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Subject: No one can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009

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posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Mekanic
 


I think the bottom line is that it is not their right to pry into what law abiding citizens own or purchase. You can't use the presumption that maybe some law abiding citizens will use the guns they own for bad purposes because all citizens are innocent until proven guilty, that being said the coding situation would only affect law abiding citizens because people buying guns and ammo on the black market would be off the grid. It's clearly a move to identify those who own guns and what kind, how frequently those guns are used and in what amount the owners might be supplied. Its not the fact of being identified that is sketchy it's the implied intent of the information that is. What reason beyond accountability do you need to know in detail what I own as long as taxes are paid,no laws are committed, and permits are in order? You can already match a gun to a bullet through ballistics should you need to and all gun purchases are easily accessible information to law enforcement for investigation purposes....this goes beyond all that and it is the same as wire tapping random citizens. It IS MOST CERTAINLY a massive infringement on civil rights and supporters of it are the ones who, when we are keeping such attempts to penetrate our rights as citizens via the proverbial wall the constitution provides at bay, simply open the door and let those perpetrators come right in and ransack us. Be smart, the rights are there, no reason to change them or weaken them just because you dont own a gun, they are there to protect us and thats what they will do so long as we dont allow them to be tweaked and manipulated by those who may have alterior motives.




posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by network dude
 


I read 1984 years ago, what's you're point? What? - you think the government is going to turn big brother on you because of the increased cost of ammo?



All of your comments come from a skewed point of view from that of the typical American patriot.

Why should the government know how much you have of anything?

Private property is just that... private.

Your info says you are Australian. Please keep your uninformed, culturally dissonant comments out of a discussion about Liberty and Freedom from tyranny in the Republic of the United states of America.


[edit on 20-3-2009 by merkaba93]



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by Mekanic
 


So if they are already taking account then why make it a bigger deal. Like I said, this bill would allow them access to all sorts of information they do not need. It is likely that when you purchase your ammo and your weapon the vendor is by law obligated to maintain records but does not need to report everything directly. Perhaps just the registry of weapons is required and not ammo.My point is they dont need to know so why give them information that COULD give them an edge if they wanted to get rid of people who would have the means to put up a valiant and perhaps dangerously effective resistance to oppression?



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx
reply to post by Mekanic
 


So if they are already taking account then why make it a bigger deal. Like I said, this bill would allow them access to all sorts of information they do not need. It is likely that when you purchase your ammo and your weapon the vendor is by law obligated to maintain records but does not need to report everything directly. Perhaps just the registry of weapons is required and not ammo.My point is they dont need to know so why give them information that COULD give them an edge if they wanted to get rid of people who would have the means to put up a valiant and perhaps dangerously effective resistance to oppression?


There is more than that at issue and that is counterfeit bullets and a Government who says they can be trusted with the legitimate database, in the same voice they are telling us they don't trust us.


You know what, if I were a part of the Obama SS or the Hussein Youth squad,, I wouldn't trust someone like me either, as pissed off as us Bible thumping, Gun Toting white people in the State of Arizona are right now.

Anyone driving a car with an Obama bumper sticker on it is taking as big a risk as those the Obimbo's are saying drive around with Ron Pauls on their bumper



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


This bill was introduced in the Tennessee Legislature last year. It died a horrible and quick death.Thanks to many patriotic Congressman and Senators.

They will keep on trying to take away rights to bear arms.We must meet them head on and let our voices be heard LOUD and CLEAR. No more anti gun legislation!!!



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Yeah I love how the ONLY man who is openly stating ugly facts about the nation and its greedy politics is the man they completely blocked from any type of power. Ron Paul though as great a man as he is wouldnt last a minute as president. We have seen his caliber before. What would happen is that he would end up like Kennedy. The PTB dont like rebels stirring the pot and while I whole heartedly believe that man is the only one who is getting publicity that would do the right thing by the people I would not want him made into an example, I think he's got a good amount of influence and potential to imbue the Americans with yet!



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Quote from snopes.com “The bill requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacturer data of all ammunition sales. So they will know how much you buy and what calibers. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the ammunition is encoded.” End of Quote You must understand the bill isn’t legislation, as of yet! If that should happen I will give you more precise wording Washington State is quite conservative. I’m not sure how they will view it.

It may not have gotten much attention in 2008 but this is a new season a new time. Things are rapidly changing. This bill is a warning to those who want to hear. Obama will make his mark, regardless of how small it may seem at the time. It’s leading to bigger and better things in the grand scheme of it all. If Obama is opening his arms and having web cam chats with the Islamic Republic of Iran I think we should all prepare for all Hell to break loose! I understand and appreciate your search for more knowledge.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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First,
The OP has misrepresented the topic by claiming "NO ONE CAN SELL ANY AMMUNITION AFTER JUNE 30, 2009". This is of course NOT TRUE.

How can we expect to get accurate info in this thread when the OP himself is falsifying and misrepresenting the actual bill ????

Although I do agree that the government is getting a bit too involved with our 2nd amendment rights, the OP's fear mongering isn't helping the situation.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
First,
The OP has misrepresented the topic by claiming "NO ONE CAN SELL ANY AMMUNITION AFTER JUNE 30, 2009". This is of course NOT TRUE.

How can we expect to get accurate info in this thread when the OP himself is falsifying and misrepresenting the actual bill ????

Although I do agree that the government is getting a bit too involved with our 2nd amendment rights, the OP's fear mongering isn't helping the situation.


Your point I understand however I think you are over
exaggerating just a little yourself.It has been noted that he made a mistake in the title by a few members already, a moderator has not stepped in yet, but I am sure when he/she does it will be with no more or less than appropriate action. Until then lets just discuss the facts we know about the issue as it has developed since that is the topic of discussion to begin with



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx

Originally posted by jfj123
First,
The OP has misrepresented the topic by claiming "NO ONE CAN SELL ANY AMMUNITION AFTER JUNE 30, 2009". This is of course NOT TRUE.

How can we expect to get accurate info in this thread when the OP himself is falsifying and misrepresenting the actual bill ????

Although I do agree that the government is getting a bit too involved with our 2nd amendment rights, the OP's fear mongering isn't helping the situation.


Your point I understand however I think you are over
exaggerating just a little yourself.It has been noted that he made a mistake in the title by a few members already, a moderator has not stepped in yet, but I am sure when he/she does it will be with no more or less than appropriate action. Until then lets just discuss the facts we know about the issue as it has developed since that is the topic of discussion to begin with


Well to start, one of the sources the OP cited was SNOPES. The Snopes article has the bill listed as UNDETERMINED. So we've gone from UNDETERMINED to nobody can have bullets ???



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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I gotta say you have to admire their brilliance, no need to take away guns if they can't shoot anything out of them. I have to say this administration is great in using smoke and mirrors. Most people are worried Obama will take away their guns, while their not watching the other hand stealing their ammo. Maybe we've underestimated them...



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx

Originally posted by jfj123
First,
The OP has misrepresented the topic by claiming "NO ONE CAN SELL ANY AMMUNITION AFTER JUNE 30, 2009". This is of course NOT TRUE.

How can we expect to get accurate info in this thread when the OP himself is falsifying and misrepresenting the actual bill ????

Although I do agree that the government is getting a bit too involved with our 2nd amendment rights, the OP's fear mongering isn't helping the situation.


Your point I understand however I think you are over
exaggerating just a little yourself.It has been noted that he made a mistake in the title by a few members already, a moderator has not stepped in yet, but I am sure when he/she does it will be with no more or less than appropriate action. Until then lets just discuss the facts we know about the issue as it has developed since that is the topic of discussion to begin with


Well to start, one of the sources the OP cited was SNOPES. The Snopes article has the bill listed as UNDETERMINED. So we've gone from UNDETERMINED to nobody can have bullets ???


Well I wont go to anyones defense here....but like I said, wording was obviously not entirely in sync with the article the OP sites the info from....A mod will obviously deal with the inconsistencies as necessary whenever the inconsistencies are noticed by him/her, but again we all know that now so lets just deal with what we know and what has relevance in what the thread has evolved into as oppose to how it started yes?



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 07:39 PM
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It’s a new attack on the 2nd amendment in our Bill of rights.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."(dont you think ammo is part of this right)?


Ammunition Accountability Bill before Congress


Bullet Identification Technology: A modern crime fighting tool

Bullet identification technology, known as an ammunition coding technology, has been developed and will provide law enforcement with modern crime fighting tools. Ammunition coding technology assigns a unique code to every round of ammunition manufactured, and by recording sales records, law enforcement personnel will be able to easily trace the ammunition involved in a crime and have an avenue to pursue and solve even the most difficult cases.

The unique code is micro-laser engraved on factory-produced ammunition. This laser engraving is etched on both the projectile and the inside of the cartridge casing.

Each code will be common to a single box of cartridges and unique from all other ammunition sold. The unique ammunition codes will be tracked and records maintained to identify individual ammunition purchases. The ammunition coding technology will provide a method for law enforcement personnel to trace ammunition purchases and link bullets and cartridge cases found at crime scenes to the initial retail ammunition purchaser.

This system will not necessarily prove who pulled the trigger, but it will provide law enforcement with a valuable lead and a starting point to quickly begin their investigations.

The design of the ammunition coding technology laser engraving system will allow law enforcement personnel to identify the bullet code in cases where as little as 20% of the bullet base remains intact after recovery. Since bullets are designed to keep the base solid and in its original configuration, the likelihood of ammunition codes remaining legible after recovery is very high. Law enforcement testing has already shown a 99% success rate in identifying the ammunition code after bullet recovery.

A unique ammunition code will be assigned to each box of new ammunition. Most major ammunition manufacturers already use bar-coding for inventory control and management. Ammunition manufacturers will simply include the ammunition code in their current bar coding system. Ammunition retailers will scan the bar code on each box of bullets along with the purchaser's driver's license or state issued ID. The resulting electronic record would be transferred to a secure computer database that would confidentially maintain individual ammunition sales information.

A licensing fee for each bullet sold would also be required.

I am highly opposed to this set of regulated guidelines!


[edit on 20-3-2009 by wonderworld]

[edit on 20-3-2009 by wonderworld]



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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This is redicilous.

FIRST OFF, the proof you have is a snopes article that says UNDETERMINED. Even if it said TRUE I still wouldn't take a snopes article as factual.

SECONDLY, as previously said - Guns DON'T kill people, exactly, it's the bullets, which is why if they were coded it would be safer.
So if you guys feel so protected by your guns then why are so many gun-related deaths accidental?

Then somebody compared keeping track of somebody's ammo the same as keeping track of somebody buying a hot wheels car, which is one of the stupidest defenses I've read in this thread and I shouldn't even have to say why.


Somebody said that this wouldn't stop gun crime because the criminals could just use axes or knives, yes that's entirely true but you will have your gun and ammo for defense and you will be legally protected to use it if a criminal was to threaten you - even if it's coded. It really makes no difference to what you can do with your ammo unless you plan on shooting up a mall.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


Agreed, and simply because as long as a citizen is law abiding there is no reason to make him/her release information about their private property, simply because it is as one member posted previously, PRIVATE. Any infringement on our right to bear arms and that which accompanies said arms is infringement nonetheless and hence still unconstitutional however small a margin. You hear the saying all the time but you never think to apply it where it counts, "you give them an inch and they will take a mile" this is that inch and I believe the mile they will take will be unrecoverable.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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I think what needs to be understood is that regardless of whether or not this whole idea is true or just a mythical chain mail (which is what it looks like), that sooner or later there has to be some form of gun control in your country.
Considering that you are all attached so emotionally to your guns then it makes sense to instead control the ammunition.

We can't have complete freedom to guns and ammunition for the rest of our civilization.
Look at how many more gun deaths are happening, it will only keep rising. Look at how much distress is happening around the world, etc, it's all only going to get worse and surely guns aren't going to help.
Sooner or later there HAS TO BE some sort of regulation on this. It can't be ignored like a case of herpes or it will never go away and will only spread.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by Nventual
 


Guns even in accidentaly firing are the problem then and NOT the ammo. So I say again why would you want all that intricate detail on the bullet rather than redesign the gun to make it more difficult to incur accidental firing? like we have done so much with lighters? It is NOT stupid to be protective of 2nd amendment rights and I stand by the man who made the analogies about the hot wheels because he is right! Its our property and just like cell phones we have a right to privacy with them. If someone dies because of any bullet, chances are even now ballistics could trace it and registry of gun permits is easily accessible to law enforcement. They dont NEED this bill, they just want it, and I honestly mean it when I say I doubt its for what they say its for. I pay taxes, I dont break laws, if I want a gun, its my right, and with that I believe its my right to have my information out of the paws of those who would use it to invade my rights and my property on false pretenses.PERIOD!



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by Nventual
 

Guns are a tool, and they are used for protection, those who have the right to own a gun legally should be left alone, this in a way is harassment, you sir condone it because you dont believe the reasons they state are hollow, but what if your wrong and they are as hollow as a tin can? Then the last line of american defense, the MILITIA is stripped of its power to act. That is not something we can afford to allow to happen.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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This is the link to my state. I must admit, regardless if this is passed in to legislation it it very intimidating, to say the least. It's on the table!





posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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I'm just surprised that if something like this bill was passed that it would be so devastating for you. You still get to keep your gun and you still get to buy ammunition for it! You still get to carry a handgun with you, which I think is amazing - that alone would make me too afraid to go to the USA if everybody I saw had a gun hidden on them somewhere.

Here, you can get a handgun IF you have a gun club license and IF you regularly attend your gun club meetings. This is still not much of an issue because it just weeds out those who are too mentally ill to show up at regular gun club meetings, and therefore shouldn't be holding a gun anyway.



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