Psi-Wheel Dubunked. You are not supernatural.

I found this on metacafe.
People are being told everyone has PSI energy and the starting point to learn it is to move a PSI Wheel. These people then follow instructions to build a folded paper wheel that is balanced on a pin head. They are told to then place their hands around the wheel and use their mind to move it. Then they are told to cover it with a glass and move it. In reality they are just demonstrating natural forces such as heat convection, static electricity, vibration etc.

Watch this video to see how its really done.

www.metacafe.com...



[edit on 21-3-2009 by robwerden]

Nice "debunk". Too bad it does not explain keeping your hands away and staying several feet away from the psi-wheel. Only beginners use their hands.

Id like to see a video of that.
Seems to me there would have to be an logical reason for it if that was true. Show me that and I'll see if I can debunk it. Sound fair?

reply to post by robwerden


Here's a good one.

This one is interesting as well.

That video you provided proves nothing to your point sadly and comes off looking somewhat amateurish in its execution. The person used a small, light piece of paper cut to catch as much natural air current as possible, and is further placed upon a needle-point swivel. What you have there is a decent video describing how a propeller works. One last point, regarding the part where he set the piece on top of his heating fixture? How are we to believe there is not air going through the vents, providing the paper with its propulsion?

Edit: Fixed grammar mistake.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Tgautier13]

Originally posted by Tgautier13
One last point, regarding the part where he set the piece on top of his heating fixture? How are we to believe there is not air going through the vents, providing the paper with its propulsion?

So you’ll believe without question that someone can remove a bottle cap with their mind but you will dispute a repeatable demonstration of a known scientific phenomenon?

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Mike_A]

reply to post by Mike_A


The 'scientific phenomena' case holds no weight in this conversation. Heated air naturally rises and when you place a small piece of paper over the air that is easily susceptible to spinning in an air current... put two and two together.

I have provided two (2) videos which purportedly show telekinesis. In the first one, the person is unscrewing a bottle cap the entire way off. A little bit different than cutting a thin piece of paper, placing it on a swivel and putting it above a heated air current. The second one is much more interesting. From the description:

A clip displaying the ability to influence the weight of a Dice in a bottle of water and causes it to float.

Addition control conditions:
1. The dice is put in a bottle with cap on to prove segregation from external environment.
2. Magnetic have been use to prove that the dice is not gimmick and will not be influence by magnetic field.
3. Bottom of the table, hands and legs are shown clearly to be free of any use of any aiding tools.
4. This video is not edited. Viewer can seek a video expert to prove this.

Its amazing what you can do with fishing line and a crappy web cam. To bad there are so many gullible people in the world. Telekinesis is not real. Its like santa claus or the easter bunny, only children believe in them.

Originally posted by Tgautier13
Heated air naturally rises and when you place a small piece of paper over the air that is easily susceptible to spinning in an air current... put two and two together.

Which is exactly the point the OP is making. Putting the wheel on the heater vividly demonstrated how convection can influence such an object; thus also demonstrating one of the reasons a paper wheel will spin when you put your warm hands near it.

You seem to be disputing this by suggesting that there is a separate source of airflow causing the wheel to spin. Yet at the same time you have no problem believing a youtube video of a person who claims to be removing a bottle top with his mind. It just seems very contradictory.

Why are you so willing to question a demonstration of a verifiable phenomenon but you don’t question an anonymous video of a person who claims scientifically unproven and unverifiable telekinetic abilities. How do you know it’s not camera trickery, wires, or some other magicians trick?

...and the point I'm trying to make is that by using the heat convection experiment with the given variables in the video and trying to use said experiment to debunk a phenomena like telekinesis is just faulty reasoning.

How would the piece of paper not spin, when cut into a propeller shape, placed upon a fine point swivel, then put over a heated air current? How am I supposed to accept this elementary school science project as the definitive evidence which denies the entire history of telekinesis?

I'm not asking anyone to believe. I'm just asking for a better attempt at debunking telekinesis, if you feel the need to validate its non-existence or whatnot.

reply to post by Tgautier13


We have already debunked telekenisis. Its called magic..... you know the magicians that do shows in las vegas....

Its a show... a fake.... not real.... scam.... illusion...

or maybe you should call and ask miss cleo?

The person Tgautier13 mentioned is bending spoons and stuff... Look at all of his videos on YouTube. Try and debunk those.
Peace.

reply to post by Wertdagf


In the supernatural sense, you're right. Telekinesis doesn't exist. However, it won't be too long before these "supernatural" phenomena are within our grasp using natural means. I.E. computerization and cyberization. Telekinesis would likely be one of the more difficult ones to pull off - since it would require an output from the brain/bci strong enough to accomplish it's intended function. The first applications will likely be simple, such as changing channels on your TV, opening applications on your PC, or other such tasks which rely on small amounts of information transference.

Insofar as the Psi-Wheel, it supposedly relies on supernatural phenomena to operate. Magic, basically. In this regard, I see nothing about the Psi-Wheel that makes it in any way more impressive than feats accomplished by street performers like David Blane.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Lasheic]

Originally posted by Tgautier13
reply to post by robwerden

 

Here's a good one.

This one is interesting as well.


Edit: Fixed grammar mistake.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Tgautier13]

I am a magician and I can do the bottle cap trick and the levitating object in a closed bottle with magicians thread.

Next video that needs debunking please

[edit on 21-3-2009 by robwerden]

Originally posted by impaired
The person Tgautier13 mentioned is bending spoons and stuff... Look at all of his videos on YouTube. Try and debunk those.
Peace.

Bending spoons is also a magic trick.


Here everyone try this. Find a video that you think is paranormal or what ever, then do a search for the same video and add the words magic trick to the search.

I have been waiting for this. The Psi-Wheel has started to gain notoriety one the net thus a "debunking atttempt" had to be coming soon. The video was a joke. The other psi-wheel videos are under glass where there is no static electricity, heat convection, etc. This was half comedic and half sad. Someone wasted their time making this.

The only way to know if the psi-wheel is true or not is for yourself to actually try it. You might not be able to do it on the first or second try so don't immeidtately dismiss it.

I really want to see someone "debunk" the spoon bending video. I can't come up with the refute to that one.

here is book that will teach you to bend spoons

magicshop.magictricks.com...





Next please

[edit on 21-3-2009 by robwerden]

What a fun thread! It's debunk the debunkers time

Seriously, you expect us to believe some youtube video? We want evidence, hard evidence!

More seriously, providing one explanation does not rule out other causes, logically speaking. So you haven't shown that a psi wheel can't be moved by telekinesis, you just have shown that it can be moved by convection or air currents.

Tgautier13,

I’m not really debating the merits of the argument put forward in the OP just your odd willingness to accept a youtube video at face value when it is supposedly demonstrating a supernatural ability while at the same time trying to poke holes in a very sound demonstration of a scientific principle. Surely you can see the contradiction.

With regard to the OP’s argument while it can’t be said to prove that telekinetic ability isn’t used it does demonstrate a far more likely reason for the movement of any given “psi wheel”. It puts the believer in a position whereby they must say why they jump to the conclusion of telekinesis over convection or any of the other verifiable explanations given.

By the way, the OP didn’t claim to debunk telekinesis just this so called psi wheel.



Impaired,

Originally posted by impaired
The person Tgautier13 mentioned is bending spoons and stuff... Look at all of his videos on YouTube. Try and debunk those.
Peace.

It’s a Youtube video! When did that site become the great bastion of scientific principle?

How do you know he isn’t used wires or, fancy camera work or anything? It’s insane to watch these things and just accept them.

Originally posted by Mike_A

With regard to the OP’s argument while it can’t be said to prove that telekinetic ability isn’t used it does demonstrate a far more likely reason for the movement of any given “psi wheel”.

It demonstrates another possible reason; whether or not that reason is more likely is a judgment call.

It puts the believer in a position whereby they must say why they jump to the conclusion of telekinesis over convection or any of the other verifiable explanations given.

Assuming that their setup is like the one in the video, it can be asked why they find one explanation more likely than another. Yes.

It's really not a matter of "must" though, unless they are specifically setting out to convert non-believers.

By the way, the OP didn’t claim to debunk telekinesis just this so called psi wheel.

That's true. But he really didn't even do that. And I think it's amusing when people claim to have debunked a phenomenon absolutely (he did btw in his title leap to the conclusion "you are not supernatural" which surely does not follow logically from "psi-wheel debunked"), considering all the complaints about the "100% proof of UFO/ghost/LoA/chupacabra/whathaveyou"

How is this a "debunk?" It seems to prove that energy is a natural part of the universe if only we figured out how to use it more efficiently. Energy is always moving.