getting into if cops are good or bad.

It's a sad time that we are going through and I fear that this will just keep escalating and it won't matter soon who is right or wrong because the bloodshed all looks the same in the end.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by YeahSureIWILL
Lets not make this into a thread about cops being bad or good.

Lets not YOU tell US what to say.
How dare you tell people what to say.
Just who do you think you are?


My point was to not have another thread that bashes our police force or gets members flaming each other over their view on the topic. You can do a search and find enough of those.

I'm sure your just a forum troll anyway and will probably not post again.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:06 AM
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I wasn't really trying to go into the bad cop/good cop routine. I was trying to express that every person the cops pull over isn't a criminal. Sure we say if you can't do the time etc, but how many people realize that the "criminal" could just as easily be you or me. The difference isn't that we didn't commit a crime, it's that we aren't currently being accused of committing a crime.

The police aren't there to determine guilt, or innocence. They do not have the power to convict or judge the person, only to state the facts and allow the system to determine guilt or innocence. Sure there are real scumbags out there, just as there are very sincere good people. All too often we automatically assume that the person is a criminal only because they are accused. Ever willfully speed? Then you are indeed a criminal.

If the police are not able to handle each case as though the person may actually be innocent, regardless of their own personal feelings then they should not be the police. True they are still human, but that doesn't change the perspective. Each person has the rights afforded to them by their governmental structure. No person may intrude upon those rights without due process.

Now in the OP's post, a person was pulled over for a traffic stop by 4 police officers? A gun fight ensues and the suspect dies, 4 police are injured or worse. What was this persons crime? I mean what was the crime before the gun fight? Speeding? DWI? we simply don't know. maybe just a broken taillight. The point is something caused the situation to escalate. Was it the testosterone of the 4 police? Was the suspect on drugs? We will probably never know the truth as the suspect is dead. So we can surmise that anything we hear will be in the best possible light for the police.

Yup, no cover up here. Nothing to see, keep moving. Given the extremely high tensions within society these days, I just don't believe some guy, getting stopped by 4 officers is going to wig out and start shooting unprovoked. Then again, maybe he would. Without a 3rd party unbiased view, we will never really know.

Thanks for reading
..Ex



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Mar, 22 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by v3_exceed
 


Sorry my post wasn't directed at you. I get the point you are trying to make and was actually thinking along the same lines the other day after seeing the play wicked with my wife. It's essentially the wizard of OZ from another view, kinda makes you think how fast you could be turned into a bad guy and nobody would be the wiser that got involved after the fact.



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