Apollo 11 Armrstrong “These babies were huge, sir!”

Originally posted by YourForever
reply to post by Dionix187

 

In a video on the first page it shows actual NASA document with the astronaut's words, transcribed from flight recorders.

That's great, but its still not evidence.

I could just as easily do something like that and video record it my self, slap taken from astronauts and claim its from NASA.

Until there is some actual documentation you can all see, then I'm afraid this story has no credit what so ever.

Originally posted by Dionix187

I could just as easily do something like that and video record it my self, slap taken from astronauts and claim its from NASA.

Until there is some actual documentation you can all see, then I'm afraid this story has no credit what so ever.

I agree. Where do you think we could locate some actual documentation to validate the video?

I hope your not going to say NASA....unless by some chance there is a way to validate what comes out of NASA too.

Like a row of dominoes...who dares to let the first one fall when the intent is to keep them upright?



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Dionix187

Here's the transcript of the Apollo 10 DSEA recording.
www.netwrx1.net...

The part in question begins on page 197 (04:06:13:02) but it's interesting to start reading a few pages before that to pick up the mood of the astronauts. They're joking around and eating snacks through the whole thing. Eugene Cernan seems the most intrigued by what they're hearing but they really don't seem to be very concerned about the whistling sounds they hear from their radio. It's mentioned sporadically; (04:06:17:58), (04:07:32:58), (04:07:37:56), (04:07:40:51) and there is a lot of other stuff going on in between.

I think they were getting interference on their radios. If it had been actual "music", I don't think the conversation about it would have been quite so casual.

Here is a link to a short video that explains the "object" seen around the craft; www.youtube.com...

[edit on 21/3/09 by Death_Kron]

reply to post by Phage


Maybe we should go back up to the Dark Side of the Moon and put a shield up to deflect this Music Beam that communicates/controls the moon,than maybe we will see the moon drift off in to space peacefully.
And for human kind to encounter the full wrath of the beam music.

OR

Would it be so Profound to surgest this Music was Heard Only because it was a Solid Object that could receive/vibrate with it!

Just a Thought,there good I hope.

Zelong.

reply to post by Death_Kron

I guess you missed this. Here's what Aldrin really says about it. Without the deceptive editing.

Originally posted by shadow watcher
Here is an account from an engineer who jumped through the NASA hoops in Houston to get permission to view moon pictures. He claimed that when he and his associate went to NASA in Houston and inquired about looking at moon pictures, they were met with many obstructions, but after submitting many requests and answering questions, they were finally permitted to view some. Saccheri tells of his findings. This took place many years ago, but it seems compelling if true.

Vito Saccheri's account

This is in my archives:

Why I don’t believe the ‘NASA UFO’ stories from Vito Saccheri
James Oberg

Reference: Article from "Houston Sky" No.5, June/July 1995
www.sacred-texts.com...

Saccheri, an oil engineering expert, recounts a 1979 experience with a ‘Lester Howes’ in Houston. After they met, “he told me he was both an amateur astronomer and a ufologist and that he wanted my help in obtaining access to secret photos held somewhere inside NASA.

Saccheri continued, with my comments following:

“Les showed me a small paperback book entitled "Somebody Else Is on the Moon," written by a former NASA scientist, George H. Leonard. Leonard had been working in the photo intelligence division of NASA.”

This is fantasy. Leonard never worked for NASA, especially the ‘photo intel’ division’. Heck, even Leonard never CLAIMED he worked for NASA. Saccheri made this up.

“After arguing futilely with NASA authorities about releasing the photos, Leonard published them himself in his book.”

This is fantasy. Leonard GOT the photographs from published sources. He did NOT ever possess “unpublished” photos. Saccheri made this up.

“Reinforcements were called in, and we soon found ourselves having the same conversation with the big boys from administration. None had seen the book, but significantly, one had taken the time to confirm that Leonard was in fact a former NASA scientist-at the Jet Propulsion Lab, from what I could gather.”

This is fantasy. Leonard never worked ANYWHERE for NASA – and nowhere in his book does he claim he DID.

“We were directed to a Building 30, which had not been on the tour and which didn't even exist. Building 30 A turned out to be empty so we walked into Building 30 B and found ourselves in the middle of a high-security area where an existing mission was being monitored.”

This is fantasy. Building 30 existed, and was on the public tours (it is better known as ‘Mission Control’), and was easy to visit, because in 1979 there WERE no NASA manned space missions to monitor.

“Finally, some serious discussions transpired. The photo library, we were told, had been relocated off site to the ‘Lunar Landing Observatory’ directly adjacent to the east NASA property on NASA Road 1. “

This is fantasy. The lunar photographs were (and always had been) in the “Lunar Science Institute”, the former Jim (“Silver Dollar”) West hunting lodge, east of JSC on NASA Road 1. The name (and the ‘relocation’) are fantasy.

“Two days later, we drove east on NASA 1 past the main entrance of the facility, found a chain-link fence that marked the eastern limit of the property line, expecting to see a building or sign. Nothing but a heavily wooded area! Driving back and forth along the road trying to decide whether they had done it to us again, we noticed a narrow dirt road running back into the woods directly along NASA's fence line. Hung on the chain between two small posts was a sign that read simply: "No Trespassing." Instinct told us this had to be the place. We lowered the chain and drove about three-quarters of a mile down the dirt road, which U-turned back toward the highway. Directly behind the trees and camouflaged by the woods was our building.”

This is fantasy. The building is 50 yards from the road, with an open lawn in front of it. The driveway is paved. I used to visit there often. There was no chain across any dirt road – not until years later when the institute moved to a new, much larger building about two miles to the north.

“When we told the receptionist we wanted the library, she pointed toward the broom closet, which as it turned out, opened onto a winding stairway leading down into a dimly lit under-ground tunnel. I'm certain it took us back toward the NASA property line.”

This is fantasy. The LSI had no basement, it was all crawl space (as I personally showed Rebecca Schatte, a writer for ‘Houston Sky’, who later showed up to try to verify Saccheri’s story). The photo archives were in the library just off the large entry hall – on the ground level. All this architecture is just fantasy.

“But after a quick glance, he gave us the bad news: the numbers were meaningless in Houston. He explained that for security reasons, NASA had split the country into five regions, each with a duplicate set of records and a different code number system. Leonard's numbers weren't applicable in this facility. I asked where the master list was kept, and Roger replied at Langley, Virginia. Les and I looked at each other…”

This is fantasy. The NASA Apollo photographs have exactly one code number, but when reissued as part of press releases, they received a public affairs office reference number too (these were the numbers Leonard used, which shows that the pictures were NOT ‘unpublished’). The press office has a conversion sheet for the numbers it uses. There are different sections of the country assigned to different NASA sites for educational support activities, and the NASA Langley Research Center (in Hampton Roads, Virginia, near Norfolk) handles a bloc of eastern states.




[edit on 21-3-2009 by JimOberg]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
Excellent thread.

Based on easily refuted hoaxes.

Chatelain, for example, was a French science fiction writer who wrote books on 'ancient astronauts'. He never worked for NASA, was never in charge of Apollo communications, and had a primo imagination. And he's fooled generations of intellectually defenseless UFO buffs.

In the mid-1960s he briefly worked for 'North American' in Downey, California, but according to a co-worker (whom I talked to personally), was fired before the Apollo program even started when he was caught using company travel funds to recruit staff for a French restaurant he was starting up.

He dishes it up, and lots of folks swallow it down.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Put all this together with the testimony given by Farouk el Baz, a much respected NASA scientist who worked on Apollo who said in an interview with Saga magazine that not all discoveries made on the moon have been made public and you start to realise that there's something on the moon which NASA don't want you or I knowing about.

Farouk still works at Boston University. Why not call him and ask him what 'Saga' made up about that alleged quotation, instead of passively regurgitating the same old questionable quotations? Check it out for yourself.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Excellent thread and one that needs to be rolled out regularly

I've been reading about astronaut sightings for years and read most of the links in the thread many times. The Internet is awash with accounts, 'transcripts' and recollections by people who knew astronauts.

And here and there, attempts to figure out what's behind the stories, in prosaic terms:

www.jamesoberg.com...

Originally posted by Whisper67
I'm reading the whole thread, every post, but felt compelled to respond to this post immediately. The ONLY reference I make to Otto Binder is indeed that comment about Armstrong clutching Aldrins arm - the actual quote was heard by hundreds of ham radio operators. I do not use him as a "source" for this quote or any of the other ham radio interceptions....

This leads you to believe this is a hoax? Your quote: "This leads me to believe that this entire episode is either a hoax or it is simply an elaboration of a true event that has picked up details in the retelling"

I am personally offended to these accusations. To read your post it sounds as if you are declaring me, as OP, a hoaxer and embellishing these quotes.

Well, not mentioning that Binder was an accomplished science fiction writer -- and he did a few books on UFOs in his later years -- and never was employed by NASA (he volunteered on a spaceflight education project briefly), and not mentioning that 'hundreds' of hams did NOT pick up these alleged conversations (not a single ham has ever made that claim), you are being a little careless in what you are encouraging your buddies to believe, wouldn't you admit? How does that offend you?

reply to post by JimOberg


This is very interesting info Jim.

Almost a cut and paste job....with a word or two changed to protect the obvious.

POST

Interesting info to say the least.

Maybe its time to revise those scripts a little bit more?

Thanks for the info tho!


Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Excellent thread and one that needs to be rolled out regularly

I've been reading about astronaut sightings for years and read most of the links in the thread many times. The Internet is awash with accounts, 'transcripts' and recollections by people who knew astronauts.

And here and there, attempts to figure out what's behind the stories, in prosaic terms:

www.jamesoberg.com...

Is everything so "prosaic" to you lately? Do you think that we could get those unaltered original audio recordings of the entire Apollo series as well as the entire unedited transcripts of the Apollo series so we can put this all to rest?


Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by mystiq
Yes, not even the words or testimony of astronauts is considered valid with some people. No wonder this world is in such a mess.

Scott Carpenter: "At no time, when the astronauts were in space were they alone: there was a constant surveillance by UFOs."

Major Gordon Cooper -- One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, Major Gordon Cooper told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule. The UFO was real and solid, because it was picked up by Muchea's tracking radar. Cooper's sighting was reported by the National Broadcast Company, which was covering the flight step by step; but when Cooper landed, reporters were told that they would not be allowed to question him about the UFO sighting. Major Cooper was a firm believer in UFOs. .....

Yeah, those spacecrafts are just christmas stories.

Mystiq, please approach such extraordinary claims with some caution and independent investigation. You might find that Scott Carpenter has denounced that quotation "of his" as a fraud, and that Gordon Cooper did the same regarding the story of 'his' Mercury-9 UFO. If you can't filter out even the most egregious falsified data posted on pro-UFO websites (or anywhere else), any conclusions you reach are going to be pretty useless. Please try harder, there ARE resources to help.

Originally posted by SlinkyDFW
....and the infamous: "we have a bogey...." I highly doubt there were rock formations flying through the air. There is something up there.

Then I guess your internet search didn't find this:

Astronaut Frank Borman Clarifies Gemini 7 UFO Myth
From Stig Agermose
Posted 7-14-98

Note - The following is an excerpt from an article "Flying the Gusmobile" about the Gemini missions. Published on the site of "Air and Space" magazine July 14, 1998. www.airspacemag.com:80...


(snipped)

At almost twice the length of Gemini 5, Commander Frank Borman's Gemini 7 mission may have been even more trying, but it grabbed the attention of at least one Hollywood producer.

"Right after we got into orbit we were supposed to 'station keep' or fly formation with the booster," Borman says. "We were flying formation and taking photographs and infrared measurements and I started calling it a 'bogey,' which is an old fighter pilot term. Well, a lot of the UFO freaks on the ground picked this up and said we had seen a UFO because we had referred to our booster as a bogey.

"Just this past year I got a call from a producer at 'Unsolved Mysteries' and they said, 'We read your account about your seeing a UFO on Gemini 7 and would you come on the program?' I told them: 'I'd love to come on your program because I'd love to straighten that out.'

"I explained what it was I saw, and I said, 'I don't think there were UFOs,' and the producer said, 'Well, I'm not sure we want you on the program.' "

Originally posted by RFBurns
Ham operators did in fact tune in to NASA transmissions on their rigs.

It pretty much stands to reason, that someone out there, some old ham timer, or relative of one, may have some of those recordings lying around in some storage box somewhere.

Working lunar transmissions was a stretch for 1969-era hams, as they described in detail in ARRL publications. Those who did so used some ingenious and amazingly large dish antennas -- and they exchanged experiences and advice with each other actively, by mail, telephone, and at conferences. So everybody who worked lunar listening knew each other, at least in the US. Dick Flagg of Gainesville, FL, was one of the leaders of this small band, and he knew of everybody who was attempting it (many never had any success). He picked up voice from the Apollo-15 LM, for example, as I recall, using a backyard dish -- deep in the noise, but recognizable.

He told me that he and his associates were mighty amused by the stories from Binder and others that hundreds of hams draped a wire out their bedroom windows and suddenly heard clear Apollo voice transmissions about UFOs. He got a big laugh out of that story.

The assumption has got to be that anybody else picking up Apollo voice, with these claimed transmissions, needs to have their existence proven, not assumed until disproven. RF's genuine experience along these lines can be helpful in defining how big a rig would have been needed, so as to help limit the number of possible participants -- and to explain why they wouldn't have been in touch with Flagg.

Until then, the whole story of 'secret hams recording secret signals' has to stand as a hoax, without any real evidence for it. And RF's intuition is correct here -- if somebody stepped forward now forty years later with a voice recording of a claimed reception, even with apparently old logbooks and photos of a rig long since sent to the scrap heap, the going-in assumption would have to be it was the 'Hitler Diaries' kind of hoax all over again. And why shouldn't that be the going-in assumption?

reply to post by JimOberg


Jim , I realize you have a job too do

Jim , I realize you have a passion for NASA

Jim, Does it ever bother you when you discredit men who have

offered to put their life in harm,s way for their country

There is no arguing that you are well spoken in all

aspects of NASA happenings

But you have been fortunate to be able to do so from

the comfort of your office here on Earth

I hope you find comfort in the work you do

But you will always be just a lacky for the real boses of

Nasa , and never get to hang with the Cool Kids

The real Heroes , The Astronauts

Originally posted by Seany
Jim , I realize you have a job too do

Just once I'd like somebody to send me the charge number and address for my debunking invoices -- and there's a 10% finders fee in it for you, whenever I eventually get paid....

But I don't understand which astronauts I'm supposed to have 'discredited' in the posts above. Please be specific.



[edit on 21-3-2009 by JimOberg]

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by RFBurns
Ham operators did in fact tune in to NASA transmissions on their rigs.

It pretty much stands to reason, that someone out there, some old ham timer, or relative of one, may have some of those recordings lying around in some storage box somewhere.

Working lunar transmissions was a stretch for 1969-era hams, as they described in detail in ARRL publications. Those who did so used some ingenious and amazingly large dish antennas -- and they exchanged experiences and advice with each other actively, by mail, telephone, and at conferences. So everybody who worked lunar listening knew each other, at least in the US. Dick Flagg of Gainesville, FL, was one of the leaders of this small band, and he knew of everybody who was attempting it (many never had any success). He picked up voice from the Apollo-15 LM, for example, as I recall, using a backyard dish -- deep in the noise, but recognizable.

Not really that difficult at all, considering most of the Ham's used high gain directional "yagi" type antennas, and sometimes even combining several of them onto a grid assembly which in turn was attached to a pivot mounting, usually home made, that would allow the operator to turn that antenna cluster towards any point in the sky. This was necessary for Hams to work "MoonBounce" transmissions, since the Moon does tend to move and not stay stationary like a satellite.

Originally posted by JimOberg
He told me that he and his associates were mighty amused by the stories from Binder and others that hundreds of hams draped a wire out their bedroom windows and suddenly heard clear Apollo voice transmissions about UFOs. He got a big laugh out of that story.

I would too! However, sometimes draping a wire out the window, with an appropriate high-gain hetrodyne receiver, could work quite well, especially in the 170Mhz band and lower. And by adding a well built antenna tuner, you could peak that strech of wire to resonate extremely effectively on the frequency of choice. I doubt these setups got incredible clean reception, but I would not dismiss that they picked up reasonable receptions of NASA transmissions, especially if the Moon was in the background, those signals would bounce off the Moon and come back to the Earth, and even byond the Earth, depending on how much "footprint" of the signal got bounced back out from the Moon.

Originally posted by JimOberg
The assumption has got to be that anybody else picking up Apollo voice, with these claimed transmissions, needs to have their existence proven, not assumed until disproven. RF's genuine experience along these lines can be helpful in defining how big a rig would have been needed, so as to help limit the number of possible participants -- and to explain why they wouldn't have been in touch with Flagg.

As I stated, with the appropriately built or purchased set of yagi type antennas, and combining them, they would be even more sensitive than a dish, and much easier to handle in a combined manner.

There were thousands of Ham operators tuned in to Sputnik and tuned in to Vanguard 1 when they were launched. Vanguard 1 had two frequencies that Ham's tuned into, 108.0Mhz and 108.3Mhz, and the transmitter on Vanguard 1 was a mere 10mW (milliwatts). The two frequenices were used to send down temperature readings, ascertained by the difference in beat frequency measurements between the two.

Never underestimate a radio engineer. "Radio Men Do It With Frequency"

Originally posted by JimOberg
Until then, the whole story of 'secret hams recording secret signals' has to stand as a hoax, without any real evidence for it. And RF's intuition is correct here -- if somebody stepped forward now forty years later with a voice recording of a claimed reception, even with apparently old logbooks and photos of a rig long since sent to the scrap heap, the going-in assumption would have to be it was the 'Hitler Diaries' kind of hoax all over again. And why shouldn't that be the going-in assumption?

Somewhere out there in Ham land, in someone's basement, or in a storage shed, some young Ham radio operator inspired by his grandfather, who may have passed down their stuff, there may be those old captured audio transmissions.

If I can find extremely rare 1950's era visible automobile chassis models that sell for over 800 bucks on ebay today, I am sure somewhere out there, there are some tapes sitting in a box just waiting to be found.

It is not byond the possibility to find some of those recordings either Jim.


Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by RFBurns
Ham operators did in fact tune in to NASA transmissions on their rigs.

No question -- and they still do. Mazel tov!

Thanks for the informative and credible posting.

It comes down to your faith that information that will validate your views is out there and will someday vindicate you. Which I guess is an admission that the information that will vindicate you hasn't yet surfaced.

Old 'space stuff' DOES sometimes take a long time to surface, I gotta admit. I recall a news story about 1962 (I collected clippings for scrapbooks in High School) about the US Navy 'coming close' to launching a small satellite from an airplane. Then - silence. Never mentioned by any other space publication.

Years went by. Finally, decades later, the engineers in the project retired and dug out their boxes of old papers, and started talking. The project had been real, if (as so often at the dawn of the 'Space Age') pretty flakey. Several attempts had been made from an F-4 (as I recall), most blew up quickly, but one rocket disappeared over the horizon and an hour and a half later a radio station in Hawaii thought they heard brief transmissions. It might have worked. The story was eventually widely published, particularly in 'Spaceflight' and 'Quest' magazines.

But sometimes the passage of time also just lets old rumors and misperceptions fester and mutate. A large number of US military personal in the 1959-1960 period, monitoring Soviet spacecraft, thought they heard indications of pilots on board those supposedly unmanned vehicles. Decades later, they told their stories. But the basis for the rumors had originally been tape-recorded radio test messages, not living, breathing pilots, as it became clear in hindsight especially after the blessed collapse of the USSR.

So it's worth looking for strange space history chapters, still, and it's critical to be as initially skeptical of decades-old memories as with contemporary rumors. RF, you and I are old enough to encounter this memory-morphing process even in our own minds (at least I have), so caution is the watch-word, especially so if you are searching for anything you can use to say "I-told-you-so" to disbelievers late in life.

Watch the skies! But don't consequently fall into any pitfalls while strolling down memory lane.



[edit on 21-3-2009 by JimOberg]