Subject: No one can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009

reply to post by andre18


I suppose those pipe bombs they had would be prevented with Govt. crap also.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


They're not searching your house, they're just keeping track of how much and what kind of ammo you're buying. It's not yours until they say it is, and since the info is put in before it's handed to you, it doesn't at all infringe upon the fourth amendment.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by sadisticwoman]

reply to post by sadisticwoman


Which is not any of their buisness.

I remember you spouting off how you want to be a Communist on some other threads.

If you want the Govt. to control you life so bad, I am sure we could put a fund together and stick a stamp on your back side to Russia.

This is land of the Free last time I checked.
We are born with rights that most of the world does not have.
If we let the Govt. have those rights, we will not be Free anymore.

I for one will fight to keep them.
In fact, there used to be advertising for a cigeratte called Tarrington, their catch line was, "I would rather fight than switch!"

I think that holds true today for our Govt.

reply to post by sadisticwoman


I guess you couldn't put it together.

"Our right to bear arms shall not be infringed" and the Fourth Amendment protecting our privacy.

Seeing how ammo is part of the arm because with out the ammo the gun is a very expensive and in some cases awesome looking club, ammo coding is infringing on our second amendment and also violating the 4th amendment by prying into our private lives.

reply to post by j2000


You literally have no clue what you're talking about. I don't want to be a communist- though of course someone like you would hardly be able to tell the difference between my personal politics and the communists, since you think anyone against you is a communist.

If you were going to fight for our freedom, you would have been doing so long ago. Because you know what? We have none. We are enslaved in jobs, we are constantly watched by our government, by other governments, by Google and Yahoo- and I don't see you doing any fighting aside from arguing with commies on ATS. What riots have you headed? What anti-gov groups have you started in your hometown? What representatives have you spoken to?

You are NOT FREE. You are NOT FREE.

www.spunk.org...

They have created a system in which most of the people who support their government by working hard to pay taxes and obeying laws, live a happy comfortable life, and those who don't havn't got enough say-so to change anything, for they are the poor, the lower class. Why listen to them as long as the systems works for you? So go on with your comfortable lives, but no matter what they tell you, you are not free! You are never free! Every minute that you don't speak out or do something to stop them, they gain more and more control over you. We need no justification for anarchy, for we only want our freedom, not the bull# that they feed you, but real freedom.

So don't lecture me on freedom- at least I am well aware of the fact that I am a prisoner.

Originally posted by sadisticwoman

You are NOT FREE. You are NOT FREE.

No. We're pretty far from free. In fact I'd say we're neo-feudal serfs forced to toil the land for the oligarchs until we die and our miserable slave lives end.

By being in favor of crap like this ammo coding you're not helping bring about freedom.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Well the next part of my argument was that we'd never be free until we got rid of all governments, and that until then all this arguing is ridiculous, but I figured I don't want to be called a commie anarchist from here on out.

And anyway that's not even the point, the point was that if he cared about freedom enough to fight for it, well, he better get outside and start fighting.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by sadisticwoman]

Click here for more information.

reply to post by kozmo


If you can't deal with someone disagreeing with you, you are against freedom.

If you are only free to do right, then you are not free.

Source

If you are to refuse me the right to be wrong, then you are against freedom.

There's nothing wrong with me- I can simply think for myself. If that makes me mentally ill, then so be it, I will take that term. Europe is no better than America in my eyes, though, so I won't be leaving, no.

Someone brought up a good point on the first page. Ammunition manufacturers aren't going to re-tool to make this coded ammo for the calibers which fall under the controlled list therefore, no ammo for these weapons will be available..at all. Its hard to buy legal ammo if no one makes it, isn't it?

Again, as with most gun laws, they are made to restrict people who are already law abiding citizens and do nothing to limit criminal activity because they are not designed for safety of the general public, they are designed to disarm the public so the government paranoids don't have to be afraid that they will be overthrown.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by wonderworld

 

This whole mess is silly, really. If guns were taken away, people will find a way to get them. If people cannot buy ammunition, people will figure out a way to make their own.

This won't stop people at all, as all this accomplishes is black market goods.

If they want to charge taxes on rounds, and people don't want to pay them, they will work around them.

How will they enforce people not having any privately owned ammunition?

Anyone with say, jewelry making skill will easily be able to make ammunition, if they have the materials at hand.

alot of people and businesses stand to make money on this...

1...police, courts, jails, will have to have more money for enforcement
2....legit ammo makers
3...illegal ammo makers- through black market
4... crime syndicates that will smuggle ammo over our borders

all these people now will have the power to make huge sums of money... this is a win-win for all of them.

a bit of a sensationalist title wouldn't you say?

Last I checked the coded Ammo Can STILL BE SOLD after June 30th.

Sorry you don't want your bullets 100% traceable... But if you're putting them into someone and they shouldn't be; well I guess you'll just have to be held accountable.

It's not about disarming Legitimately armed citizens. It's about making it harder for a criminal to pull a trigger and not be prosecuted for their crime.

I'm not a gun advocate, but I'm damn well NOT for disarming either...

That said I see absolutely nothing wrong with coded ammo.

I for one know If I ever have to kill someone I have a completely justifiable reason to do so; to the extent of being justifiable within a court of Law.

*readys his flame proof cap*

bring it!

Edit to Add: Also nice to add an

UNDETERMINED

Snopes Link as proof! Really makes your story that much more believable!




[edit on 3/20/2009 by coven]

Originally posted by coven

Sorry you don't want your bullets 100% traceable... But if you're putting them into someone and they shouldn't be; well I guess you'll just have to be held accountable.

Coding the ammo doesnt make them traceable. Certainly not by 100%.

It would only have the purpose of identifying who bought how much of what. The numbers on the ammunition would be obliterated once fired.

From the perspective of a proponent of this ridiculous bill a best case scenario would be catching an individual with ammunition on him, checking said ammunition and knowing from where he bought it or from whom he stole it.

Preventing absolutely no crime whatsoever.

Microstamping on the case itself is another issue with it's own law enforcement drawbacks such as sending police to a series of dead-ends.

The "best case" scenarios for either of these things is still after the fact criminal arrest. Neither is capable or even marketed as being able to stop or prevent any crime.

reply to post by coven


The criminals will start getting the ammo the same way they get their guns they will steal it.

So while law-abiding citizens have to go through more BS paper work, and have to deal with more unconstitutional laws. Criminals steal the ammo, more paperwork for the police and original owner before the ammo got stolen because now we will have to report stolen ammo.

Then criminals get real smart and start knocking off the ammo shipments. So what does ammo coding really accomplish?

Nothing, but more government bureaucracy.

reply to post by coven


Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.)

I’m not destroying squat! It isn’t only about my ammo being traced. Maybe they will decide to trace my money, anything they deem to be a security risk It’s about our Freedom and Constitutional rights.

They already trace our Matercard purchases, illegal wire tapping on our phones, too many to list. There will be more added to the bill. This is just for starters to slowly get Americans used to the idea. I do like your comment “I'm damn well NOT for disarming either” If I took that out of context I apologize. Glad you see both sides of the coin.

To the OP, stop spreading fear and panic. These bills have been introduced several times now and failed at each attempt. This is the state of affairs in CA:

SB997, the bill listed on the so-called "Ammunition Accountability" web site at www.ammunitionaccountability.org... and www.ammunitionaccountability....20SB...%20997.pdf. SB997 was "gutted and amended" into some other kind of bill (emergency medical services) before the end of the legislative session.

HERE IS THE INFORMATION REGARDING SB997 (from the so-called "Ammunition Accountability" web site):
ammunitionaccountability.org...

BILL NUMBER:
SB 997 AMENDED
BILL TEXT

AMENDED IN
SENATE APRIL 26, 2007
AMENDED IN
SENATE APRIL 9, 2007

INTRODUCED BY Senator Ridley-Thomas


FEBRUARY 23, 2007

An act to amend Sections 12001, 12021.3, 12073,
and 12078 of the Penal Code, relating to firearms.



LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST


SB 997, as amended, Ridley-Thomas. Firearms.
Existing law generally defines firearms for regulatory
purposes.
This bill would make technical, nonsubstantive changes to
those
provisions.
Existing law generally regulates the transfer of firearms
and
provides exceptions to various reporting requirements for certain law
enforcement entities and licensed firearms dealers.
This bill would provide additional exceptions to a
procedure for the return of a firearm in the custody of a court of
law or enforcement agency, in the case of the return of a firearm to
a law enforcement agency, as specified. The bill would
exempt from certain reporting requirements, firearms transfers to
certain government entities, under specified circumstances.
Vote: majority. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: no.
State-mandated local program: no.

>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

HERE IS THE INFORMATION REGARDING SB997 (from the State of California):
www.leginfo.ca.gov...


BILL NUMBER: SB
997 CHAPTERED
BILL TEXT


CHAPTER 275
FILED WITH
SECRETARY OF STATE SEPTEMBER 25, 2008
APPROVED
BY GOVERNOR SEPTEMBER 25, 2008
PASSED THE
SENATE AUGUST 19, 2008
PASSED THE
ASSEMBLY AUGUST 13, 2008
AMENDED IN
ASSEMBLY AUGUST 8, 2008
AMENDED IN
ASSEMBLY JUNE 19, 2008
AMENDED IN
ASSEMBLY APRIL 28, 2008
AMENDED IN
SENATE APRIL 26, 2007
AMENDED IN
SENATE APRIL 9, 2007

INTRODUCED BY Senator Ridley-Thomas


FEBRUARY 23, 2007

An act to amend Sections 1797.82, 1799, and 1799.2 of the
Health
and Safety Code, relating to emergency medical services.



LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST


SB 997, Ridley-Thomas. Emergency medical services:
certification
and licensure.
Existing law, the Emergency Medical Services System and the
Prehospital Emergency Medical Care Personnel Act, provides for the
certification of emergency medical technicians through the issuance
of certificates, including EMT-I and EMT-II certificates, by local
entities, known as local EMS agencies, which are designated by
counties. Under existing law, an Emergency Medical Technician II or
EMT-II is defined as an EMT-I with additional training in limited
advanced life support according to prescribed standards and who has a
validly issued certificate.
This bill would also define an EMT-I with the additional
training
in limited advanced life support described above as an Advanced
Emergency Medical Technician or Advanced EMT.

>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I'm sure you will notice that these are two very different versions of "the same bill." In fact, SB997 WAS an ammunition-related bill, but was amended into something totally different.

The California legislative information that the "Ammunition Accountability"web site addresses is long out-of-date and inaccurate!


Additionally, HR 45 did not pass last week as part of the stimulus package.

[edit on 3/20/09 by surfinguru]

Originally posted by sadisticwoman
I really wish this bill were being enacted in Michigan, too. They should have been keeping a closer eye on ammunition for a long time, and no where in the second amendment does it say anything about ammo for your arms. It also doesn't say the gov can't watch you like a hawk if you have a gun.

George W. Bush's interpretation of the Constitution is more accurate than yours, and he's never read it. Perhaps you should read it, before you cite it as a source.

...Are you americans just sitting idly by and accept this ???
You are slowly cornered in and turned into slaves and/or prisoners, freedom taken away. .. Why arent you responding ??? Is the TV getting in the way ? Toss it away, I dont watch tv any more at all, serious, nothing there is of importance or even near the truth....

You need to grasp the reality by the balls here, do not accept this, think about all the small but very important things going on in the background of this 'huge scandals', they are the least of your problems..And you Know it !

Get out of that soon to be 3rd world nation or Gods new Eden or what the h3ll is going on over there...

There is somthing HORRIBLY wrong over there,it seems to me they are Aiming for the Wall, if you know what I mean ...

What happend to the ' I will NOT go quitely into the Night...' ??? ???

Here is one I haven't seen addressed yet:

I lawfully go out and buy a box of ammuntion that is laser coded to me. Someone comes into my house as a guest and while I am not looking decides to help themselves to a handful of my legaly obtained and traced ammunition. They then use said ammo in committing of a crime. The bullet gets traced back to me. I had no idea the ammo was stolen so I never reported it. I now have no defense against criminal charges and the state has evidence that I committed a crime I had nothing to do with.

Yea, maybe I should have been more careful to put my ammo away in a locked cabinet where it wouldn't do me any good in case of emergency. Or I maybe could have been more careful about who I allowed in my house. But neither of these are the point. I have had so called friends steal from me before.

All in all this bill would only make life harder for law abiding citizens like myself and easier for the criminals.

And to address the issue of all non marked ammo being destroyed by 2011: Say I have a stockpile of ammo. Like 5 or 6 hundred dollars worth. Why should I have to spend another 5 or 6 hundred dollars PLUS the new tax? They aren't even offering a trade in of any type that I can see. If the government wants to mandate that I have to destroy something of value, then they should be required to compensate me for my loss.