Reasons for school shootings?

SCHOOL shootings like the one that devastated the small German town of Winnenden on 11 March may not just be random acts of violence. A review of similar killings in the US, and of general school aggression, indicates that some schools are more likely than others to be breeding grounds for killers.

Source here (Newscientist)

Basically they are saying that it is elitism and bullying which cause school shootings. Somehow this doesn't surprise me at all, but science is always like this. Nothing is true even if known by common sense until it is proved somehow.

It is sad that they need more data to be more precise.

I read this too in New Scientist, i think that they have a good point when it comes to bullying. I think that if you push a person hard enough for long enough they are bout to snap at some point, now if that person has access to weapons we have a real issue. The early signs/ways of stopping this would to make sure that students are in a stable way of mind, preventing bullying and other demeaning acts on single, or multiple students; i say multiple because of the Columbine High School massacre. I guess we just need to keep a closer on eye on the next generation. In the UK all students have a set class where the teachers take register and you do little activities before the proper classes start, training those teachers to spot early signs may help in the prevention of the more common school/college shootings.

reply to post by rawsom


I think this "blame the school" stuff is a bunch of nonsense. We already have done way too much to "integrate" students in schools (at least in the US). No dodge ball at recess because the fat kids can't get out of the way. No picking teams because it hurts the feelings of the kids who get picked last (now its done alphabetical or by birthday, some BS like that). Kid comes to school dressed in black with some kind of "goth" look and its his choice, not go home and come back when you are dressed like a student.

Grades are dumbed down. Kid gets the answer wrong, but his logic is reasonably correct and he gets partial credit. Kid writes a reasonable story with all of the grammar incorrect and half the words misspelled and he gets a decent grade because his content was good. Things like that. Where my sister lives (a wealthy, very liberal community), they don't let kids bring books home from school. The reason being that there are kids who have parents that take an interest in their kid's education and make them do homework and that is not fair to the kid who's parents don't care. She had to go out and buy all the books on her own.

Play sports and at least where I live, no scores until the kids are 10. Every player on every team gets a trophy. Every kid plays an equal amount of time, even the kids who don't come to any practice.

The reason for the school shootings are because when these psychos act out when they are younger the schools don't do anything about it. If these kids got tossed out of school for their anti-social behavior and clearer lines were drawn between OK and not OK behavior, some of this could be avoided.

What schools should do is create a diverse set of opportunities for kids to excel, be that music, acedemics, drama, what ever and make an effort to acknowledge those who excel in all of those things. What is going on is that there is an effort underway to not acknowledge achievement in anything. When those things are all acknowledged, folks gain an appreciation for them and the kids who excel.

Keep in mind that the majority of kids, like the majority of people won't excel at anything. That does not mean they can't participate. Thats why they put kids on the team who really won't play much and why they have more kids playing 3rd trombone then they need. Schools already do what they need to do in this regard.

The shootings are caused by kids who are troubled and has nothing to do with the school. These are the same folks who, if they did not shoot up their school, would come to work 10 years later and shoot that place up

Mind control, i was suspected of going to do something at school, they totally wrecked my life with mind control at school. I have lived this stuff, and anyone that says different is thick and not living in the real world.

The people doing the mind control, organise harressment and try desperately to get people to do something. Most people just take it and do not do anything, but the small few go and do something that the loons with the mind control want.

I found out that they used mind control in schools in 1992, in london, and it totally wrecked my whole life. So i lived this crap, and anyone that says that they do not use mind control to do these things have no idea of the real world today.

There you have your absolute answer, and this is absolute fact. Remember i have lived it, not like many who just make up different scenarios based on there ignorant lifes.

i don't like mondays.
that's a good reason.
everybody picks on me.
that is too.

see i myself had fantasies of going around and "fixing" all the students at my school when i was a youngen. i'm sure many of us have dreamt of rocking up at assembly packing a minigun and in approximately 1 minute "fixing" everyone as they filed out the doors heading for class.

it feels great that i can talk about it. what's not great is the fact that too many people can't and like in america weaponization is all too easy these days. you can almost garentee if someone had of dropped an ak-74 into my hands in mid year 11 i would have used it on those who troubled me most.

that's why it happens
we all have to ability to kill. its in all of us. the problem in schools its becoming a trend. guns make killing easy. make sticks and rocks cool and you'll see people will find it more difficult to take lives.

kids are unpredictable.



[edit on 20-3-2009 by spearhead]

I totally agree.

My school experiences were very harsh. I was the fat girl who wore glasses and read a lot.

I remember fantasizing about commiting suicide in school to "teach them a lesson" There were times when I planned in my head how to make them pay for the treatment I was given. Very Very mean, and it started in elementary school, but it was worse when I got older, those teenage emotions and hormones making me much more susceptible.


I quit school at 16 to escape that relentless cruelty. I remember well the guidance counselor asking me why I was quitting when I had always had steller grades. I guess you haven't noticed that I'm the school outcast have you, I asked her. They were clueless.

I grew up eventually.

But I'm considered the "wierd" one even now! But today with the benefit of maturity it doesn't effect me as it did as a child. Hell now I am proud of my eccentricity! Proud of not conforming!

Once in a blue moon I see those same people who tortured me as a kid. They look VERY tired. Kids, mortgages, debt, and career stress has made them old before their time - inside it makes me feel somewhat vindicated. They don't recognize me usually, I look much younger then my 36 years, and where I might have been a big teenager I eventually became a fit adult - but I'd like to think that maybe they DO recognize and are ashamed of how they treated me.

We live in a society that bases its self worth on material things. Where our heroes are "beautiful" people. Where the brand of shoe you wear makes you the person you are ( hA!).

This is a consequence of our shallowness.

The shootings are caused by kids who are troubled and has nothing to do with the school. These are the same folks who, if they did not shoot up their school, would come to work 10 years later and shoot that place up

I'm sorry but I disagree. I was troubled as a youth.I've been in the working world for over ten years now and have NEVER considered shooting my workplace up. I think that revenge fantasies are probably pretty common for abused children, and bullying IS abuse. What pushes a child over the edge? I think probably a combination of access to the means ( guns) and indifference from parents who are too busy working their tails off to make sure little Johnny has the newest gadgets so they don't have to feel guilty for not being a parent.

I agree it's not the schools fault. School ared not the place to teach our children basic social morals, that should be done at home, by us.

It's all OUR fault. We need to shoulder the responsibility for being socially defunct. For placing value on material things, for not raising our children properly.

I blame a society that uses wealth as a benchmark of self worth.

We are ALL to blame.

Personally, I think that it is bullying which causes most of the shootings. Some few may have been caused by self-proclaimed eccentric geniuses who want to think that everybody who thinks differently should die. In both cases children should be made to realize their potential, perhaps that would help a little. Or maybe not, who knows.

Bullying is one thing that schools are partially responsible to get rid off, that's for sure. Another responsible party are the parents of kids who should teach them morals and ethics. Sadly, not all parents do this or even care at all.

I don't really know how your system works there in the states, but in finland we haven't gone as far as to equalize everybody by force in everything. Some people are better at things than others, and usually everybody is able to find a class he/she excels in. We just don't have very much competition here as you people who live in states have. Competition is reserved for higher than basic education, which lasts nine years here.

Cultural difference here is that we compete against the system, not each other. I never ONCE heard anybody to say they are better at something than somebody else, specifically. People just like some class or they don't. If we had that charasteristics in our culture, I suppose somebody would have noticed it :-)

Sometimes this particular aspect of our culture does annoy me a little, since things have been easily learnt by me, always. My limits do materialize if I read highly abstract science but I really did hope sometimes to get some recognition of my intellect, I never did.


[edit on 20/3/09 by rawsom]

Blame the schools for those who choose to shoot and kill people???

What kind of bunk is that?!!!

Dont they teach kids these days that life is what you make of it?

I was taught that in pre grade school back in the late 50's. What are they teaching these days....iPod and Facebook profile creating???

It is illogical to blame schools for lack of self asteem. Perhaps the solution, and blame, can be found within the home.



Cheers!!!!

Granted there are situations that are extreme and the treatment of kids overt. All that happens when the "school" attempts to correct it is that the treatment becomes covert. The only responsibility the school has is to ensure that folks are treated with respect. They have no responsibility to eliminate cliques and strata within the society of the school.

Social situations are what they are. Kids are mean. The school has no responsibility to make growing up easy. They have a responsibility ensure that within the confines of the school property kids are treated with respect. Thats it.

Giving kids of all types an opportunity to contribute to the society of the school and equally acknowledging success in all of those things is the best the school can be expected to do.

Everyone has many points in their lives where they would like to shoot, run over or kick the crap out of someone or some group of people. 99.9% of us don't. The ones who do have emotional problems.

reply to post by RFBurns

What are they teaching these days....iPod and Facebook profile creating???

its funny you say that. it's pretty close to that. my wife works as a group leader in the kindy room at an ABC childcare. it is part of their "program" or work plan that the children of 4-5 get at a taste of technology every week. they have computers connected to the internet in a room for 4-5 years olds.

the teachers these days tend to disassociate themselves from the students on the student to mentor level. my dad, who is like old... he's a manual arts teacher at a highschool. he sees 22-25 year old teachers coming into the school to teach 13-17 year olds. from his point of view those teachers appear to be more interested playing cool than playing the disceplinary.

disassociation through association!

[edit on 20-3-2009 by spearhead]

reply to post by dolphinfan


Back when we were playing dodgeball, picking teams, etc... there werent any school shootings.

Funny that.

All of this P.C. garbage is creating sterile, numb children with no concept of reality making moronic choices like suicide and murder seem like viable options. If the slightest thing goes wrong in their petty day to day lives it's "the end of the world" and a flood of bull drama ensues.

The more of these idiots that wipe themseleves out the better. Soon the "social security" roles will flip and the last stable generation will not have their bills paid by the younger generation but instead be forced to work themselves to death to pay for the uselessness of the younger generation.

It's pathetic how many 20 somethings I know on "disability" not because they are physically incapable of caring for themselves but because they are little bitches who cant handle life.

If the slightest thing goes wrong in their petty day to day lives it's "the end of the world" and a flood of bull drama ensues.

The slightest thing going wrong for me was constant and unrelenting verbal abuse, every single day. Ignoring it, didn't make it go away.

Please don't trivialize what some of our young people are going through.

Today I understand that they were just the words of socially bankrupt, and morally dubious people, but as a child all I knew was that they were the "leaders" and no one cared that everyday I was feeling like killing myself because of the pain inflicted.

We forget that they are children and need to be protected by adults. That is our job. but we don't protect them, we neglect them in our materialistic orgy of stuff, we tell them to toughen up so we don't have to pause in our race for success, we ignore them and then ask...why?

I got through it. I grew up. I matured enough to realize not having having name brand shoes or not liking pop music didn't make me less of a person, less valuable, less worthy of respect - My parents helped, they were around, but too many young people don't have that luxuary today.

Originally posted by ProTo Fire Fox
I read this too in New Scientist, i think that they have a good point when it comes to bullying. I think that if you push a person hard enough for long enough they are bout to snap at some point, now if that person has access to weapons we have a real issue. The early signs/ways of stopping this would to make sure that students are in a stable way of mind, preventing bullying and other demeaning acts on single, or multiple students; i say multiple because of the Columbine High School massacre. I guess we just need to keep a closer on eye on the next generation. In the UK all students have a set class where the teachers take register and you do little activities before the proper classes start, training those teachers to spot early signs may help in the prevention of the more common school/college shootings.

WHY DON'T THE OTHER STUDENTS STOP THE BULLYING?

most students are quite thick and lack empathy and self awareness of their own motivations and their brain washing by their peers.

most students are quite dumb and only go to show of their latest crummy trainers and posture to each other...

just like monkeys.

Hello i found out that they use mind control at school, fact in 1992. If they where using it on me, they where certainly using it on others.

They did everything they could to get me to do something wrong, but couldn't. I cannot believe that no one else stumbles across what i found when i went to school, people must be so blinded.

The problem is that also the vendetta they had for me in school, carried in to my adult life, and they would not let me live an adult life. But again how do people not come across what i found out in 1992, is amazing.

Sometimes it is like living in a world like the film "Them", where no one can see anything. Even on this board so many are just blinded to the real world.

[edit on 3/20/2009 by andy1033]

Originally posted by Merigold

We forget that they are children and need to be protected by adults. That is our job. but we don't protect them, we neglect them in our materialistic orgy of stuff, we tell them to toughen up so we don't have to pause in our race for success, we ignore them and then ask...why?

I dont know what sort of highfalutin' caviar lifestyle you're family lives but it doesnt resemble mine one bit. Parents protect their kids? Maybe from packs of wolves and pedophiles but as soon as we left the house we were on our own. Walking to school at 7, (funny enough up hill both ways since the school was at the bottom of a hill you had to climb up from home) coming home to an empty house because school got out before work. Working as soon as you were legally able to and before then doing odd jobs for the neighborhood elderly.

Materialistic orgy? Where? New York City? I can just imagine mom blowing money on something "materialistic" and how well that would go over. If you're parents were wasting time and money on pointless garbage I feel sorry for you. It's like the ghetto trash I see with two kids and no job driving Escalades. What's to envy about that? It's like a circus and a train wreck both suffering from AIDS set on fire and pissed on to put out the flames. It's like watching some half-tard jam keys into a wall socket and thinking "I really envy that guy."

Kids with name brand crap liking pop music? You didnt figure out the lowest common denominator until pretty late in life I guess? Usually the more common a thing is the less value it has. Sorry it took you a while to catch on to that.

When you are coddled from every direction there is nothing but time for these petty yes I said petty concerns about cliques or fitting in or any of this other crap.

Life is so fake now apparently. Much more fake than I care to notice I guess.

I have no problem trivializing your perceived verbal abuse. It is after all trivial. If you feel mom and dad neglected you to buy a Maserati or some other stupid thing then that's between you and your parents. I wonder how many dollars have been made by crackpot therapists listening to the whining of privileged kids of parents who "chased success" while the rest of the world goes on with their lives.

Hands down, worst generation ever.

Originally posted by Merigold

If the slightest thing goes wrong in their petty day to day lives it's "the end of the world" and a flood of bull drama ensues.

Please don't trivialize what some of our young people are going through.

GOING THROUGH WHAT?

absolute nonsense.it is this cotton wool nonsense that is ruining america.


i am sick and tired of people making excuses for thugs and bad behaviour by teenagers.

making excuses for jaded,spoilt brats with too much money and drowning in luxury.

you have houses,cars,expensive designer clothes,ipods,fancy cellphones,your bellies are full of food,you have a 100 tv channels and it is still not enough?

you have never had it so good.

in my opinion the whole lot of you malcontents should be dumped on a one way ticket to darkest africa without the aforementioned luxuries.

that would soon straighten you lot and your incessant whining out.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by esecallum]

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Eek..angry are we?

My point was that I didn't have what kids now a days would have concieve as normal. I didn't have the fancy shoes, or the high end music systems or vacations int he caribbean. I didn't go to the prom in a $500 dollar dress in a limo.

We grew up poor in rural Florida. I never owned a pair of Nikes, and at the time as a kid, it seemed unfair. My parents taught me, rightly so, that material stuff doesn't matter, that who you are inside is what counts. BUT Everyone else..society showed me that it DID matter.

Hello? Are you there? Where the hell have you been for the last twenty years?! Western society has been in a whirlstorm of buy buy buy for the last couple of generations. Our children are taught from an early age that the benchmark of success is how much stuff you have! I find that to be sooo wrong.

By parents protecting their children I mean simply that they should protect them by teaching that having a pair of expensive trainers aren't what make you a good person. That having a house bigger then the Jone's isn't a rea measure of success.


Instead we show them that what matters is having two cars and a big house - It matters more then them since you're at work 60 hours a week - That is what we are teaching our children.

I am 36 years old. I understand now, but children don't understand, they need to be taught and if they aren't the cycle of crap continues and future generations will be crap too.

thisguyrighthere: I had a simliar childhood, and am damn grateful for it now. I will raise any children I might have the same, but it is simplistic to believe that most children are raised in this manner, they are not.

Society has a responsibility to show "OUR" children that stuff doesn't matter - We are failing them at that.

I've never had a post so completely misinterperted!

reply to post by Merigold


I have a responsibility to raise my children and you yours. "Society" whatever it is is an entity unto itself that has nothing to do with me and mine. Maybe I have been off on some island the past 20 years. An island of minding my own business and leaving others to theirs. The only time I even remotely care what others are doing or how theyre living is when the money I've made that's been extorted from me by the government is used to prop up a bunch of idiots who lives beyond their means but technically since that was/is my money their stupidity becomes my business.

Yeah well I'm a liberal commie lover.

I actually like to believe that we are all in this together.

That as a society we have some responsiblity to each other to make the world, and not just our little part of it, a better place.