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It's over now, we have monetized our debt! (AIG is a smoke screen)

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posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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Remember one thing, you CAN NOT tax the rich if they do not want to be taxed. The 'uber' rich is why most of us have jobs.




posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Wow that article about the FED doing swaps with other central banks was eye-opening indeed. I wonder if the adjustment we are seeing will make the dollar STRONGER, so strong that it would be bad and therefore the FED 'prints' more to keep it low. Remember, the dollar has been were people have been putting assets lately, it has been RISING. They are not having ANY issues selling the Treasuries, none.


Huh.? Current currency.. $1 USD = .73 Euro and steadily declineing ... atm Investing $20 USD only gives 14.75 Euro.. This has been on a steady decline.. at least last week $20 USD got you over 15. Euro.

Gold did shoot up. Doesnt take much to see.. Yet the USD still barrels down.. Hence why anyone knows atm the best option is start converting USD out as much as you can.

the resources are there .. More popular ones like the gold/silver forums normaly deal with most metals.

Regardless, Right now is the time to start getting what ever USD you have to spare converted out.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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And how many trillions in debt have been built up by previous repub admins? What was the debt in ratio to GDP in 1945 when we ended the Great Depression?


Well since you asked,





posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by Bldrvgr

Huh.? Current currency.. $1 USD = .73 Euro and steadily declineing ... atm Investing $20 USD only gives 14.75 Euro.. This has been on a steady decline.. at least last week $20 USD got you over 15. Euro.

Regardless, Right now is the time to start getting what ever USD you have to spare converted out.



Well early last year I bought some MAJOR equipment in Euros at $1.60 a Euro. Now I could buy the same thing at $1.35, thats a 15% savings now......



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by edsinger
 



Remember one thing, you CAN NOT tax the rich if they do not want to be taxed. The 'uber' rich is why most of us have jobs.


Wow, if you believe this, then you have been completely brain washed. The rich create nothing, they are crooks, simply and completely. The market economy was created by craftsmen and merchants, not investors. The super rich are a creation of the Industrial era, and as we enter the information age, where mass production can now be achieved in a garage and marketing can be done on the internet, the next step will be to eliminate these giant corporations which are nothing more than giant parasites.

AS for the link you provided, it is quite obvious that we are a long ways from the end, the fat lady hasn't even began to warm up. Remember, 1945 ebded the great depression.

If it doesn't go the middle class, though, then it will be the end. WE have supply without demand. It is the demand side that needs help.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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the Aig bonus outrage is a smoke screen as william engdahl penned.....

because the real scourge is that AIG counter party's are getting money funneled to them thru the back door (Aig bailout's be paid to counter party's)....and some say these counter party's banks are the owner's of the fed itself! though how the heck could one check this

another intersting tidbit was reading that wayy back in 2006 George bush allowed certain investment banks to legally lie about there operating expenses/profits i.e condition as a matter of national security.......gee i see Citigroups operating profits announcement as very shallow indeed

Sure the fed may be forced to buy long term gov't debt because foreign creditors are growing more nervous holding long term debt obligations....the chineese keep buying but have SHIFTED nearly 95% of all purchases to short term gov't debt i.e 13 week/ 3 month treasury's!!!

after the balance of payment data came out the fed had to make a statement in order to keep Long term intrest rates down to keep high interest rates on long term debt from impairing the gov't ability to run high deficits (of course they could just add a few million more net short positions on jp morgans interest rate derivatives forcing rates down....so we shall see how much monetizing goes on and how many contract JP morgan adds to it's net short position)....

should the fed raise interest rates it could attract some buyers of debt and drop the price of gold.......but impair the ability of the gov't to finance a large deficit....as interest rates on the debt would run dangerously high ( since tax revenue is declining very very rapidly!) which would be a bad one-two punch........perhaps you will soon wake up and hear that there is a coordinated one time currency devaluation occuring and that all gold purchases are suspended.........in order to reduce debt........and artificially inflate housing values and other financial assets......however the negative would be that all prices for goods would likely inflate and 401k's may be devalued by an equal percent (although govt's may be able to ...intervene to account for this to prevent an uprising).....although another negative would be employers probably not increasing wages to keep up with devaluation and cost of living increases.(although the fed's could mandade a minimum wage increases or employers could face a outrageous tax rate)..remember almost all country's employed this to get out of the great depression)so.........and to prevent an uprising from overcoming the nation...........they may just make Ammo nearly impossible to get or use legally

[edit on 20-3-2009 by cpdaman]

[edit on 20-3-2009 by cpdaman]



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Bldrvgr

Huh.? Current currency.. $1 USD = .73 Euro and steadily declineing ... atm Investing $20 USD only gives 14.75 Euro.. This has been on a steady decline.. at least last week $20 USD got you over 15. Euro.

Regardless, Right now is the time to start getting what ever USD you have to spare converted out.



Well early last year I bought some MAJOR equipment in Euros at $1.60 a Euro. Now I could buy the same thing at $1.35, thats a 15% savings now......


Hell not even forex will give that rate..

Saturday, March 21, 2009

20 US Dollar = 14.67771 Euro

20 Euro (EUR) = 27.25220 US Dollar (USD)

Median price = 0.73381 / 0.73389 (bid/ask)
Minimum price = 0.72846 / 0.72853
Maximum price = 0.73978 / 0.73983

hell have to spend $27 USD to get 20 euro and your telling me someone is biteing the bill ? Please whos the contact ? I have no problem takeing that "savings"

-edit hell i dont care if you want to be right or not.. I just want that contact please.... ?

[edit on 20-3-2009 by Bldrvgr]



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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It was in late 2007/early 2008, the EURO has LOST value since.



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
It was in late 2007/early 2008, the EURO has LOST value since.


I can care less about the debate.. It realy has no value to it.. But that contact would be good to have. Esp with how rates have been fluxuateing.


and if you mean early 2009 since you referanced "now" in the other post ... It still would be good to have.

forex.com
Sunday, January 11, 2009

20 Euro = 26.95920 US Dollar

20 US Dollar (USD) = 14.83724 Euro (EUR)

Median price = 1.34696 / 1.34796 (bid/ask)
Minimum price = 1.34252 / 1.34352
Maximum price = 1.34728 / 1.34828



posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by daddyroo45
 


sorry to tell you but it is in recievership , and has been for a good long while, same here in Canada, our income taxes go to the reciever general.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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What if this turns out to be a good thing. How about instead of spending 100 billion on pork we re open factories in the US, employ citizens and build all the crap we buy from China, Indonesia and every other country that does nothing to help the American citizen?

Let the dollar slide and maybe we will need to invest in ourselves instead of putting it into CFO 401k accounts and off shore markets. We are the US of A and we are not going anywhere. Sorry. Not gonna happen. This fear is unfounded. There is unemployment but it is the business sector that is using the fear as an excuse. Trust me. They will start hiring people back in 6 months at 3/4 of the salary and people will be happy.

This is not the end of the world, it is just a trying time. I am more afraid of a terror attack occuring on US soil then I am suddenly not finding bread at Wal Mart. remember folks...if the Mart starts to slip, stock up on ammo.....



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by Loonix

Originally posted by skoalman88
Great post! On a side note, am I the only one suspicious of the "new" Beck? He came out swinging from day one and hasn't stopped. I find it odd.


Yeah he doesn't sit well with me. I have an gut feeling, nothing more, that he is trying to p!ss the population off in a hope that they do something drastic.



Okay in this video from 01:51 - 02:12

Apparently 'they' been working for over a week on a graphic to support a news story that happened yesterday?

Am I the only person to find this odd?




[edit on 20-3-2009 by Loonix]


I repost my question as it got lost among the pointless "I am holier than thou trolling"



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 06:10 AM
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Why are you idiots following fox aka faux news?



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
It was in late 2007/early 2008, the EURO has LOST value since.


It's a pointless argument.

It's like sitting on a 747 thats plunging towards the ground & arguing with the fella in the 737 that he's the one whos losing altitude because he's lower than you are. If you measure both against the ground you'll see that you're both going to get a big smack.

Compare the Euro, Dollar, Pound or anything to gold & you'll see that they're all hurtling rapidly towards the ground.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
And how many trillions in debt have been built up by previous repub admins? What was the debt in ratio to GDP in 1945 when we ended the Great Depression?



Well since you asked,




In 1945 the US economy was already on steam selling millions of war material and being the biggest creditor in the world thus lending money. Maybe you have forgotten what happened with the balance of trade ever since the 50's with the rise of Japan and Germany?
The fact is scary that there are no foreign investors anymore wanting to buy US bonds, because its a risky asset nowadays, it's what Wen Jiabao said.So not only those investors are going to sell their bonds and dollar reseverses incrementaly , the FED is gonna print at least 300 billion dollar, causing hyperinflation [they don't know when to hit the brakes]..
It has never worked before[Weimar/Zimbabwe], so be ready to take a wheelbarrow when you go to the ATM...



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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the Fed Reserve has monetized the CDS (credit swaps)
not 'debt'... there is a difference...


There is also the theory that 'debt' is not the issue here... the other theory is that the Fed/Treasury used the 'bailouts' as a method to 'Pay' those
foreign banks... for their lost money in buying the overrated & bogus
mortgage paper that was issued by the big American Investment Banks,
....
notice in the following ~snip~, that the recent AIG bailout funds
are not 'Loans'... the bailouts $ is for monetizing overvalued asset/liabilities
and not credit creation.
~~~The money manipulators have found a back-door to making-whole the finances of Allies whose banks were ripped off by the over-zealous & greedy issuers of derivatives at the USA investment banks.
These funds, another $30billion does not have to be paid back by a revived AIG... as the article states
(in bold text)


source: "Bailouts are Wrong-Headed' of 20 March, 2009 by Gordon Ringoen

[....]
AIG just now disclosed that the first $100 billion of Fed money went to pay, among others, foreign banks more than $50 billion for credit default swaps (CDS).
More than 80% of CDS are established for speculative purposes. Ironically, Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs, also recipients of bailout funds, received more than $12 billion and $6 billion respectively from Fed funded AIG payments.
There is no repayment from payoffs for credit default swaps!




What i like best are listed under: Preferred Course Of Action
as the magical slight-of-hand has already been done to us in the handling of AIG ... all we can do is go forward from here...




~continued~
Now, the argument given by the government for these bailouts are that, without them, the entire financial system would collapse, or as they like to say, it would foster systemic risk. Bailouts or financial collapse are false choices. Instead of giving non-discriminating bailouts, the government could let these insolvent financial institutions fail and then make direct grants or loans, where necessary, to avert total collapse. It could be considered a controlled demolition. Though painful, it would reduce the total cost to the government, and most importantly, would destroy uneconomic claims necessary to bring the real economy and the financial system back to balance.

In their own right, bailouts fail under any circumstance. If, in the unlikely scenario, they do reflate the financial system, the bubble would still exist and huge amounts of additional credit would be needed to get the economy expanding again. The bubble would just be bigger for the next bust. The amount of credit required to perform this would surely bankrupt the country by making the U.S. dollar worthless and would chase away foreign investors and central banks who own 60% of our Treasurys. The total amount of bailouts necessary to reflate is unknowable but it is more that we can withstand. Remember, our total GDP is $14 trillion, while our total debt is more that $60 trillion and the unregulated derivative monster in the back room has half a quadrillion-dollar nominal price tag, including more than $50 trillion in credit default swaps. In more specific terms, although they will not disclose the total extent of its liabilities, continued AIG bailouts alone could possibly bankrupt the country. On the other hand, if the bailouts are insufficient, the financial system could crash in any event and we would have put the country further in hock for no good reason.

Preferred course of action

The following suggestions are no sure plan for success, but are improvements over the current misguided programs currently being instituted by the government. For those of us with some capital − OUCH!

+ Discard the wrong economic theories that focus on liquidity rather than on the real culprit of excessive credit. Recognize that the real problem is insolvency of our financial system. We must continue to deflate financial assets to bring them in line with the real economy.

+ Get rid of the economists and government officials who are incapable of understanding our situation and bring in realists who can address our problems based on rational thinking and facts rather than goofy economic theories or political dogma.

+ Fully disclose where the government (including the Fed) money is being spent. Disclose the purpose of funds spent, and reveal the prospects for repayment. Disclose how the money spent affects our long term economic prospects.

+ Use the government funds in stimulus programs that put people back to work and provide economic value rather bailing out institutions and individuals with worthless assets.

+ Stop the uncontrolled bailouts and let firms fail if necessary. This controlled destruction will provide the necessary pruning of our financial system.

+ Use discretion in directing funds to those that can not financially survive the fallout, save worthwhile businesses, and exact programs that will reduce chain reaction bankruptcies.

Gordon Ringoen, a retired investment adviser, is an entrepreneur and college professor who lives in San Francisco.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Views are as of March 19, 2009, and are subject to change based on market conditions and other....



the whole commentary is much longer, to read go here: www.prudentbear.com...


Thanks,



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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I'm not a mathematician,but I really can't figure how any debt would be considered liquid,unless you cooked your books a bit.
The U.S. has been a debt based system since around 1933.
The true lie is in the book-keeping practices on the other side of the rainbow,the people you allow to control your lives,who issue your "notes of credit/debt"...which is your fake money.

Sorry,I didn't read the whole thread.....It becomes so tiring trying absorb all of the abject ignorance people spew,notes are supposed to be exchanged for something of value,like gold,a constant.
But that is all lost for now.
So we will just let someone else tell us what our sweat ,and blood and tears are worth for now,until we wake up,I guess.....

[edit on 21-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by Loonix
 


He has been working on the money graphic....to "visually" show how much a trillion dollars is.

He's been talking about it for over a week. I know this because i listen to his show.

It's only to give people a sense on how much a trillion dollars really is.

There's nothing to it man. You are trying to read into something that isn't there.



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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i must be psychic or something,because
i am an unemployed tradesman,considered not particularly intelligent by any means,by anyone as far as i know....
but for some strange reason beyond my comprehension,i guess,i get the impression things are not entirely right,and have not been for some time.
gee whiz

[edit on 21-3-2009 by chiponbothshoulders]



posted on Mar, 21 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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As far as business in the U.S. goes....We as a country have become too lazy,almost preffering to be on some kind of "welfare" whether we have jobs or not,right up to those serving in congress.Makes you really wonder who's getting served...and then you have those tax dodging corporations,which I believe may be the ones they are talking about in the the IRS code 26 ( I think ?),which are supposed to be paying the taxes,and smaller businesses,of course paying a smaller percent,respectively,on their profits



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