Originally posted by SGTChas
Okay, I'm no expert on planes, however I do know that jet fuel that flash burns at 1300*+ cannot even weaken steel thet does not begin to melt until held at 2800*+ for 8 hours. I've used thermite det cord to cut steel beams when the building was still standing after being gutted by fires caused by HEP rounds. Building fires, JP4, JP54, and JPA1 do not melt steel structural beams. Been there, done that and got the tee shirt.


[edit on 4/10/2009 by SGTChas]

Actually steel will weaken quite a bit at those temperatures, in degrees F. Other people on the site have used thermite, det cord, and other energetic materials and can also say "Been there, done that and got the tee shirt" in several exciting locales around the world.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Except It doesn't take much more than common sense to see the OBVIOUS FAKERY thats pointed out and going on.


Yeah, except that the people with the REAL common sense, you know, the entire 9/11 truth movement and the rest of the whole world, don't agree or subscribe to the NPT disinfo.

except saying the ENTIRE truth movement and rest of the world doesn't agree or subscribe to NPT, is itself DISINFO.

nice try though pal... too bad you'd never be able to back that lie up.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Only the few NPT cult followers.
[edit on 10-4-2009 by _BoneZ_]

I recall when the truth movement BEGAN, many also made the same ignorant and laughable CLAIM.

NPT is in its infancy. And when people actually do an indepth investigation into the evidence and facts, they realize its not as nonsensical as you'd like people to believe.

The real Npt will only continue to gain strength as more and more see the evidence and ignore those like you who try to pump in disinfo and derail intelligent discourse.

i know its hard for you to accept, but -resistance is futile-

I used to think the NPT was lunacy and didn't have time for it, I didn't understand it. Myself and many others just saw a plane fly into a building and you tell me it's not real? But after listening to the noise produced by the no planers, studying the theories, listening to the arguments and variety of opinions it soon becomes apparent they have a pretty good case for no planes on 9/11. Seriously, NPT is not trying to spread disinfo on purpose I think these people just genuinely want to get to the bottom of the story with the whole planes deal. And quite right that they should too!

I think if there was nothing to it, the subject would of been dropped ages ago but I don't see any signs of that yet and like the above poster mentioned I think this theory is gaining momentum as more people start to wake up to it.

Originally posted by matrixNIN11
except saying the ENTIRE truth movement and rest of the world doesn't agree or subscribe to NPT, is itself DISINFO. nice try though pal... too bad you'd never be able to back that lie up.

I've backed it up time and time again. You just choose to ignore facts. I don't see NPT being discussed anywhere else in the world except a very few forums that you're ALLOWED to discuss it on, like this forum.

You already know that not one single 9/11 truth organization supports NPT and most have banned the discussion of NPT on their forums.

Originally posted by matrixNIN11
when people actually do an indepth investigation into the evidence and facts, they realize its not as nonsensical as you'd like people to believe.

We know you like to ignore facts and evidence, so it's not shocking when you type things like this. Very smart people, including myself, Arabesque and several others have already done an in-depth investigation into everything NPT'ers claim. We've found it all to be totally baseless and false. NPT'ers also like to distort, lie, purposefully deceive and mislead their followers into believing falsities that cannot be proven.

If NPT was truthful and had one single piece of verifiable evidence, somebody in the 9/11 truth movement would support it. But because NPT has never been truthful and has ZERO verifiable evidence, NPT will never, ever be supported by real and professional 9/11 researchers.

Originally posted by matrixNIN11
NPT is in its infancy. And when people actually do an indepth investigation into the evidence and facts, they realize its not as nonsensical as you'd like people to believe.

I feel like the one piece of evidence required for an "in depth" investigation is still sorely missing. A clear, high-quality video, composed of clear, high-quality source videos.

Please sir... a link to such a video. If the No Plane Theory is so convincing, certainly such a video must exist.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Originally posted by matrixNIN11
except saying the ENTIRE truth movement and rest of the world doesn't agree or subscribe to NPT, is itself DISINFO. nice try though pal... too bad you'd never be able to back that lie up.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
I've backed it up time and time again.

and as i said: "too bad you'd never be able to back that lie up."

You think repeating that robotic line of bs enough times will eventually make it true? mmmmmmkay.

Your tactics are nothing less than a cheap attempt at mind-control and brain-washing... which sadly does sometimes work to a certain extent on the gullible and weak-minded.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
You just choose to ignore facts. I don't see NPT being discussed anywhere else in the world except a very few forums that you're ALLOWED to discuss it on, like this forum.

first of all as i said, even if that were true, all that it means is that an advanced concept such as NPT is relatively NEW to the discussion of 911 and takes far more investigation and critical thinking/analysis to grasp than other aspects of the 911 hoax. However those who have the ability to put personal biases and ego's aside to consider and do a FULL investigation on ALL the evidence, will agree NPT isn't the type of bs and nonsense you'd like people to believe.

Second of all, you like MOST have a RETARDED understanding of what the true and real NPT is even about, so its no wonder your mind is as closed as it is and unable to comprehend the IRREFUTABLE evidence and FACTS that PROVE the REAL NPT beyond a doubt.

and Third, the fact that you even admit MOST FORUMS and people in general (due to ignorance) resist and refuse to allow any real intelligent discourse about NPT, further proves my point about how NPT is still in its infancy and going thru SIMILAR BIRTH PANGS that the TRUTH MOVEMENT itself went through back during its beginnings... It took YEARS for most to comprehend the evidence and years for sites, facts etc to be created and embraced. SAME THINGS HAPPENING now with everything from NPT to Judy Wood and other un-popular, alternative and less known or accepted theories and evidence.

But the true danger in the type of IGNORANCE you're pushing and perpetuating is borderline NAZIesque.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
You already know that not one single 9/11 truth organization supports NPT and most have banned the discussion of NPT on their forums.

whether thats completely true or not is IRRELEVANT for the reasons I already explained above.

so WHO CARES?

It doesn't negate or make NPT any less credible

Sorry.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
Originally posted by matrixNIN11
when people actually do an indepth investigation into the evidence and facts, they realize its not as nonsensical as you'd like people to believe."

We know you like to ignore facts and evidence,

what facts and evidence?

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
so it's not shocking when you type things like this. Very smart people, including myself, Arabesque

oh you mean that dude who hosts the debunked and defunked lawson vid?

LOL

don't flatter yourselves. Ego's as big as yours have made it that much easier to take down and are prone to failure by design.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
and several others have already done an in-depth investigation into everything NPT'ers claim. We've found it all to be totally baseless and false.

except the FACTS and EVIDENCE proves otherwise. oh well.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
NPT'ers also like to distort, lie, purposefully deceive and mislead their followers into believing falsities that cannot be proven.

except the FACTS and EVIDENCE proves otherwise.

but talking about the Pot calling the kettle black.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
If NPT was truthful and had one single piece of verifiable evidence, somebody in the 9/11 truth movement would support it. But because NPT has never been truthful and has ZERO verifiable evidence, NPT will never, ever be supported by real and professional 9/11 researchers.

exactly what MOST then and even TODAY continue to say about the movement in general.

So who cares?

Aside from the fact most might not support npt because they know nothing about it or are in denial and ignorant of the evidence, that most don't accept or support npt, doesn't disprove the FACTS AND EVIDENCE that validates it.

Its that simple. You've disproven NOTHING other than your incredible ignorance, denial and close mind.

But when all is said and done, no one really cares about your OPINION or alleged evidence you CLAIM to have that disproves npt when anyone with a brain can see there's TONZ of counter-evidence against what you claim.

Npt is HERE TO STAY and will continue to grow like it is and has as the evidence and facts spread and more people do real research on it. The more people like you try to suppress and argue the actual evidence, the more and faster NPT will grow.

Resistance is FUTILE



[edit on 16-4-2009 by matrixNIN11]

Originally posted by matrixNIN11
But let me repeat it again for you... the ONLY way your argument is true, is if you ignore the actual evidence.

Why have you not yet provided to the readers of this thread, that actual evidence to which you keep referring?

If you're expecting anyone to consider your claims, then the onus is upon YOU to provide anyone who asks, the best evidence you have available.

So I ask again, a request which has been repeatedly ignored, for you to produce a high-quality video composed of segments of high-quality source material, that substantiates your claims.

Until you can comply with such a simple request, you are considered a con-artist sir.

Originally posted by mister.old.school Why have you not yet provided to the readers of this thread, that actual evidence to which you keep referring?

for starters, among the type of evidence proving inside job or nrpt, video evidence IS EVIDENCE.

if you claim the videos used in analysis are not from the original footage, then not only is that your problem, but the burden of proof is on you to proof its NOT, SIR.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
If you're expecting anyone to consider your claims, then the onus is upon YOU to provide anyone who asks, the best evidence you have available.

which has already been done by myself and hundreds if not thousands of others which includes what I just previously posted.

If its false and not evidence, the burden is on you to show exactly how and where its NOT, SIR.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
So I ask again, a request which has been repeatedly ignored, for you to produce a high-quality video composed of segments of high-quality source material, that substantiates your claims.

see above, SIR.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
Until you can comply with such a simple request, you are considered a con-artist sir.

as if i care or am bothered by your worthless OPINION.

once again, for starters, the visual evidence such as in the 2nd video for example, is taken directly from footage from the naudet bros video. If you want to claim its not real, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

good luck with that one!



[edit on 18-4-2009 by matrixNIN11]

Originally posted by matrixNIN11
I'm saying the millions of people either don't know about NPT, don't understand it due to a lack of research

The entire 9/11 truth movement does know and has known about NPT for quite some time, so that point is moot. Many intelligent people, including myself, have spent countless hours researching and going over the NPT "theories', so that point is moot also.

All you have left is your opinionated, sad little excuse that the 9/11 truth movement won't accept NPT is because of denial. Instead of making up excuses due to your lack of real research, why don't you contact some of the heads of the 9/11 truth organizations and ask why they won't accept NPT or why NPT is banned from being discussed and see what they say. Then you can tell everyone yourself the same thing I've been saying, you have no physical, tangible, verifiable evidence.

All you have is your OPINION of what's going on in those videos. Your opinion is not fact and it is not evidence. You have a real problem separating fact from opinion. You have tons of opinions, but not a single factual piece of evidence, period.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
Until you can comply with such a simple request, you are considered a con-artist sir.

I've been saying that about the NPT disinfo artists for a couple years now. You won't get any evidence out of him. All he can do is attack, call names, use profanity, and make long post after long post of blah blah blah.

I can say with 110% certainty, we will never see any real evidence from the NPT disinfo cult.

Originally posted by matrixNIN11
if you claim the videos used in analysis are not from the original footage, then not only is that your problem,

See below...

once again, for starters, the visual evidence such as in the 2nd video for example, is taken directly from footage from the naudet bros video. If you want to claim its not real, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

No, it is not taken "directly" from the Naudet video. You are either lying about the provenance of the source material, or do not know the provenance. The close ups they show are clearly heavily blurred (to hide the pixelization) zoom-ins of a compressed digital video source. Anyone with experience in the attributes of film, uncompressed digital video, and compressed digital video will spot it immediately. I strongly urge you to show this video to any unbiased expert who works with the three formats, I guarantee you they will corroborate my observations.

Since the video you linked is:
1 -- using altered source material
2 -- is a heavily compressed digital video
...it cannot be considered definitive evidence.


If this "No Plane" theory is so important to you and the proponents of the theory, why aren't you taking the effort to use the highest-quality source footage and then present your findings in the highest quality end-format?

That's all I ask. If you show me your claims with a clear video, I will believe you.

once again, for starters, the visual evidence such as in the 2nd video for example, is taken directly from footage from the naudet bros video.

As a follow-up to this conversation, I've ordered an HD DVD that contains the Naudet footage in high-resolution. I will digitize that segment, uncompressed, and we'll see how it compares with the version shown in the YouTube video you provided as evidence.

Fair enough?