It's Time...

Ok,,here is my thought on how to help..

First, I think you need a two prong attack. If you indeed think we can get the numbers of people on this site to organize to make a difference that you vote the crooks out office..Only 1/3 of congressmen come up for electon at a time, (I think) remove them..have a agreed upon candidate for all of us to suppport and do it..so it will tak 8 yrs to gain controll of congress..In the mean time, because I do not think we have 8 years to wait..is start a memership (group) to put plans in action to protest..with a back up plan of communications for revolt if all else fails.

Start the plan and see how many members you can get to respond..it will interesting to see the results..If MAD and ACORN..can do it..why can't we..

The largest obstacle is that we've financed, through incredible lies and deception (NASA and HUD are prime examples) some of the most innovative, advanced and downright frightening technological advances you've NEVER heard of nor observed.

Very Interesting indeed...I stumbled across some "Channeled Material" called "The Cassiopeian Experiment"...and in their explanation of the "Secret Governments" technological abilities, they stated that...where they are at now in terms of Technological Advancement, is roughly 30 to 40 THOUSAND years advanced of our current technology...now I am not saying that I necessarily actually believe this...but if we take this concept and work with it logically...it literally begins to boggle the mind....

This concept tells me one thing...and that is...if this is actually "True" or "Accurate" in any way...we have no "Physical" or "Technological" resource that could ever possibly defeat the system...

This then brings me back to my original thought and your addition in that the only way that we can "Protect Ourselves" is through "Knowledge/Experience/Awareness" as these things are the only things that we can carry with us into our next state of "Awareness"...whether it be physical or ethereal in nature....

just thought I would throw that out there....as a little brain teaser...

Now, putting things into perspective, it is important to understand that our world is currently run, undeniably, by a small group of dominant men in high positions of those institutions which are most dominant in society- Business and Finance. The establishment of government is in tandem with the influence and power of corporations and banks. The life blood is money, which is, in fact, an illusion that now has little relevance to society and serves as a tool for manipulation and division along a kind of social organization that guarantees elitism, crime, war and social stratification.

Simultaneously, individuals are taught that being "correct" is what creates their value as human beings. This state of being "correct" is directly related to the prevailing values of society itself. Therefore, those who accept and support the social system's views are considered "normal", while those who disagree are considered "abnormal" or even "subversive". Whether it is the dogma of a unique social tradition, or the alignment with a worldwide establishment religion, the basis is the same: Intellectual Materialism.

As we realize that knowledge and hence our institutions are always evolving, we see that any belief system which claims to "know" anything, without allowing for dispute, is a failed perspective. Religion, with its foundation in faith, is the king of this distortion, as it claims to know something definitively about the most complex and elusive origins of human kind, and this simply is not possible in an emergent universe.

That being said, it is then realized that equally as dangerous as the Establishment Power Structures, are the people who have been conditioned to completely accept the static understandings put forth by these systems... therefore becoming: "Self Appointed Guardians of the Status Quo". This applies to every system, especially political, financial and religious systems. Since people's identities become associated with the doctrines of a Country, Religion or Business ethic, it often becomes very difficult for a person to change, for his or her identity has become combined with the ideologies which have been imposed upon them.

Therefore, they perpetuate the doctrine of the institution, simply to maintain their personal integrity, as they see it.

We must break this cycle, for it paralyses our growth not only as individuals, but as a society.

Quoted from: www.thezeitgeistmovement.com...

reply to post by teklordz


Awareness of self may be important but not if it is exclusive to self.

Short story:

The other day I was riding with my mother. We came to a stop light;. There was an indigent gentleman sitting at the medium with a sign that said “Hungry”. I know my mom; she always gives these guys something and I made up my mind that I was not going to say anything. She reached in her purse, pulled out a five dollar bill and gave it to the man. I did not say anything because I couldn’t. I was speechless. The man looked at the five dollar bill and he morphed right before my eyes. He went from looking like a dejected outcast to looking like a person down on his luck. The shame and pain that was on his face melted away as his eyes filled with tears. He went from a man that had little or no hope to a man that thought that hope was still alive and that he did have worth and that someone did really care about him.

He could barely say thank you he was so choked up but he tried, he kept trying and though he couldn’t get all the words out she knew what he was trying to say. She smiled at him and said you are welcome and drove off. I watched him walk a little taller as he entered the Mc Donald’s across the street to get himself something to eat and I felt humbled. My mom didn’t say anything for I while. She finally got around to asking me why I had not chastised her for giving the man money like I normally did. I told her that she was a big girl and had the right to do with her money as she pleased but that I think that I learned a little something today.

If we are going to make a change we have to start with changing ourselves. We have to rid ourselves of all the preconceived notions that we have about rights, ownership and entitlements.

A community is built on unity and sacrifice. As long as we believe that the world is about “us” and that our worth is determined by how many items we can successfully horde then I don’t think we are going to make it.

We may not have much control over what our government or the TPTB decide to put into action. We do have control over what we buy, we use or we accept as appropriate for our lives and our communities. They can destroy our bodies. The can not destroy our hearts, our minds or our spirits unless we choose to give them over to them.

We have to start with self and join that self with others until we build a strong community that can withstand all adversity. What we can do in unity has been proven time and time again. Do not allow them to separate us. We can disagree but we must always stand together and stand strong.

We need to remember what it really means to be an American and what used to make this country great. This country was built on the blood sweat and tears of people from almost every country; people that came here to make better lives for themselves and their children. They came with a talent and a gift that they put into the building of this country.

Through diversity this country was built and we can do it again; by diversity not by derision.

I'm not quite as well spoken (or written) as some of the individuals who have posted on this thread but I'll put my opinion here...

I've often "dreamed" of a "co-operative community" where everyone helps everyone else. I've even started a thread about it but it didn't get much attention (other than posts about it must have "polictians & religion"). I for one do not adhere to the dogma of "Christianity" It is (IMO) way oversold.

The problems that I've run into with the idea of a co-operative community are the following.

1) Property ... Since in order to "own" property you have to have "money" and any property to support a large enough community to be completely self-sustaining would be quite expensive ... well, you get the idea (I hope.).

2) Property TAXES ... Since if you own property you must pay "Taxes" with "money" it would require a number of individuals to have "jobs" to make the "money" or it would require that products you've created in your community be sold for "money" which brings in more taxes (i.e. business taxes, self employment taxes, sales taxes, etc.)

3) Taxes! ... yes, taxes taxes taxes ... for if you read another of my posts about a week or so ago you would realize that "barter" is taxable! So, again, you'd have to have some "taxable" way to make money to pay more "taxes".

4) Say you were lucky enough to have the property and taxes were paid up on it for years and years into the future ... and you decide to start your self-sustainable community ... the Government would FIND a way to invade your privacy and label you "Domestic Terrorists" or take your property away from you for "Failure to pay taxes" or because you interfeared with the "Commerce Clause" (meaning you didn't "buy" like the good American you are SUPPOSED to be).

While the ideology is wonderful and I think it would go a long way to helping out the situation in general I think there are way too many loopholes that the government can use against you. Even if you are a "peaceful" community.

The ONLY way I can see this working is if there were 100% open/exposed streaming video live on the internet 24/7 about your co-operative community and there was no way for someone to say that something "perverse" or "illegal" is happening. And even then it'd still be risky.

Not to mention the fact that with the number of people that would be required to have a "truly self-sustainable" community there would have to be some sort of leadership, which in and of itself could lead to division within the community.

ARGH! LOL Such a wonderful idea that is intrinsically fraught with potential hazards. It would be ideal if people could be generous and selfless and while I think it would be possible eventually for this to come about, in all honestly I don't think society in general is ready for this type of ideology. Especially American's. (No offense intended (mostly) because I'm an American too!)

I've often pondered the thought (and only pondered because I'm not (as I mentioned above) a very well written/spoken person) of writing a book titled something like ... "GREED - How America got where it is today." or some such because I see it every single day. Greedy, selfish, "me" mentality people. Today's society is "all about me" ... in their opinions "the world revolves around me!" and it disgusts me.

I will be the first to admit that for many many years I was one of those people to a certain extent! I never quite fit in totally because I've always dreamed of helping others in some way but never knew how to do it because I was "programmed" to fit into society and do what I am told to do, etc., etc., etc. It's only been during the past few years that I've begun to really awaken from that dream (nightmare) and begun to think for myself. And only recently (the past 6 months or so) that I've really opened my eyes and seen some of the things that have been going on around us for decades. And sometimes I just flop down onto the edge of my bunk, sigh heavily, shake my head in dismay and wonder ... what do I do? Because it all is so overwhelming and mind boggeling to think about it and realize that I'm just one of a very few who can actually SEE what is going on.

Anyway, enough of my rambeling ... who knows ... maybe someday someone will be able to implement a better society. And maybe I'll be part of it. One can always hope, right?

Originally posted by pharaohmoan
]Originally posted by catseyequeen

It is a myth that it is human nature to be greedy. Get rid of greed, get rid of evil.

Greed is ingrained in the human race it is the ROOT cause of most of the chaos that has happened in the past and continues to this very day. Incidently it is also closely associated with the product of Evil and the many branches that have stemmed from it

You can't just get rid of greed as you put it this is fanciful thinking. At the very least you can re-direct it. Obviously this needs the right leadership and organisation.

My advice is get your head out the clouds and be realistic.

I agree that you can't just "get rid of it" and the process of getting rid of it would be a heavy, inside out undertaking every single human being on the planet would have to undertake and focus on and see as EXTREMELY important. But I do not believe it is in our nature simply because so many have given into it in the past and the present. I believe we can be more than that. I do believe we are all powerful enough to transcend it and evolve.

If being realistic means being pessimistic then no, I will stay aloft because I have lived in that "nothing can help and the human race is doomed and stupid" place and it did not make me or anyone around me happy. I am still trying to move beyond it. It is difficult when you look around and see people happily wallowing in blissful ignorance while the ship sinks. It is very EASY to fall into the negative dark place. But it doesn't help. Sometimes it may seem ridiculous and unrealistic but if I didn't try to be positive and see the potential in the human race, even if it is hundreds or even thousands of years away or a HARD thing to achieve, then I, and trust me everyone around me, would live a miserable life. I still have faith that we can do it if we all try and see the value in it. Sadly, viruses spread faster than change. Change is slow and HARD. People shy away from the HARD. They gravitate to the EASY. Easy has never built good character and is never something to look up to. We should welcome the hard because it makes us better and stronger human beings to conquer it.

Like I said, if we all frown upon, refuse to play into the hands and support those driven by greed, they will die out or conform. We must stop rewarding bad behavior.

We CAN redirect our greed, like Bill Murray said in Scrooged. Get greedy for the feeling of selflessly giving to others. I agree with you there.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by catseyequeen]

Originally posted by catseyequeen

It is difficult when you look around and see people happily wallowing in blissful ignorance while the ship sinks. It is very EASY to fall into the negative dark place. But it doesn't help. Sometimes it may seem ridiculous and unrealistic but if I didn't try to be positive and see the potential in the human race, even if it is hundreds or even thousands of years away or a HARD thing to achieve, then I, and trust me everyone around me, would live a miserable life.

Yes...I am a 1 year old when it comes to awaking to the world around me...I am still a Virgin so to speak...and I agree that I have felt the exact same way as you have just posted...this is indeed sad...but like you said...we have to push past the realization and begin to focus on the Infinitum of Possibilities that could occur both positively and negatively...and use the Positively charged thoughts to possibly move forward and enlighten others and ourselves in the process...

but again...I am not trying to discount my "Knowledge" of the "Dark" so to speak...as this would only diminish my "Knowledge" of the "Light"...and again...I am just a Newbie "Awakened One"...as I am sure there are a "Hell" of a lot of people out there that have been aware for much longer than I...

To have insights from those that have been trudging through this mess for years or even decades...any input would be invaluable to myself...and I believe...many others...We Are All ONE in the end...

I have been reading the likes of "David Icke", "John Pennial" (The Children of The Law of One and The Lost Teachings of Atlantis), "The Law of One Ra" Channeled Material, Penetration by Ingo Swann, The Cassiopeian Experiment (Laura Knight Jadczyk) ie. "The Wave"....Gurdjieff....Ouspensky...Ibid...etc....

I was thinking of beginning my next journey into the Sufi and Buddhist Teachings...I am familiar with the Buddhist Teachings...not so much with the "Sufi" Teachings...

Any suggestions folks...????...I know this is not really in line with the "OP's" original Thread...but I believe I need a kickstart...as we are all inherently Service To Self type folks no matter how spiritual we become in this reality...Even Jesus had Problems in the Garden of Gethsemane...

Thanks in Advance....

Oh and another solution to this thread may very well be "The Gift Economy"...not sure myself as I have not researched this in Detail...but...it appears on the surface to be a balancing Mechanism of some sort...and may be a start to this process....

Thanks in advance....for all your hard work and conscious efforts...to one and to all....

reply to post by cnichols


"""""...."Not to mention the fact that with the number of people that would be required to have a "truly self-sustainable" community there would have to be some sort of leadership, which in and of itself could lead to division within the community"..."""""

Yes...I fear that this is one of the major stumbling blocks in our progression...in "Ancient Times"...when "real" Shamans and Mystics and Alchemists existed...the community would set these people as their Leaders and it seemed to work quite well back then...

But this brings to me a a very real question...how did the "Normal Community/Majority" actually know that these "Magical" Beings were actually "Magical/Mystical" at all...this is where the Division always lies...

Therefore ONE is always bound to reach a Division...unless all others are as intrinsically "Aware" as the ONE...and Therefore this particular Group will not need a "Leader"...so...I think that it will be in the Leadership of All involved...and again we run into a Conflict when All are not ONE...Catch 22

I guess what I am trying to get at is...We Can Only Progress so far based on the lowest level of Awareness that "All" of us are currently at...and for most of those that are a wee bit more aware than others this can be a frustrating concept...until we begin to push past it...We will do what we will do...to one another and to "All"....that is Nature's Way...The Wolves are on the Prowl...They will do what they will do...

Cruel and Unusual...mbbe...Maddening....mbbe...Just as we feed from the Plants and Animals of the World, so to, do the Corporate, Political & Religious Entities Feed off of us Sheeple...

Are we this feeble in the Attempt to Change our own progression that I have the last say?

How Truly Sad this is...keep drinking your Pepsi and Coca Cola...lol...

Originally posted by pharaohmoan
This is one of the toughest posts I probably ever written but I'll try to give a possible, no, guaranteed solution:

*It starts with in God we Trust: (/trust in your higher self)*

I'm not trying to argue, just clarify some things.
You also bring up many good points!
Unfortunately, without God's help, many people's 'higher self' is a selfish, egotistical, reward-based one.
Like Pavlov's dogs, sort of.

God gave us a key ability and that is to "Follow our hearts". That is where the God spark is. Those in tune with their hearts realise very quickly what is right and wrong. Along with an uncorrupted mind it is your instinct mechanism!

The Bible says that men's hearts are usually evil and will mislead you without His instruction and guidance.

Close to following the heart comes the nurturing of the human spirit, this is currently under threat and it is the human spirit that is slowly being controlled and manipulated......THIS IS WRONG and goes against the grain of what resonates within us. Realisation of this begs the question who is responsible? In short we and greed are. The problem is greed has run riot and led to huge corporations whom the government (initially appointed as a voice by the people) are protecting. Ie they are protecting THE SYSTEM OF SUPPLY OF NEED AND GREED.

From babylon, until now, the human spirit has wanted an antichrist to give them what they want without any moral obligations. Yes, maybe a sacrifice of wine or wheat , possibly human,
but, still no changes in their character.

Capitalism was created to meet the needs and enable people to live freer and easier. What we have forgotten is why we need the free time in the first place which was literally TO BE FREE. Freedom is unfortunately not really understood and really needs to be RE-EMPHASISED. A side issue here is that freedoms are watered down if you try and please all the people all of the time, something perhaps we can discuss further?

Free from slavery.

*Supply*

The number one issue is that the greater our need for a product or service the more power we give to the establishment that provides that product or service. Now because of the nature of capitalism a company’s main goal is to make more money for its shareholders THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED and leads to abuse, control and manipulation. Advertising (a key aspect of business) is a demon, we're not stupid and know what we need and when. Advertising leads to an EGOTISTICAL type mentality that is cluttering our high streets and lives with the wrong type of information. This aspect of society is OUT OF CONTROL and akin to a motion with NO DRIVER, understand it JUST IS and is a spin off of supply and capitalism.
But IT NEEDS FIXING or at the very least guided.

Greed, envy, pride, All evil.

*Fixing the supply problem*

I don't profess to know all but I know enough to say.......

1. Create a law for the redistribution of cooperate wealth and focus the monies on what is MORALLY RIGHT (again to be re-established) and which meets the needs of what I discussed above ie the solution resonates with us. Simple right? Simplicity always works best imho.

We could do SOMETHING without embracing Communism!
Im no economic expert, though.

2. CAP company earnings based on either net profit or turnover. Say 5 million for the sake of argument. BP and similar companies making BILLIONS is simply CRAZY.

Isn't it a monopoly?
Who owns the rights?

3. The government or people need to systematically claim ownership of a company (thereby changing and replacing the current system of share ownership) in the form of having a voice for a given company's direction.

I think companies owe to their countries of production and consumation.
Instead of getting around taxes and claiming they're from another country.

4. The government or people need to end the need for a 5 day working week. 4 days is more than adequate and the extra day of entertaining oneself will create more employment if not full employment.

Not with the wages we have in the US, I don't know about the UK.

5. A new political system to be designed that meets the peoples needs and nurtures the human spirit and the freedoms that come with this.

Like the Republic, we used to have.

6. Control the output of ADVERTISING is steers people for the wrong reasons. Replace it instead with information we need or like.

Well, with freedom of speech and stupid people wanting stupid stuff. .......IDK.

- CONVINCE BILL GATES he can add great momentum to the cause, I will start by emailing him this post, you should try something similar.

Yeah, if he's not already a CFR member or something similar, he really could do a lot of good!

- USE TECHNOLOGY The technical revolution is not an accident it is there to facilitate our evolution. SO USE IT

It does have good potential!

- HAVE A COMMITTED FOCAL POINT Where like minds can "converge" ATS is already doing this but it’s important this happens at a physical level in your community.

Yes, instead of getting sidetracked, we should coalesce against the NWO and other evils.

- NETWORK - The focus is on you to DO SOMETHING, be constructive use your imagination to get the attention you need to EFFECT CHANGE.

Yep!

- THIS IS IMPORTANT - Never forget this, we are the soldiers of our history, we are at the crest of a wave, we stand on the shoulders of giants. DON'T PASS THE BUCK or think you don't count if you're not happy ACTION should be your number one priority. DO NOT DENY YOURSELF HAPPINESS or resign to accepting the status quo, this is LAZYNESS.

well, some peoples happiness is laying on a couch, while the world goes to heck.

- ACTION - Once you have a network in place do something to GET NOTICED.........ANYTHING JUST GET NOTICED. Don't worry about fear or ridicule you're a soldier on a quest remember so act like one !!!!! When you are noticed make sure you have a clear message, choose any identified aspect of what needs fixing and BE SPECIFIC in describing the reason for you drastic/noticeable/amusing/powerful actions. If you get the media’s attention then all the better.

EXACTLY!

Thanks!

reply to post by cnichols


I agree with you.. Some people take pride in paying taxes because it adds to a sense of personal vilification and contribution to community, country, and purpose. But where are the laws that require us to pay income taxes? There aren't any the last time I heard. Yet the IRS can still force the issue by intimidating and hounding with no legal justification for doing so.

The idea of community and community purpose can absolutely be positive if the community always works together. But they rarely do except in small towns and cities (and even then, corruption and greed can run rampant). The problem goes much deeper than holding hands and working together toward a common goal. The problem is not only ourselves either (although that is part of it I think). I just don't think it's really that black and white..

To put it broadly, I think the main problem is what papa roach calls a "tyranny of normality". One way of explaining it is this: What we view as socially acceptable and normal behavior can easily be used by the wealthy and the corporate oligarchy in general to attack the community indirectly by broadening the gap between the rich and the poor in society. It is this overall misleading idea of the "American Dream" that creates people who are so incredibly wealthy and powerful they can then use that money and power to apply their own tools for social control and government manipulation. I am much less powerful than the guy who pays hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars towards the campaign of a prominent political figure.
But it is still completely legal for those with wealth and power to indirectly manipulate society in these ways when it is really just a broad protectionist racket designed around the powerful and wealthy protecting each other with the help of the government in some cases (Bush was a great example). These guys are basically monsters created and condoned by the very well-meaning system of community and opportunity that created them.

Our rights as American citizens are not rights and they are not guaranteed.. The government (as a singular unit) can do whatever it wants regardless of these little things called laws or rights. Just like George Carlin said.. "They are a set of temporary privelages" and he is absolutely right. But it is completely backwards. WE are supposed to be the government. The japanese-Americans that were put in concentration camps by their own government during world war 2 were American citizens. Where were their rights when they needed them? Where was their government leadership to protect them?

The constitution, the economy, even community itself, is all designed and built around a broad system of control. I'd like to say that the economy will change but it won't.. Our economic system will continue as it is despite warnings and obvious signs that it will inevitably all come crashing down. It might not happen tomorrow, it might not happen 100 years from now. But as long as perpetual debt is socially acceptable in our country and can be branded as the "American dream" to make people accept it, we will never get out of the hole we are digging for ourselves. The dollar will eventually devalue itself until there is nothing left. We hear alot about bailouts these days but nothing about permanent solutions to our economic problems. The bailouts are almost the government's way of getting people's minds off these big problems that are only getting worse. They are only temporary attempts at a short-term solution. But as long as it can pass a few earmarks for "community well-being" its in the interest of the "public good" right? Wow..

-ChriS

yep, first, be aware of the problem. i.e. people in power and control who have most of the money are serving their own interests, not the interests of the group. (service to the self)

for the self to be truly happy, it must help others. spread resources willingly. no one must take more than their share. people must WANT to share and live together and to help each other. this has to be the model for the future or any revolution will fail and the mistakes of the past will repeat.

a society cant allow people to get power if those people dont care about others or genuinely want EVERYBODY to be happy/looked after. Care, in short, about others.

What can you do?

Dont worship people just because they seem to be rich and powerful.
Dont be in awe of people becuz you feel they are strong and tough.

true strength is shown by those who suffer the most. the poor, the hungry, the woman in childbirth, the crippled, the sick, the elderly, the helpless. It is THESE people you should respect most and be in awe of.

if you cannot see this, everything you try to do to change the world will fail, becuz you will end up electing another tyrant to leadership, or someone egotistical or shallow, or uncaring.

On another level, you can plant a garden.
grow your own food. dont rely on supermarket food and lose your connection to nature. Most food in shops is bad for you or actually poisoned with numbers/chemicals. its not even safe to eat.
look after your health. dont eat much meat or dairy. or sugar. eat vegetables, fruit, beans, nuts seeds eggs, chickpeas lentils. grains/bread rice. drink water fruit juice vegie juice green tea or herbals. youll live longer. u wont get cancer.

limit your population growth. only have children to replace yourself or your partner. we're over populated.

form strong bonds with others in the community and build from these. bring others into your networks. teach them this stuff.

dont be a slave to banks, business and money. to greed and wealth.

this planet is YOURS. you were BORN here. it is your RIGHT to live on a piece of earth here and grow your own garden. you dont have to ask anyone for permission or pay any money to someone; it's your RIGHT. demand this right from your leaders. get networks together and pass the word on.

live in balance with nature and animals and dont exploit them or you will come unstuck. karma will get you.

spread the ideas for a new future to as many as you can. spread the distrust of authority figures. spread the idea of thinking for yourself and not trusting everything the media says. spread hope for a new future and consciousness of love.

this is the best way. then once the ideas have spread, action can be taken. non violent; you want to convert people if possible. you want to help them to understand why this is the right way. the only way. and the best thing for THEM not just you.

some ideas.

if things get bad, defend yourself and your family; but dont hurt people who havent hurt you.
even if theyre not on your side; if they havent hurt you u shudnt hurt them. the only way to get change is to try to make people understand; u cant force them to.

The trouble with the world is there are 3 catagories of people with regard people and change. Those with all theory and no action, those with action and no theory and those with no theory and no action.

If those that had the theory had the courage to act then life would be better.

Acting on Theory...is the same as acting on "Free Energy" Principles...it goes against the "ARAMCO"...Deity...of "Money and Power"...Billions...just as some of the "Mods" of this nefarious outfit have been bought by "TPTB"...ARAMCO...they want to protect themselves...Tesla...was backed by JP Morgan...who in turn buried "Free Energy"...and any theory that contradicts..."Free Energy"....is lovingly accepted and confused to the "Nth" Degree...Love those that "Suppress"...and hate those that set you "Free"...